Booting problems with new system

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SNGX1275

SNGX1275

Posts: 10,615   +467
I'm putting together a system for my Aunt and its having some problems I can't figure out.

Motherboard: ASRock 775-VSTA
CPU: Pentium D 805 2.66Ghz
RAM: 512Mb Corsair Value Select DDR2
HD: WD 160 Gig
Vid: ATi 9600 Pro
DVD: Some Lite-On Burner
PSU: Antec Smartpower 350W

What happens is I power on the system and the cpu fan and case fan spin for about .1 seconds (yes that short, not a few seconds or 1 second). I pull the power completely and let it sit for a while and then it might boot. Once its running as long as I don't shut down or hit the power switch it seems to run indefinately. I can reboot and it still works. Just can't shut down.

I'm thinking perhaps its a bad capacitor on the motherboard but I'm not 100% sure. There are a few other problems that may or may not be related.

I originally put it together last weekend, and forgot the spacers when installing the motherboard. The system was powering on and shutting off about 2 seconds later not long enough to post. So I thought maybe it was shorting out (after I realized I forgot the spacers). I put the spacers in and was intermittenly having the same problem, then got to thinking it might be overheating and thermally shutting down. A check on the heat sink showed that maybe that was it, only 3 of the 4 pegs were completely through the motherboard. I got the system to boot though after playing with the heatsink a bit, but bios was reporting cpu temps in the low 60s (C) so I turned it off.
I've had a pretty busy week outside of computers so I didn't mess with it all of last week until today. I found out the heat sink problem and applied some cheap thermal paste I got from radio shack (after scrapign off the damaged thermal pad that came with the hsf and processor).

When I was able to get the system to boot I began the Windows install, after it formatted the 160 gig right after 100% it said that it was unable to format. So I rebooted with the WD disk in and then the DVD drive was toast, drive would shake like it was off balance when spinning up the disk, and made some wierd noises when trying to access. So I had to hook up another burner I had to install Windows. Windows then installed fine and worked, processor temps are pretty hot, I can't tell what they are because I can't find any software to monitor on this motherboard. It did lock during a burn in with Sandra running processor and multimedia tests, but it will finish single ones without locking - I am pretty sure that that is a CPU temp issue..

So is this a capacitor on the motherboard issue? Is this a power supply issue? Am I just having incredibly bad luck? What next?
 
This could be caused by a number of things. Here`s what I would do to try and diagnose the problem.

Disconnect the hard drive and see if the system attempts to boot from cold. If it does, then the hard drive may well be the culprit. If not, see below.

Disconnect anything not required to run the system and see if you still have the same problem.

If you do, try another psu and test again.

Still no change? Take off the heatsink and clean off the old thermal paste using a little isopropyl alcohol etc. Apply a very thing layer of new thermal paste to the cpu die and reattach the heatsink. See what happens. Check the temps in bios.

Still got the same problem?

This is when I`d start to suspect a faulty mobo. Possibly a lazy component, of a dry solder joint, or as you said a faulty cap.

Regards Howard :)
 
CPU temperature monitoring

I think i understood from you looooooong post that the CPU is toasting :) , but how did you know this, you didn't mention... Did you put your hand close to it or something?

Anyway, the fan speed should be arround 4000 rpm. >> See its status in bios. About the heat, if you want a monitor for it inside windows, i think you should find some tool on the CD of your motherboard.

If you can't find it, here's a free tool to do so, i just hope, as i really don't know, that it SHOULD WORK ON YOU PC: HERE IT IS: SPEEDFAN

Now, i suggest you bring a good fan. CPUs that are sold with fans are called BOX package or something like this. Since you already bought your CPU, then, try to get a very good FAN for this precious part of your PC (it's the most precious part inside it!)...

Normal temps are around 30-45 C not F :giddy: . I think it shouldn't increase more than that. If lower, then, this is just perfect.

I said what i know and i hope i've helped you ...
 
Howard: I've disconnected HD and CD Drive, makes no difference. I'll probably pull the heatsink and fan tomorrow again and repaste. Once I got it into windows the motherboard cd had a little video on how to install it. I noticed they used what I would have considered way too much paste. I put just a bit on and smeared it with my finger (through some seran wrap).

I can't really try another power supply without pulling the one out of my main PC, which would be a huge pita so I'd like to avoid that.

Zeratul: I'm sure the CPU isn't the main fault here, infact its likely not the fault at all (anymore - it may have been last weekend) because it powers off way too quick to be an overheat shutdown - I say this because I think it was thermally shutting down last weekend, and that took about 1-2 seconds not .1.

When it does power up the temps are reported in the bios in the upper 40s to low 50s. Also in the BIOS I set the fan to kick into hyperdrive (not what its called in the bios) when the temps get to 65C so I can tell when I get it that hot from within windows because the fan sounds like a jet. If its below 65C the fan runs slow and is very quiet. I can get the temps to 65+ by running the CPU Multimedia benchmark 3 times in a row in Sandra 07.

Tried SpeedFan, Tried mbprobe, and Motherboard Monitor 5. One was reporting 241C and another was reporting around half that, which even at 120C is way off, and I forget what the other was. I tried changing sensors they either didn't report anything or reported what the motherboard sensor was reporting: 33-35C which I imagine is correct.

I bought the retail Pentium D 805, it came with the intel heat sink and fan. From what I read its not real good, but should be sufficient to keep idle temps in the upper 30s at least.

Temps are not likely the problem with booting though. Processor is going to get a hell of a lot hotter loading Windows than it is .1 seconds after its turned on.

I turned the system off around the time of my initial post and I *think* I switched off the psu but left the power cord in. I wasn't able to get it to boot after waiting 20 minutes. I then pulled the power cord and made sure (I really should be taking notes when I do things) the switch was off. But I toggled it several times and repeatedly pressed the power button on the case. Waited 15 or 20 minutes and plugged the cord back in flipped the PSU switch and hit the case power button and it came to life. Its been on since then, I heated up the processor with benchmarks until the fan kicked into hyperdrive and let it cool back down to quiet, system seems to be stable unless I actually TRY to overheat it. But like I said I'm going to pull the heatsink tomorrow and clean it and reapply paste and hopefully that will take care of that issue.
 
I'm astonished from this "problem" and really can't figure out a solution for it. I admit its really really strange and VERY ANNOYING as well .

I just hope it's a matter of the paste only!
 
Update (I took notes this time :))

I haven't pulled the heatsink yet, I think I might actually pull the PSU out of this system I'm using now and put it in the troublesome system, at least that for sure eliminates the PSU if I do that.

But what I did do today was:
* Shut Down from within Windows after leaving the system up all night. Tried to boot it after the shut down and it didn't. So I let it set for 1 hour with everything untouched like you would a functional PC. Left the power cord in and the PSU switch on. Tried to boot after 1 hour of that and it didn't boot.

* I then pulled the power cord but left the PSU switch on. 1 hour later I came back put the power cord in and hit the button on the front of the case, and no boot.

* I then left the PSU power cord plugged in, but flipped the switch off. Came back like 3 hours later hit the button on the front and it booted right up.

Does this narrow the PSU/Motherboard debate down any?

Double Edit/Update
Damnit I hit post reply after typing out a huge edit to this and lost it all. Not typing all that again so here goes the short version:

Tore the Enermax Noisetaker 470W from my main PC (awesome psu btw) and put it in the problematic system. It was a pain in the *** and I had to break out a hacksaw to avoid completely disassembling my good system (I kept the shavings away from important stuff). Got it installed in my aunt's pc and it works!, gone through 3 hard boots now and its booted up just fine every time.

Now I need ultra fast recommendations for new (quality) 350-450W PSUs, if nobody speaks up before tomorrow am for me I'm ordering an Enermax.
 
Have you tried checking your power supply's voltages? Either in windows, bios, or with a multimeter? If it's really low, high, or fluctuating a lot then it could be the problem. It would seem to either be a power supply or motherboard problem, and since not much on a motherboard is (easily) fixable, I'd try checking the power supply first. I doubt bad ram would cause your problem, but you could run memtest 86+ just in case if you like.

What spacers did you forget btw? Do you mean the motherboard standoffs, or those little plastic or cardboard "insulating" rings that some cases come with?

Also, if you "reboot" from windows will it reboot, or will it shut off and stay off?

Good luck, I know it's no fun when it doesn't work as planned.

vnf4ultra
 
VNF - Forgot the standoffs. Windows would reboot just fine, the system would just not cold boot shortly after it had been turned off (details of that study in previous post).
 
I`m glad you`ve found the culprit mate.

Antec psu`s are usually very good. You`ve obviously been unlucky and got a bad one.

Maybe this thread HERE will be of help.

Regards Howard :)
 
Thanks for the link howard, I had checked that link before. That plus the 71 newegg reviews seem to indicate that FORTRON one is good. So, reluctantly, I ordered it - should be here Thursday (Wed if they ship today). Thing looks ugly as hell, at least it will be out of sight.
 
Update - The PSU came in today, it works. But the thing is backwards. The fan on the bottom blows air down INTO the case. Thats terrible design, I may open it up and switch the wires so the fan spins the other direction.

Also I fixed the high temps. I just put more paste on than I had before, temps are still pretty high 40s idle, 60s full load. But the thing remains stable at full load so I'm not going to screw with it anymore.

Now just to RMA the DVD Burner (lite on dvd burners suck I've decided - had 4 die on me).
 
That`s weird. I`ve never seen a psu blow air into the case before :confused:

At least your system is stable now, although those temps do seem a little on the high side. Maybe get some better cooling in there.

Regards Howard :)
 
Probably if the damn PSU didn't exhaust onto the heat sink of the processor they would be lower :p
 
Definitely won`t help lol.

It might be an idea to contact the psu maker and find out if this is part of the design or not.

Regards Howard :)
 
I skimmed the newegg reviews, and a few people had commented on it, and then one dude said no they were just putting them in wrong. But I can assure you this is installed correctly. The sticker for the Voltage and Amperage is also upside down when installed correctly.
 
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