Cooling effectiveness.

By CMH
Jun 13, 2005
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  1. This should have been in a new thread (thanks rik for suggesting). Anyway, was testing the direction of fans and the effectiveness of changing it. Please add more, and give as many details as possible on how the test was done, where the fans are placed, and one thing I missed: ambient temperature (if possible). Not really a big issue, since its the difference in temperature that we want, but might show others how an extra fan or 2 might help (or those PCI slot fans, maybe another thread for those?)


    This is how I did it:
    I just ran the comp with CPU fan at min, ran 1xtoast.exe (nice little prog to use all CPU power) and ran 3DMark 2005 with that (to use up graphics). Takes a couple of runs to meet the 30 min requirement. Had Everest running in the background on sensor page to get the reading as soon as 30 mins is up.

    Without doing anything, I turned the CPU fan to max, did everything again for 30 mins, and recorded the temp.

    Switched the fan so its now on exhale. (Found that I had to rethread the fan to do that)

    Repeat.

    Results:
    Fan on inhale:
    CPU fan running on min: 31C
    CPU fan running on max: 26C
    Case temp from case sensor: 24.5C
    GPU: unreadable, kept jumping from 33-64C. Unreliable so I'll just dump this data.

    Fan on exhale:
    CPU fan running on min: 31-32C
    CPU fan running on max: 26C
    Case temp from case sensor: 24.7C

    Conclusion: Not much of a difference, but it is clear that for me at least, having the case fan at exhale doesn't seem to lower the temp, but increases it very little. Of course, this test has to be repeated a few times before we can make some solid conclusions.

    As I see it, my comp even at max load doesn't really produce much heat, especially in winter. I might just wait for summer to come up to re-do the test, but someone else is welcome to try it and share the results.
  2. Rik

    Rik Banned Posts: 4,985

    I dont have any benchmarking or burnin software but for general information, heres what im running.

    80cm fans x2 in the side blowing in.
    80cm fans x2 in the front blowing in.
    slot cooler by graphics card blowing out.
    PSU 80cm fans x2 blowing out.
    Cpu watercooler.
    80cm fan x1 at the top of my case blowing out.


    Temps at idle.

    Mobo 27 degrees c
    processor 40 degrees c
    VGA 23.5 degrees c
    PSU 43 degrees c
    Case 28.5 degrees c

    All fans are running from my coolermaster aerogate II controller at minimum speed including PSU fans as i made my own plug and socket for them and a temp sensor.

    About 6 months ago i went from a midi tower case to a full tower case with 6 bays and found that everything runs cooler in it, Unfortuneatly i didnt have the aerogate in the old case so i have no temp data for it but i do remember that the mobo temp was always over 45 degrees c.
  3. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    Is that PCI slot blower any good?

    Anyway, I left the top fan on exhale overnight, and I found more dramatic results. These aren't really under test conditions, but stuff I noticed.

    Idle temps (under min CPU fan speed) were alot higher with this fan on exhale than on inhale. By alot, I mean about 3-4C.

    Here's my theory: if you don't have enough exhaust fans, having the top one for exhaust is alot better, you've actually got some hot air up there to exhale.

    In my case, my comp is running really cool (leave them 24/7, can't have them running like ovens). My exhaust temp is not much higher than my inhale (say, 2-3C). With only one inhale blowing perpendicularly to the surface of the mb, its not generating enough airflow around the components, might probably be better if I had front fans to do that, and therefore the top fan has done a good job in generating airlow around the mb.

    Hope that was clear. Now I'll change it back to inhale.
  4. Rik

    Rik Banned Posts: 4,985

    The pci slot cooler made a huge difference, i used to use an nvidia geforce2 which used to overheat and cause xp to lock up. The card got that hot that it caused everything else to heat up too. You could say i had a hot spot. Putting the slot cooler (which was a rather thoughtful birthday present from a friend) by it stopped the overheating instantly. I now have a more modern ATI 7000 which doesnt generate anywhere as much heat as the old card but i still have the slot cooler by it, just in case.
  5. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    I just added another 80mm inhale fan to my 2nd and 3rd computer (they're running with only 1 80mm exhale fan before). I situated them in front, around the HDD bays.

    I found through Everest that my CPU temperature saw an immediate reduction of about 10C. Been running for about 4-5 hours now, and I don't expect it to change.

    People running single 80mm exhaust fans: time to add an inhale fan, seriously.


    p.s. Check the power source of the new fan, I feel ripped for buying 6x80mm fans, and found that the power heads were from Mars or something, 4pin, something like the female power for FDDs. Had nowhere to plug them to and in the end had to chop the heads off and connect them a little dangerously to one of the molex plugs. If you guys don't hear from me again, probably they caught fire, and I've died :p
  6. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 8,417   +215

    Those small fan connectors usually are for plugging into the motherboard. For what it's worth, you could have bought adapters to convert a standard molex to the small connector.
  7. SOcRatEs

    SOcRatEs TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,382

    I agree!
    I'm using two as well.
    I used about 12"x4" diameter of dryer coil vinyl ducting and zip ties.
    (Hardware store)
    I removed the cpu heatsink and fan so I could attach one end
    of the ducting to it with zip ties just below the fan. (made it easier
    to re-install heatsink and fan with ducting on it)

    I replaced the side panel fan with the 80mm (from kit) and connected
    the other end of ducting to it. I'm matching cpu fan & side panel fan
    air flow direction, exhausting cpu heat directly out the side panel.

    The blower (mini squirrel cage fan) I installed on back panel and run
    at 2518 RPM. Also exhaust.

    Version EVEREST v2.00.335
    Computer FARTMACHINE

    Sensor Properties:
    Sensor Type Asus ASB100 Bach (SMBus 2Dh)
    GPU Sensor Type National LM89 (NV-I2C 4Ch)
    Motherboard Name Asus A7N8X-E

    Temperatures:
    Motherboard 24 °C (75 °F)
    CPU 49 °C (120 °F)
    GPU 51 °C (124 °F)
    GPU Ambient 42 °C (108 °F)
    Seagate ST3120026A 30 °C (86 °F)
    WDC WD800JD-75JNA0 35 °C (95 °F)

    Cooling Fans:
    CPU 2344 RPM
    Chassis 2481 RPM (side panel)
    Power Supply 2518 RPM (back panel blower fan)

    CMH
    Do you think I should reverse my flow direction,
    Just for good measure?
  8. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    Sorry about dissappearing for some time, I decided to some some cable sleeving, which became to total disaster cos I decided to trim the lengths of some wire.

    From your description, this is what I gather:

    You've got 2 inhale going straight into your CPU.
    you got 1 exhale in your PSU.

    Sounds like you've got alot of inhale going to that CPU. Is that necessary? you're now leaving your graphics unattended. I believe to reduce the temp, you'd want some airflow, which you lack at the moment.

    Maybe you can try this config, and test it out:
    Connect your ducting to the back of your chassis. CPU fan now is an intake (direct to CPU of course)
    Leave the side panel fan as intake. (this might help cool your GPU, assuming its somewhere close)
    and the PSU you really can't do much about.

    From your HDD temps, I can see that you've done something clever, getting it to run at that low temp (I'm assuming these aren't idle temps). I've always got problems whenever I'm transfering huge files, temps go up so high that transfer rates are 1mbps. I've since left a space between the 2 (with the FDD between them) and its worked fine since.

    CPU and GPU temps are alright at the moment. A tad high, but its designed for about that temp, so no worries there. I'd check the ambient temp in the chassis, I'd dare bet your current configuration you can feel a little heat if you'd stick your hand right into the chassis immediately after shutting down. My other 2 comps do, explaining their idle temps at about 41C. The current one I'm using hardly feel any different (2 intakes, 2 outtakes (including PSU)), with idle temps as low as 21C (GPU about 33).
  9. kopite

    kopite Newcomer, in training Posts: 19

    :bounce: Hi guys a newcomer here both to the forum and computers I have been reading the post most intently I would like to post my set up if I may for any advice or critisim 2x80mm fans lower front inhaling 1 side fan x 80mm exhaling 1 x120mm back fan exhaling I duct fan 1 x 60mm chipset fan I mounted a bigger heatsink on my chipset and added the fan exhaling 2x psu,s fans I am thinking of cutting a hole or boring holes in top of case and fitting 1x80mm fan exhaling my temps at present for a 3200 barton cpu are cpu 46 degrees system 26 degrees that must be down to the larger heatsink and fan as you can see I am heat obbsesd lol Kopite
  10. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    its hard to read kopite's message, but from what I see, you've got a total of:
    1x120mm exhale at the back.
    1x80mm exhale on side panel.
    2x80mm inhale at the front.
    plus some PSU fans and CPU fans and a chipset fan.

    Okay, I think it'll do you much better to have the side panel on inhale. Have it blow cold air over the motherboard.

    About boring the holes, I suggest a 120mm hole. You'd get more air out for less noise.

    Also, I've just recently opened up my PSU (gasp!) and I removed both the fans in it and replaced them with fans double the wattage. Effect: 5C lowered CPU temp. More airflow going out, therefore more air going in. Might be alittle too extreme for some people (voids PSU warranty for sure), but in this case, I found that it works alot better now.

    BTW, I bought some foam sheets, and placed them at every contact point the fan makes with the casing. Didn't have any effect on noise (includes in the PSU, since I had opened that up already). I didn't notice any effect at least. No effect on temperature too, which should be expected (I've cut them so you can't even see that its there).
  11. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    Forgot to add, don't be too obsessed with getting heat out of your comp. Get obsessed with the noise it makes while diong that too! :p

    I'd like a computer that'll run icy cold with little noise. Working on it. Think there'll be a market for cold computer systems? I can see the marketing already...
    "Your computer overheating? Your fridge out of space? Get the new <enter product name> today! It'll solve both your problems by reducing your computer temperatures to <enter low temperature>! That means you can make ice in your computer!"

    Will probably cost a bomb though, as well as taking alot of wattage, but it'll be quiet.

    And seriously, I am working on it. Not going to market it, but when I'm done with it, I'll post some pics.
     
  12. kopite

    kopite Newcomer, in training Posts: 19

    :hotouch: Thanks CMH sorry my description was unreadable but yes I have 2 x 80mm fans front blowing air in 1x 80mm side fan blowing air in and a 120mm fan back blowing air out plus a duct exhaust fan my computer is not too noisy just a low hum so noise is not realy a problem will buy a better heatsink and fan befor cutting the case for a 120mm fan in the top to see if that helps Thank you for your time and advice much appreciated Kopite
  13. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    not really unreadable, just a little hard.... use ENTER to make it a little easier to read...
  14. Rik

    Rik Banned Posts: 4,985

    Somthing i have done may amuse! The fans on my psu were getting noisy and worn out so i decided to replace them.

    I replaced the rear one with a cooler mate cmt-alf-8s which is silent and the top i replaced with a coolermaster jet fan, yes, one of the big uns.

    Since making this alteration my average psu temp has dropped from 43 to 38 degrees with the jet fan at minimum speed and the coolermate at 12volts. Luckily i have a large case and plenty of room above the psu so it all fits in fine.

    Its worth remembering that fans do eventually wear out and that if a fan starts to make some noise then its time to replace it. After all, a fan is a lot cheaper than a psu to replace.
  15. kopite

    kopite Newcomer, in training Posts: 19

    :knock: Hi Rik I looked at thoes areo jets coolers but was put off by a reviewer who was not happy witht he weight of the heatsink in ratio to the securing clips so I plumpt for a artic cooling 2tc which had good reviews and was not to expensive at present I am lapping it and will test the tempts as soon as it is ready as I am buffing it by hand that might be christmas lol as it stands with the present heatsink and fan my cpu tempt is 46 degrees which after reading diffrent posts I realise is fine for a barton 3200 cpu but will try the artic as soon as it ready more out of curiositythen anything lol kopite
  16. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Topic Starter Posts: 2,572   +9

    I don't really care about the weight, the recommended weight is usually way higher than what the m/b will support. Its a safety thing.

    Also, unless you're going to move your computer around alot, its not going to be much trouble. If you are going to move it around alot, just do it slowly, and I'd say its best to move it sideways.

    rik: You replaced your PSU fan? What PSU are you using? From my experience with PSUs, the better PSUs don't really have alot space to put a bigger fan in. Just thought I'd mention it before someone voids their warranty and finding out there's no space for a bigger fan (as in thicker).
  17. Rik

    Rik Banned Posts: 4,985

    Its a second hand psu so no idea what it is apart from its a 550watt, but i didnt put a bigger fan in it, its bolted to the top as its a dual fan psu. And the rear fan is exactly the same size as the old fan, i checked all the dimensions before i attempted to change it. I dont recommend that everyone should do it but I work in the electronics trade so i know what im doing. What u said about warranty is a valid point and i should have mentioned that, so i apologize for that.
  18. 1000cc

    1000cc Newcomer, in training Posts: 83

    My chieftec Dragon case came with 5x 80mm fans holes. my 2 rear ones are exhoust . "you can laugh here" the clear acrilic mounted 80mm was replace with 120mm38mm Panaflow 100 CFM using a fan adaptor . the adaptor does restrict some air. the front 80mm was replace with a 120mm38mm Panaflow at 114 CFM . I had to gutter the bottom hard drive bay since the case came with 2 i only need 2 hard drive max. i just moved them to the upper hard drive bay . when i get around to cut the plexiglass for the 120mm side mounted i well eliminate the fan adaptor . regardless my case runs extra cool. case temp 32 celsius and 38 C on the CPU accordind to my MSI mobo at iddle. with a load only my CPU goes up a few . CASE temp remains the same unless my room abient temp changes. "and not by much".
  19. 1000cc

    1000cc Newcomer, in training Posts: 83

    Kopite if you ever have heating issues just replace your 120mm with a Panaflow 120mm x 38mm < --thick the 38mm body are longer than regular 120mm x 25mm they push a lot more air with out extra noise"more efficient" . my 100 CFM 120mmX38mm Panaflow is almost silent compare to a medium or high speed 80mm fan.
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