Despite end of support, Microsoft has patched Windows XP's browser

[Scshadow]

They should've never ended support for xp until they made a suitable replacement for it. Microsoft should have recognized that XP hit a sweet spot for functionality, stability, and for being lightweight. Actually, I think they did. They just thought support contracts from business organizations were worth discontinuing XP mainstream support. Now that they are updating the IE vulnerability, I wonder if Microsoft is scared that these major vulnerabilities are making it far more enticing to migrate to a linux based platforms. After all, if organizations have to buy support contracts AND worry about all these problems, perhaps its just a better strategy to move on from windows.

 

[captaincranky]

The Win 8 bandwagon? Get off your high horse, if you love XP so much then why are you even in a tech enthusiast website? XP was built more than 12 years ago in a completely different time, so many tech generations have passed and the internet is now ubiquitous; back then people were just about getting broadband but 56k was still the majority. XP is MS' best OS, I used it till Win 7 was released but that doesn't mean people who don't have to continue using it I.e. those who don't depend on Bespoke software.

What the hell does internet speed have to do with the need to upgrade to Windows 8? AFAIK, XP works just dandy with any ISP. If you want to argue, I'm good with that. In fact, it's said I welcome it. Just don't cite examples which have nothing to do with the XP's capability.

The truth is, none of M$ operating systems are truly secure without aftermarket software. In fact, M$ goes as far as releasing their own, 'aftermarket security software', exactly to that purpose. (Microsoft Security Essentials, Windows Defender, and the monthly malware thing which I forget the name of ATM, in case you missed any of those)

I paid just 25 quid to upgrade to Win 8 on launch and again, there is no need to install any add ons to go back to the start menu. You will spend 99% of your time on the desktop mode so who gives a crap that you have to launch your applications differently?

Well, I'm sure you've heard the old adage, "a fool and his money are soon parted company". But more importantly, M$ has retrofitted Windows 8, to work like Windows 7. Why is that, you've conveniently forgotten to ask?
Because they couldn't get Windows 8 out the door when you couldn't.

Additionally, you've conveniently forgotten the fact that they had to launch Windows 8, twice, because nobody was buying it, at least not in the quantities their delusional marketing department hallucinated they would.

just click and icon or the task It takes just a few seconds to hit start and then type the first letter of what you want...

Here you're advocating spending extra time to perform an operation which takes more time, than with previous Windows variants. With all the fools, noobs, and trolls, that pass through here spouting the virtues of SSD, and its blinding boot performance, you wouldn't think you'd be so quick to overlook those couple of seconds of lost you time. Again I'd wager, another convenient lapse of memory.

But, at the same time, I agree with your point, since I'm still muddling around with Velociraptors as my system drives. Should I quit the forum because of that?

As I said, I gave Ubuntu and variants a good go but the huge driver support that Window makes it so much easier to use.

Well, every time M$ releases a new OS, the hardware manufactures smell consumer blood in the water, and expect to sell tonnage of new, higher performance hardware to meet the demands of the new OS. And lest we forget, the considerable populations that simply have to be the first kid on the block to have it.

And I don't know what you're preaching but never for a second did I say someone on Win 7 should move to Win 8 but merely that all those who bash Win 8 have never truly used it but repeat the same pack of crap over and over.

Well, I've used Windows 7, and it works just fine.

You know, a large percentage of new car buyers, don't buy a new car every year. People who grab one every other year, are even a bit snobby.

So, I think I can safely skip this version of Windows.

As far as you personally, I thought my response was broad based and multi-personal enough, to allow a person to pick and choose the part he or she was most offended by, and respond to that section, or talking point alone.

As far as a 66 post wonder demanding to know why I'm at this website, I'll tell you. I like to involve myself with the news, social implication, and psychological impacts of computers. However, I truly, and abundantly don't give a rat's a**, whether someone broke their little toy, or got said godhead of a little toy infected, trying to steal software, movies, or whatever.

Moving on, people often have remarked, "I see why you call yourself "captaincranky", your screen name fits you.

And now, I see why you call yourself, "ultraman". Pretty darn high opinion of yourself,wouldn't you say? "Ultraman", "uberman", what ever. So, I've read Nietzsche, and now I've read you. And well, "meh", on both counts.

 

[Ultraman1966]

What the hell does internet speed have to do with the need to upgrade to Windows 8? AFAIK, XP works just dandy with any ISP. If you want to argue, I'm good with that. In fact, it's said I welcome it. Just don't cite examples which have nothing to do with the XP's capability.

It's not just about internet speed but how much connectivity exists and how it is used. My point was that XP was built for a different time when technology as it exists was very different. Admittedly, Jobs was premature in announcing the Post PC era but we can't deny the numbers, PC sales are dropping and being replaced by tablets and mobiles. As you alluded to below that aftermarket software may be necessary with later iterations, will you be frank and admit that XP is less secure than all its successors?
Another point is can aftermarket software can give a perfect circle of protection to XP users? Or will the next big exploit (it'll be a when and not if) be as big as the recent one?

The truth is, none of M$ operating systems are truly secure without aftermarket software. In fact, M$ goes as far as releasing their own, 'aftermarket security software', exactly to that purpose. (Microsoft Security Essentials, Windows Defender, and the monthly malware thing which I forget the name of ATM, in case you missed any of those)

I entirely agree, I am not here to defend MS but what it's worth at they're trying. If there weren't so many people out trying to exploit the OS for criminal reasons we wouldn't have this issue. Are MS to blame for that?

Well, I'm sure you've heard the old adage, "a fool and his money are soon parted company". But more importantly, M$ has retrofitted Windows 8, to work like Windows 7. Why is that, you've conveniently forgotten to ask?
Because they couldn't get Windows 8 out the door when you couldn't.

Sorry, 25 quid for a new and improved OS which will enjoy an added 3 years support (at least) is called foolish? Guess what, I complain and bitched like the rest of them but when I realised how slick and fast Win 8 was I adjusted to the new style and haven't looked back since. I know that old timers are afraid of change but you got to try at least.

Additionally, you've conveniently forgotten the fact that they had to launch Windows 8, twice, because nobody was buying it, at least not in the quantities their delusional marketing department hallucinated they would.

Stop drawing strawman arguments. I haven't forgotten that at all because I am an active user of Win 8 so read the news of the upcoming updates.

Here you're advocating spending extra time to perform an operation which takes more time, than with previous Windows variants. With all the fools, noobs, and trolls, that pass through here spouting the virtues of SSD, and its blinding boot performance, you wouldn't think you'd be so quick to overlook those couple of seconds of lost you time. Again I'd wager, another convenient lapse of memory.

I don't know what you're talking about, I'm advocating that there is no loss in productivity from losing the start menu. It's just that people are afraid of change and hence MS have had to backtrack.

But, at the same time, I agree with your point, since I'm still muddling around with Velociraptors as my system drives. Should I quit the forum because of that?

Yeah sure why not?

Well, every time M$ releases a new OS, the hardware manufactures smell consumer blood in the water, and expect to sell tonnage of new, higher performance hardware to meet the demands of the new OS. And lest we forget, the considerable populations that simply have to be the first kid on the block to have it.

Yes, it's capitalism and MS is a business looking to make money. I have no illusions about this; they want to milk us dry. That's what all corporations want, more of your money. So what's new?

Well, I've used Windows 7, and it works just fine.

I agree, I will re-iterate what I said early, I am not advocating anyone on Win 7 to move to Win 8. Never even implied it, only you with your strawman arguments have done that.

You know, a large percentage of new car buyers, don't buy a new car every year. People who grab one every other year, are even a bit snobby.

Not sure why this analogy is here, I don't buy new cars either. I always go for 3 years or older for the best value to performance/age ratio.

So, I think I can safely skip this version of Windows.

Congrats, but this isn't about you but XP users still out there.

As far as you personally, I thought my response was broad based and multi-personal enough, to allow a person to pick and choose the part he or she was most offended by, and respond to that section, or talking point alone.

As far as a 66 post wonder demanding to know why I'm at this website, I'll tell you. I like to involve myself with the news, social implication, and psychological impacts of computers. However, I truly, and abundantly don't give a rat's a**, whether someone broke their little toy, or got said godhead of a little toy infected, trying to steal software, movies, or whatever.

Moving on, people often have remarked, "I see why you call yourself "captaincranky", your screen name fits you.

And now, I see why you call yourself, "ultraman". Pretty darn high opinion of yourself,wouldn't you say? "Ultraman", "uberman", what ever. So, I've read Nietzsche, and now I've read you. And well, "meh", on both counts.

No, Ultraman1966 is in reference to the camp and silly super hero from Japanese television. I think we both know you were smart enough to know this but still persevered with this insult because you seem to be losing the argument. Else why finish with a personal attack?
Yes, I've only posted 66 times, what's your point? Seniority doesn't mean it makes you more right. It might give you a bigger e-peen though.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Nothing beats the command line IMHO, nothing like that black screen and flashing cursor, I can stare at it for days.

 

[captaincranky]

....{ }....

First of all. I tried, apparently unsuccessfully, to explain that while I did indeed, quote you, my response was directed toward the overall synopsis of Windows 8 proponent comments, during the course of these discussions. (Across the many Windows 8 threads here at TS).

I am an XP user. But, I'm also a Windows 7 user.

So, I render unto XP, that which belongs to XP. In other words, I don't do my banking with it, but I delight in offering it up for sacrifice in the search for erotic art. It gets infected, who cares? I just shove in the recovery disk, and chalk it up to experience. ((Did you get the pun there? Windows eX-Perience). Then I only reinstall apps necessary pursuant to the performance of that task. A very simple, very compact, installation.

So for me, XP is just an expendable pawn. As for those who are still using it as prime OS. Costs have to be managed. People are paying for continued long term support of XP. So that would tend to indicate, it isn't a case of M$ not being able to secure XP, it's just that they don't want to.

I'm not about to retire useable hardware, simply to live up to M$'s expectations of how much of my money they think they're entitled to.

And as for your "strawman" crap re-reiterations, find another word, or change your avatar to a parrot!

EDIT: BTW, I don't think you can win an argument by declaring yourself the winner. What you do get to lay claim to, is my definition of an autocrat talking down to people.

Issues like these are pretty much stalemates. So, Polly want a cracker? You know, like a peace offering...... "Straw man...., straw man...,squawk...., straw man, squawk....".

 

[Guest]

Quit using Ie a long time ago in favor of Firefox. Also use a browser , "Maxthon", a cloud browser. It's pretty cool. Anybody else out there have experience with Maxthon?

 

[captaincranky]

Quit using Ie a long time ago in favor of Firefox.

A big +1 for the red panda!

Also use a browser , "Maxthon", a cloud browser. It's pretty cool. Anybody else out there have experience with Maxthon?

Which....?? Never heard of it. But if you say it works for you, stick with it. I may just give TOR a shot though, at least for any slightly nefarious browser undertakings in the future. (I know that's based in FF though).

I will say I seem to have to use IE to log into my Redbox account, because FF stalls. At least running NoScript it does. Even with full permissions given, Firefox locks up between pages, when trying to log in to reserve a movie.

To return to topic, (never thought I'd hear myself say that), I think it's decent of M$ to include such early versions of their browser in the patch.

But people are still browsing with IE-6, really.... That's about as imprudent and unsafe as bending over to pick up the soap in a penitentiary shower.....

 

[rub900]

I have very little sympathy for the people still running XP in any environment. Its feature set is dated and it was released in October of 2001 to the general public which is over 12 years old now. People if they didn't want Vista should have upgraded when 7 came out and such instead of waiting and now using the excuse that Windows 8 is not their cup of tea to upgrade.

Im sorry, I loved XP as well but it was time to move on awhile ago. Im surprised Microsoft actually patched something for XP even after its EOL which was a nice gesture by Microsoft.

Because large corporations are still using XP. I know you don't believe me and I don't care. It is not just replacing the OS they have to replace the hardware too. It is expensive to do that for thousands of employees.

 

[rub900]

If you don't care though then losing support should not matter to you because your not changing much anyways. Fact is no company including Microsoft should be forced to support a really old version of their OS because some people want to change. It was nice of them to update the browser issue, but the fact remains XP is over 10 years old and they can't focus on every OS they have made. They eventually have to move on and people will eventually have to as well (for the people that do not do much and just need it for basic tasks, nothing is going to change anyways).

Rofl

You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[GhostRyder]

Because large corporations are still using XP. I know you don't believe me and I don't care. It is not just replacing the OS they have to replace the hardware too. It is expensive to do that for thousands of employees.

The average computer life span including its usefulness is around 5 years. XP is over 12 years old and they should have been prepared and preparing to upgrade. Waiting 12 years then being shocked and scrambling when 3 other OS's have come out from its conception. It's time to move on and more companies than not already moved to 7 which is something the other could have done.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

No you actually don't, try checking all other OS's and seeing if anyone still supports the OS or program version 10+ years old. The fact microsoft kept support for more than 12 years was more than generous.

 

[captaincranky]

...[ ]...No you actually don't, try checking all other OS's and seeing if anyone still supports the OS or program version 10+ years old. The fact microsoft kept support for more than 12 years was more than generous.

The fact is, Windows is Windows is Windows. There are still remnants if MS-DOS, (I believe), involved in launching Windows. Plus, MS-DOS is used in bit and pieces of diagnostic programs that are designed to run without Windows.

Another point is this; earlier versions of M$ proprietary programs, such as "Flight Simulator 2004", will run quite successfully on Windows 7. After market offerings, don't quite seem to fare as well.

The fact remains, that companies are paying M$ to continue support on XP.

You have to conclude that M$ could continue to secure XP in the home, but chooses not to do so.

Now agreed, M$ has been extremely fair in their continued support of XP.

However, you can't dismiss XP as not being capable of being secure enough for business purposes either. You lose that claim automatically.

So, I'm certainly not one of the people that's going into hysterics or a bitter depression because XP general support has concluded. However, I'm not panicking myself into replacing any XP computer that own either.

Your claim of a 5 year service life for a useable, and useful machine is flatly ludicrous. CPU life at stock clock speeds is estimated at about a minimum of 10 years. And the little old lady that stays in touch with her grand kids on Facebook, certainly doesn't require the level of performance which you seem to have convinced yourself, is your "inalienable right".

There are several concomitant truths in play here, and you've only chosen to pursue the one which can be molded to your published opinion.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just the way forum threads tend to play out, and sometimes a person gets caught up in it. I'm well capable of doing the same thing myself. ;peace:

 

[GhostRyder]

The fact is, Windows is Windows is Windows. There are still remnants if MS-DOS, (I believe), involved in launching Windows. Plus, MS-DOS is used in bit and pieces of diagnostic programs that are designed to run without Windows.

Well of course

The fact remains, that companies are paying M$ to continue support on XP.

But that comes down to the point of what people are saying is a surprise. They don't support there other old OS's anymore so why was this one considered heresy when support finally ended.

However, you can't dismiss XP as not being capable of being secure enough for business purposes either. You lose that claim automatically.

Never claimed it wasn't?

So, I'm certainly not one of the people that's going into hysterics or a bitter depression because XP general support has concluded. However, I'm not panicking myself into replacing any XP computer that own either.

Another point, end of support does not mean your forced to upgrade. Its mostly from the secure point for some businesses that are the bigger issues rather than the average home user.

Your claim of a 5 year service life for a useable, and useful machine is flatly ludicrous. CPU life at stock clock speeds is estimated at about a minimum of 10 years. And the little old lady that stays in touch with her grand kids on Facebook, certainly doesn't require the level of performance which you seem to have convinced yourself, is your "inalienable right".

Probably bad wording on my part, I meant that the average consumer generally replaces his or her machine around the 5 year mark (Or buys another one whether its a laptop or a desktop). A machine can last well over 10+ years, my Athlon 64 machine is still cranking and it was made 9+ years ago. The little old lady using the computer would not be affected by this at all.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just the way forum threads tend to play out, and sometimes a person gets caught up in it. I'm well capable of doing the same thing myself. ;peace:

Well all good things must come to an end, I just feel that people are hating on Microsoft for this OS's end of support while they pretty much ignored in the past the other OS's that have come and gone. XP was dated and there are 3 other OS's that have replaced it since then, business should have been prepared for this.

 

[captaincranky]

...[ ]...Well all good things must come to an end, I just feel that people are hating on Microsoft for this OS's end of support while they pretty much ignored in the past the other OS's that have come and gone. XP was dated and there are 3 other OS's that have replaced it since then, business should have been prepared for this.

I'm certainly not hating on M$ for discontinuing support for XP. In fact, I have to leave my old eMachines at SP-2, because the restore discs no longer work for a non-destructive restore after you install SP-3. ( I found that out the hard way, after I just bricked the eClunker over an AVG update). But, I don't have trouble with XP online as long as FF is up and running with "NoScript" installed.

That fact remains that a huge portion of the hype surrounding XP's security or obsolescence, doesn't even apply to the machines on which I have it installed. Two of them, are never even connected to the web, save for the time it takes to download and install M$' updates.

You can do a lot of stuff quicker or more effectively with 2GB of memory and 32 bit XP, than you can with 2GB of memory and 32 bit Win 7. You don't get the glitz, true enough. But Aero's heavy hardware requirement, seems to be responsible for crashing FF on my G-41 IGP platform. I can open 2 or 3 times the browser tabs/windows on the XP box, with no problem whatsoever.

I am mildly disturbed with M$' scare tactics surrounding said end of support.

Without getting into the good, bad, or ugly of Windows 8, the fact remains that its initial release was a massive fiscal flop, and certainly one of the XP EOL campaign's ulterior motives, is to scare people to the new OS. End of support for XP, is the software equivalent of pulling the rug out from under XP users.

But again, I fully agree that M$ has been more than generous with the time of support they've offered for it.

I do think they might consider no longer requiring the product to be activated. But, OTOH, if they're still willing to keep existing updates available on their servers, I suppose they have every right to require activation continue to be enforced.

So again, no real clear cut right or wrong answer to be found here.

But, the overarching issue that should be everyone's concern, is how often M$ intends to stampede it's customers into springing for a new OS,. now that they'e "killed" XP. Will they try to weasel their way into eventually forcing users into a subscription model? Those are my real concerns.

Because of their apparent generosity with XP support, how do the top level execs feel about that? Do they think they went too far with it, and not leveraged enough money out of their software customers? I'll tell you though, 2/3 of the stuff I actually need to do online, I can accomplish with a live run of Ubuntu, which makes it a bit more difficult for them to steamroll me into wiping the dust off of my wallet.

 

[rub900]

The fact is, Windows is Windows is Windows. There are still remnants if MS-DOS, (I believe), involved in launching Windows. Plus, MS-DOS is used in bit and pieces of diagnostic programs that are designed to run without Windows.

Well of course

The fact remains, that companies are paying M$ to continue support on XP.

But that comes down to the point of what people are saying is a surprise. They don't support there other old OS's anymore so why was this one considered heresy when support finally ended.

However, you can't dismiss XP as not being capable of being secure enough for business purposes either. You lose that claim automatically.

Never claimed it wasn't?

So, I'm certainly not one of the people that's going into hysterics or a bitter depression because XP general support has concluded. However, I'm not panicking myself into replacing any XP computer that own either.

Another point, end of support does not mean your forced to upgrade. Its mostly from the secure point for some businesses that are the bigger issues rather than the average home user.

Your claim of a 5 year service life for a useable, and useful machine is flatly ludicrous. CPU life at stock clock speeds is estimated at about a minimum of 10 years. And the little old lady that stays in touch with her grand kids on Facebook, certainly doesn't require the level of performance which you seem to have convinced yourself, is your "inalienable right".

Probably bad wording on my part, I meant that the average consumer generally replaces his or her machine around the 5 year mark (Or buys another one whether its a laptop or a desktop). A machine can last well over 10+ years, my Athlon 64 machine is still cranking and it was made 9+ years ago. The little old lady using the computer would not be affected by this at all.

Not saying that's a bad thing, just the way forum threads tend to play out, and sometimes a person gets caught up in it. I'm well capable of doing the same thing myself. ;peace:

Well all good things must come to an end, I just feel that people are hating on Microsoft for this OS's end of support while they pretty much ignored in the past the other OS's that have come and gone. XP was dated and there are 3 other OS's that have replaced it since then, business should have been prepared for this.

I will say again. It is not the OS but the cost of the hardware. If a company has firewall and other security in place an old OS is not a problem. Replacing thousands of laptops because of an OS upgrade is stupid.

 

[captaincranky]

I will say again. It is not the OS but the cost of the hardware. If a company has firewall and other security in place an old OS is not a problem. Replacing thousands of laptops because of an OS upgrade is stupid.

I don't know why you're posting in the context that I disagree with you. I don't. This is why companies are going to pay M$ millions for continued XP support, pursuant to saving many more millions in new hardware expenditures.

I can't speak for @GhostRyder on the issue, you'll have to take it up with him, one on one.

With a couple of exceptions, I like XP as much, or more, than Windows 7. Win 7 gets the nod for glitz and native SATA support, XP for doing a lot more work, with a lot less hardware.

 

[captaincranky]

I will say again. It is not the OS but the cost of the hardware. If a company has firewall and other security in place an old OS is not a problem. Replacing thousands of laptops because of an OS upgrade is stupid.

A fact that most of the regulars at the site have been aware of for quite some time. Hence, once was sufficient, and twice becomes a painful repetition of the patently obvious.

 

[GhostRyder]

I don't know why you're posting in the context that I disagree with you. I don't. This is why companies are going to pay M$ millions for continued XP support, pursuant to saving many more millions in new hardware expenditures.

I can't speak for @GhostRyder on the issue, you'll have to take it up with him, one on one.

With a couple of exceptions, I like XP as much, or more, than Windows 7. Win 7 gets the nod for glitz and native SATA support, XP for doing a lot more work, with a lot less hardware.

You rang?

Well spending a lot on hardware is a bit of a concern. Though at that point depending on the age of the device im pretty sure they got their money's worth from said devices. Depends on the device and age of course but I would venture at least 5 years or so old.

 

[captaincranky]

You rang?...[ ].....

so it would seem....

Hardware replacement cost wouldn't be the sole concern in a corporate environment. IT labor charges, software updates, or repurchase numbers could be quite substantial as well. Even the interruptions in the routines of individual workers duties could mount up.

I don't know WTF, (what the fuss), is with this issue is anyway. XP Home support was supposed to end long ago As for the corporate environment, XP Pro support was already extended also. (I think).

Anyhoo, as I've been saying all along, anyone who has posted to this thread is at once right and wrong, as this is surely a multi-faceted, hot button, issue.

Besides, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to @rub900, suggesting he talk with you directly.

You know if you quote me, it's at your own risk. rub900, did exactly that....

 

[Railman]

The Win 8 bandwagon? Get off your high horse, if you love XP so much then why are you even in a tech enthusiast website? (snip)

Well Ultraman1966 that comment was wrong in so many ways. For starters the vast majority of cash point machines use XP. In that respect XP is a valid subject matter people should be free to comment on be it positive or negative or both.

Secondly why diss Captaincranky? He posts the most entertaining comments. You are just a mere blip on the horizon compared to the Colossus Captaincranky.