Apple releases employee diversity statistics, CEO Cook says numbers not satisfactory

[davislane1]

Did you ever hear the term, "affirmative action"?

I was going to define scarcity and proceed with a list of diversity programs at major schools, but I suppose that's a decent enough example.

Alternatively, I can quote the thread article: "As CEO, I’m not satisfied with the numbers on this page."

This sentiment has been echoed in many of the tech industry diversity summaries. Since the numbers primarily deal with race, there is only one logical conclusion: too few minorities are occupying a limited supply of positions. By definition, fixing this "problem" requires discrimination against whites.

Now that we've done our part, demonstrate how discrimination against whites isn't happening.

 

[captaincranky]

Alternatively, I can quote the thread article: "As CEO, I’m not satisfied with the numbers on this page.".

Well, I rephrased that statement to read, "as a white Anglo Saxon protestant, I'm saying we need more diversity, as long as I keep my job. So, screw everybody under me, as long as I pull off this sound bite and look good doing it".

All I can say is, today, you're simply not allowed to dislike minorities, but they're allowed to dislike you.

 

[ET3D]

My theory is based on history and documented group behavior patterns. In humans, different groups have different identities and cultures. When these groups are forced to compete with one another for the same resources, conflict necessarily emerges.

So you're on the speculation side, as I figured.

We're talking about people of different cultures working together in the same company, not in conflict, and apparently research shows this has benefits over a homogeneous group.

No, I'm saying that forcing the issue is counterproductive. Diversity is a fundamentally unworkable system. Real differences exist between races, ethnicities, social classes, and genders.

These differences are typically minor, especially when talking about people in the same country / area and in the context of work. These differences are also typically strengths when put together, similarly to research showing that a mother and father behave differently but these differences help the development of the children.

 

[captaincranky]

similarly to research showing that a mother and father behave differently but these differences help the development of the children.

Wow, how much a credit hour did that breakthrough cost you?

Men and women behave differently. A baby does better with a mother and a father. That's real cutting edge stuff...:yawn:...:rolleyes; ...:fart:

 

[captaincranky]

So you're on the speculation side, as I figured..

No actually, we're tired of listening to your sh!t.

We're tired of listening to the most vulgar crap, racist, "music" (=rants), the hip hop community is dead set on inflicting upon us.

And please don't go on about "peace, harmony, and brotherhood". Every human relationship has a dominant and submissive partner. Every class, race, or religion strives to subjugate others, and make them bend to their will. It's an extension of our killer instinct. Except now we've got that tamed to a bunch of blather and lies behind one another's backs at some office water cooler.

All I can say is, "thank God the Spanish brought Jesus to the Aztecs". (sarcasm)

And thank God we introduced the atomic bomb to Japan. (actual gratitude)

 

[davislane1]

So you're on the speculation side, as I figured.

You would probably do well to learn the difference between theory and speculation.

These differences are typically minor, especially when talking about people in the same country / area and in the context of work.

Like the minor differences that lead to the cleansing of the Native American population during the Western expansion? Or perhaps the minor differences that existed between the Vikings and natives that lead to the conquering of the British Isles? Or perhaps the minor differences that existed between European Whites, American Indians, and African Blacks that lead to to the legal doctrine of fractional manhood and the one drop rule? Or perhaps the minor differences that lead to social unrest in British occupied India? Or perhaps the cultural differences that contributed to Apartheid in Africa and segregation in the United States? Or perhaps the various on-going ethnic conflicts in Africa? There's also the "trivial" cultural differences that lead to the American Revolution and Civil War.

I could continue citing history ad nauseam, but that would be an indefinite exercise in the elementary. I'd much rather talk about genetics, psychology, and cognition, especially since you brought up this gem:

These differences are also typically strengths when put together, similarly to research showing that a mother and father behave differently but these differences help the development of the children.

Men and women play complementary roles to one another. Cultures and belief systems do not. IQ differences, the genetic predispositions and differences of various races and ethnic groups, fundamental differences in value systems, and cognitive differences between the sexes are anything but inconsequential. Why do you think they ask for racial information in medicine, or why people, to this day, self-segregate into homogenous communities?

It would appear that the only person speculating here is you, as you seem to be completely oblivious to the other side of the diversity coin.

No actually, we're tired of listening to your sh!t.

We're tired of listening to the most vulgar crap, racist, "music" (=rants), the hip hop community is dead set on inflicting upon us.

The irony here is that you (ET3D) can't even see the animosity forced diversity is causing right in front your eyes. Every diversity article that has appeared on this blog as been met with near unanimous disapproval. "Qualifications, not color!" has been the mantra of the discussion. Similar demands for justice were voiced when the Brendan Eich and Julie Ann Horvath stories were posted here a while back.

Worse yet, not only are you apparently unwilling to do anything beyond a Google search to educate yourself on the issue, you openly criticize people who disagree with you for being ill-versed in the topic, in spite of clear evidence to the contrary. This not only breeds resentment for the "underrepresented" masses – whomever that might be – but also towards people like yourself.

Differences don't make people stronger, they drive them apart.

 

[ET3D]

You would probably do well to learn the difference between theory and speculation.

There's not much difference. Without direct proof theory is just someone's way of saying "my speculation has some basis". But speculation always has some basis, and people with theories tend to pick their evidence out of all possible evidence (even to the contrary), which basically means that their theories are just speculation. People who test their theories are scientists, and while science also has biases, at least something that's been tested has more weight that something which hasn't.

Men and women play complementary roles to one another. Cultures and belief systems do not. IQ differences, the genetic predispositions and differences of various races and ethnic groups, fundamental differences in value systems, and cognitive differences between the sexes are anything but inconsequential.

First of all, I think it's a good start that you say that men and woman's roles are complementary. You might go from that to realising that their roles at work can also be complementary, and therefore that it could make sense for a mixed gender group to function better than a single gender group.

Secondly, the whole "race" thing is stupid. A black American is a lot closer to a white American than he is to a black African in terms of culture and values. A white New Yorker likely has more in common with a black New Yorker than with a white from Alabama. A group of programmers probably have more in common with each other regardless of "race" than with farmers of the same "race".

We're not talking "take people from different countries and stick them in a room". We're talking about talking people from the same general area, same occupation, similar education, just different "races". How would what you say (examples of animosity between people from segregated societies) be relevant to this?

 

[captaincranky]

...[ ]....First of all, I think it's a good start that you say that men and woman's roles are complementary. You might go from that to realising that their roles at work can also be complementary, and therefore that it could make sense for a mixed gender group to function better than a single gender group.

First of all, maintaining a home, is "work". And second, I think that gender roles were solved by evolution, long before any sociologist ever had the hubris to draw a paycheck stating the obvious. You continually belaboring that point, is emblematic of the fact that you're suffering from, "post adolescent intellectual pretense", nothing more.

How would an Asian seamstress and a jack hammer operator, "complete" each other on a construction site? How about in a non union sweatshop sewing women's panties? Spoiler alert, they wouldn't.

So really, you're publishing pseudo scientific, minority dogma, you enjoy to no end hearing yourself spout it, and we're still tired of listening to it.

 

[captaincranky]

Secondly, the whole "race" thing is stupid. A black American is a lot closer to a white American than he is to a black African in terms of culture and values. A white New Yorker likely has more in common with a black New Yorker than with a white from Alabama. A group of programmers probably have more in common with each other regardless of "race" than with farmers of the same "race".

This is utter and complete nonsense. If humans were to come to grips with the fact they are of the animal kingdom, and attach the same classifications to their, "races", as they do to every other animal, the "races" would become, "sub species", and at the very most optimistic, "breeds". "Races" is a self aggrandizing term coined for political correctness. Oh..., "races", I guess this means we're going somewhere! Don't stop, until you're at the top of the food chain!

The simple fact is, there's as much physiological difference between the, "races" as there are between the sub species of, "Panthera Tigris".

And don't get me started on, "breeds"and "inbreeding". That would all too easily explain why Negroes get sickle cell anemia, and Jews get Tay-Sachs disease. (And that only in Ashkenazi jews).

As far as your sorry rant about "cultural closeness", Negroes from Liberia, (that's in Africa), come to the US, (mostly illegally), with the "hip hop" culture thoroughly ingrained, and sell the same drugs as those sold by African Americans.

The only detectable differences, are an accent, and African Negroes, steal US automobiles, then send them back to Africa.

Now, I know these thing because I live among them. It isn't some fantasy generated while humming, "The Age of Aquarius" to myself, while I'm the bathroom.

 

[ET3D]

How would an Asian seamstress and a jack hammer operator, "complete" each other on a construction site?

Why would an Asian seamstress work on a construction site? And where is the jackhammer operator from? I think you're losing it.

In any case, differences complement each other by offering different point of view and different abilities.

Now, that doesn't always work, and doesn't always matter. Certainly for jobs which require little thought this probably doesn't help. Low income people also tend to be more conservative, and conservative people don't get along well with people who aren't like them, so it would certainly be a problem. So I don't think diversity would work well when applied to blue collar work.

But at a high-tech company like Apple, it's certainly possible that different point of views and different ways of thought could help make things better. Certainly research shows that diverse teams work better, but it's also possible that diversity isn't the real reason. It's possible for example that because diverse companies naturally attract more liberal people, and research shows that liberal people are more creative than conservatives, that the success of the team is due to being more creative by nature of being liberal, rather than because of being diverse.

 

[ET3D]

I gave it some more thought, and I think that in the end both views are valid and hinge on socioeconomic status. For the working class, where people are more traditionalists and conservative, the view of distinct cultures is true and "diversity" probably won't work well. Middle class people, on the other hand, might have already encountered others of different colours as equals over the years (while studying or working), and while they might see differences, these differences are much smaller, and so these people would naturally come to an equally correct view that people of different origins working together is not a problem.

 

[captaincranky]

Oops, I must have come to close to telling the truth. II see you two moderators can't handle the truth either.

 

[davislane1]

Oops, I must have come to close to telling the truth. II see you two moderators can't handle the truth either.

See, now I'm curious.

 

[captaincranky]

See, now I'm curious.

Yeah, I should have copied that post to the clipboard and PMed it to you.

Ee, Tee, three Dee-pio, didn't account for an entire class of people in his magnum opus on diversity. He should hop on the trolley and come smoke some crack with said class.

 

[ET3D]

I missed several classes in that post. Pity I didn't get to read your reply. I'm sure it was very cranky.