When the US government publicly declare their no-negotiation with terrorists policy, do they really mean it. Is the US that hardcore? I imagine they say one thing but secretly do the opposite. They probably have a Delta Force headed by Chuck Norris that attempt rescues just like in the movie.
Does George Bush really not negotiate?
- Thread starter erwin1978
- Start date
SNGX1275
Posts: 10,615 +467
Apparently I missed all humor that was in that, I'll bring it back for you, but I found nothing about it related to the question, maybe I missed something.
I just thought you were one of the many a day we get that post something in a thread they somehow meant for another thread.
I just thought you were one of the many a day we get that post something in a thread they somehow meant for another thread.
D
DelJo63
IMO, there's more that he DOESN'T than DOES :-( sadly this is neither humorous nor a subject for the technical group present here.erwin1978 said:
*flame off*
Athena
Posts: 63 +0
Its actually US policy that we do not negotiate. Who the presedent is at any given time does not effect this policy. This is done as once a person/nation gives into a bully the bully can then expect the mark to give in next time as well. Look at the riots in Fance as a good reason for this type of policy.
lithiumdeuterid
Posts: 88 +0
I'm not advocating this, but imagine the following scenario:
Some criminals holds a group of people hostage, using them as human shields. They demand money, and threaten to kill a hostage every 30 minutes their demands are not met. Instead of giving them anything, or even replying, a team of armored soldiers enters and kills everyone that looks threatening. Some of the hostages are killed in the firefight, but most of them escape unharmed.
Would a policy like that have the effect of decreasing crime?
Some criminals holds a group of people hostage, using them as human shields. They demand money, and threaten to kill a hostage every 30 minutes their demands are not met. Instead of giving them anything, or even replying, a team of armored soldiers enters and kills everyone that looks threatening. Some of the hostages are killed in the firefight, but most of them escape unharmed.
Would a policy like that have the effect of decreasing crime?
hewybo
Posts: 417 +0
I must
I have read this thread with interest, but promised myself that I would not comment. As I ALWAYS talk too much, I can't help myself.
The scenario offered by lithium deuterid is unpleasant, but all too real (witness the Russian debacle in gassing the Chechnyan rebels). More on this later.
To me, in today's world, the hostage takers have no real interest in the satisfaction of their demands, but rather only care about the publicity created by their actions. Meeting their demands might or might not encourage further similar actions, but I happen to think they will continue to do what they do, regardless. I am a pacificist by nature, but the only time these people will be stopped is when they are dead.
Back to the Russians- they used a "sleep" gas introduced into the ventilation system. A good idea, perhaps, except they did not know how long to wait before going in, because they were woefully unfamiliar with overexposure to the gas, thus insuring the deaths of many of the hostages they were trying to rescue. Which brings me to my point regarding George W. Bush.
He has no idea whether to negotiate or not. When he owned the Texas Rangers baseball team, he ran the francise into total disrepair, and I pronounced him a dolt. As the inept governor of Texas, he proved himself a dolt. As president, he has shown that he lacks even the ability to pronounce the names of other countries and their leaders.
Dolts have to ask others whether to negotiate or not. (After looking up "negotiate" in the dictionary)
There. Flame out! :hotouch:
I have read this thread with interest, but promised myself that I would not comment. As I ALWAYS talk too much, I can't help myself.
The scenario offered by lithium deuterid is unpleasant, but all too real (witness the Russian debacle in gassing the Chechnyan rebels). More on this later.
To me, in today's world, the hostage takers have no real interest in the satisfaction of their demands, but rather only care about the publicity created by their actions. Meeting their demands might or might not encourage further similar actions, but I happen to think they will continue to do what they do, regardless. I am a pacificist by nature, but the only time these people will be stopped is when they are dead.
Back to the Russians- they used a "sleep" gas introduced into the ventilation system. A good idea, perhaps, except they did not know how long to wait before going in, because they were woefully unfamiliar with overexposure to the gas, thus insuring the deaths of many of the hostages they were trying to rescue. Which brings me to my point regarding George W. Bush.
He has no idea whether to negotiate or not. When he owned the Texas Rangers baseball team, he ran the francise into total disrepair, and I pronounced him a dolt. As the inept governor of Texas, he proved himself a dolt. As president, he has shown that he lacks even the ability to pronounce the names of other countries and their leaders.
Dolts have to ask others whether to negotiate or not. (After looking up "negotiate" in the dictionary)
There. Flame out! :hotouch:
flavin
Posts: 89 +0
hewybo said:
WHAT! R u serious about that he owned the rangers and almost destroyed the franchise? so we put this man in charge of the US (a huge baseball team) and not only once but twice. i honestly thought that bush fixed his 2nd election. i really couldnt belive that he got re-elected i mean honestly.
i think bush is a terrible president. 1. he goes after saddam because he tried to kill bush senior (right didnt that happen?) 2. the man responsible for 9/11 (the one and only justifiable reason to go to war - the death of innocent people) osamma bidladden was totally just let off the hook and his focus turned to saddam. 3. our biggest threat North Korea who has WMD's is completly free to do what they want (i saw a video on the internet from north korea that was about bush being the devil and america being just as bad. thats no good commin from a country with WMD's trying to turn their people against us)
ps. if everyone could just disarm themselves stop spending ALL the money on weapons that only bring death. and spend the money of other things that can actually help people like food and housing.
i think we all the most powerfull nation in the world should lead the way. first get rid of all weapons except like a couple of nukes incase somebody attacks us(but then again who r we even gonna nuke if we cant find them and not to mention the other people who arent guilty) so no nukes but we keep something to not be 100% defensless and then we completly stop buying weapons and stuff pull all soldiers outta other countries.
this would be a good idea if every country would stop wasting there peoples money but it wont happen for a long long time if ever. its just human nature
Athena
Posts: 63 +0
Let me ask you this if you where a person thinking about doing the crime you mentioned and you knew the cops will just come in and kill you all for being evil criminals, would that make you more or less worried if you knew the cops would give you anything you asked for. But we are not talking about cops and robbers here we are talking about terrism.
My personal take on terrism is that it is bad and all terrists should be killed before they are aloud to kill innocents. (if we could do that it would be cool)
What do you think the world should do to terrists looking to kill others or take hostiges they are happy to kill in hopes of getting something they want?
My personal take on terrism is that it is bad and all terrists should be killed before they are aloud to kill innocents. (if we could do that it would be cool)
What do you think the world should do to terrists looking to kill others or take hostiges they are happy to kill in hopes of getting something they want?
lithiumdeuterid said:
hewybo
Posts: 417 +0
Beyond me
During your average bank-robbery-gone-bad scenario, negotiations are called for, as usually the demands are reduced to a pack of cigarettes and a couple of pizzas, and armed confrontations are unnecessary.
In the world of fundamentalist extremists, however, the scenario is vastly different. These people have been convinced (brainwashed) that their "martyrdom" serves their faith and brings them rich rewards from God.* In these cases, any demands made are secondary, and the hostage-takers consider any that are met as just a "bonus" earned on their way to martyrdom. They don't value their own lives, much less those of innocents who may be harmed.
As to the "preemptive" excision of these radical *****s- I have always been a pacifist by nature, but because of the callous disregard they have shown for innocent lives, and the consequences of their actions, I say- identify them, and take 'em out. As to those who escape this purge and DO manage to take hostages, take all possible precautions to protect the innocent, but take 'em out, anyway. Negotiate? No, it will not work.
*- see my post in the "jokes" thread- "language barrier" :hotbounce
During your average bank-robbery-gone-bad scenario, negotiations are called for, as usually the demands are reduced to a pack of cigarettes and a couple of pizzas, and armed confrontations are unnecessary.
In the world of fundamentalist extremists, however, the scenario is vastly different. These people have been convinced (brainwashed) that their "martyrdom" serves their faith and brings them rich rewards from God.* In these cases, any demands made are secondary, and the hostage-takers consider any that are met as just a "bonus" earned on their way to martyrdom. They don't value their own lives, much less those of innocents who may be harmed.
As to the "preemptive" excision of these radical *****s- I have always been a pacifist by nature, but because of the callous disregard they have shown for innocent lives, and the consequences of their actions, I say- identify them, and take 'em out. As to those who escape this purge and DO manage to take hostages, take all possible precautions to protect the innocent, but take 'em out, anyway. Negotiate? No, it will not work.
*- see my post in the "jokes" thread- "language barrier" :hotbounce
TS | Crazyace
Posts: 272 +0
Clinton
The Clinton admin. negotiated with North Korea. It is policy, but not always enforced. Clinton gave oil to North Korea in exchage that they would halt the bomb production.
When Bush came in, the deal ended, which is why they have become upset.
The Clinton admin. negotiated with North Korea. It is policy, but not always enforced. Clinton gave oil to North Korea in exchage that they would halt the bomb production.
When Bush came in, the deal ended, which is why they have become upset.
Athena
Posts: 63 +0
I do not believe N. Korea was globally named as a terrorist state at that time. (but I could be wrong)
So you think any time a county or terrorist group gets their panties in a bunch we should just send them free oil or food or what ever else they want?
I guess that would only work if the person demanding the items was not greedy and thus never asked for any thing more, and the country paying them off had tons of extra loot they do not actually need to care for their own people.
Note the original post: "When the US government publicly declare their no-negotiation with terrorists policy, do they really mean it. Is the US that hardcore? I imagine they say one thing but secretly do the opposite. They probably have a Delta Force headed by Chuck Norris that attempt rescues just like in the movie."
So you think any time a county or terrorist group gets their panties in a bunch we should just send them free oil or food or what ever else they want?
I guess that would only work if the person demanding the items was not greedy and thus never asked for any thing more, and the country paying them off had tons of extra loot they do not actually need to care for their own people.
TS | Crazyace said:
Note the original post: "When the US government publicly declare their no-negotiation with terrorists policy, do they really mean it. Is the US that hardcore? I imagine they say one thing but secretly do the opposite. They probably have a Delta Force headed by Chuck Norris that attempt rescues just like in the movie."
Authoritarian rule 1: Poke fun at the liberals
Authoritarian rule 2: GOTO Authoritarian rule 1
Note that Ghandi was a liberal who freed India from British imperialist rule, while Hitler was an authoritarian who lost a world war and killed himself. I know which camp I'd rather be in given the choice.
You see, that's the problem with ignorant namecalling - the lead swings both ways.
Authoritarian rule 2: GOTO Authoritarian rule 1
Note that Ghandi was a liberal who freed India from British imperialist rule, while Hitler was an authoritarian who lost a world war and killed himself. I know which camp I'd rather be in given the choice.
You see, that's the problem with ignorant namecalling - the lead swings both ways.
hewybo
Posts: 417 +0
what's a liberal
In the 60's, I had long hair, used pot, and many other drugs, grew a little, worked on George McGovern's presidential campaign, got arrested for "sitting in" at the University, and on, andon, etc.
Guess that makes me a liberal? Now, contrast that with some of my earlier comments concerning hostage-takers, terrorists, etc. They sound rather conservative, no?
Blanket statements never work. I do NOT criticize Bush because he's a conservatve (he's NOT, really. look up the word as it applies to politics). I do not criticize Bush because he's a Republican. I criticize him for what he does, and says. And because he's a dolt. I criticized Clinton, as well. I criticize things/people who do things I think are wrong. Party affiliation notwithstanding. :evil:
Gary66 said:
In the 60's, I had long hair, used pot, and many other drugs, grew a little, worked on George McGovern's presidential campaign, got arrested for "sitting in" at the University, and on, andon, etc.
Guess that makes me a liberal? Now, contrast that with some of my earlier comments concerning hostage-takers, terrorists, etc. They sound rather conservative, no?
Blanket statements never work. I do NOT criticize Bush because he's a conservatve (he's NOT, really. look up the word as it applies to politics). I do not criticize Bush because he's a Republican. I criticize him for what he does, and says. And because he's a dolt. I criticized Clinton, as well. I criticize things/people who do things I think are wrong. Party affiliation notwithstanding. :evil:
I agree Hewybo. The really crazy thing with people who almost fanatically support Bush and have the "liberals=*****s" dogma stuck firmly in their heads, is that George W Bush is actually a politician that belongs firmly in the "Neo-Libertarian" camp.
Note that neo-liberalism is much like liberalism, except it's not. It tries to look like its a great thing for the very same reasons as your normal liberalism, but in actual fact instead of being about the reduction of government in terms that benefit the people, it's all about reduction of government in terms that benefit big money and corporation.
Even better, and even more crazy, is that Neo-libertarians are often evalangelists of the fanatical variety, and gain support from many evalangelists, but none the less when it comes to money, big buisness and the country as a hhole, what they actually preach is nothing short of "social-darwinism" (ie, survival of the fittest, and how can the fit be made fitter).
Note that neo-liberalism is much like liberalism, except it's not. It tries to look like its a great thing for the very same reasons as your normal liberalism, but in actual fact instead of being about the reduction of government in terms that benefit the people, it's all about reduction of government in terms that benefit big money and corporation.
Even better, and even more crazy, is that Neo-libertarians are often evalangelists of the fanatical variety, and gain support from many evalangelists, but none the less when it comes to money, big buisness and the country as a hhole, what they actually preach is nothing short of "social-darwinism" (ie, survival of the fittest, and how can the fit be made fitter).
Futile opinions
1. US is at this hour the biggest (and ony, for now) superpower.
2. They think that being the most powerful amongst the states of the Earth gives them the right to play as the cop (vigilante?) who takes care of everything.
3. Just as the terrorists were bad when attacking on 9/11, the United States are just as when they attack some other state without a resolution from the UN. Who gave them the right to attack Iraq?
What was their problem with Vietnam, former Yugoslavia and so on? The human rights?! Be serious, the Chinese give a sh** about them and nothing will EVER happen to them. Why? 'Cause they're powerful enough! In this world, you have to realize that the law of power is THE LAW.
4. I'm sorry to say, but most of the Americans seem to be brain-washed over this.
You people should really start reading some books, and get the movies of Michael Moore.
Then, take a look at your huge egoes and deflate them a little.
1. US is at this hour the biggest (and ony, for now) superpower.
2. They think that being the most powerful amongst the states of the Earth gives them the right to play as the cop (vigilante?) who takes care of everything.
3. Just as the terrorists were bad when attacking on 9/11, the United States are just as when they attack some other state without a resolution from the UN. Who gave them the right to attack Iraq?
What was their problem with Vietnam, former Yugoslavia and so on? The human rights?! Be serious, the Chinese give a sh** about them and nothing will EVER happen to them. Why? 'Cause they're powerful enough! In this world, you have to realize that the law of power is THE LAW.
4. I'm sorry to say, but most of the Americans seem to be brain-washed over this.
You people should really start reading some books, and get the movies of Michael Moore.
Then, take a look at your huge egoes and deflate them a little.
The definition of the unreasonable man is in the absoluteness of his beliefs and opinions.
The definition of reality is that which a person chooses to see at the expense of that to which their perspective blinds them.
...the world needs far less absolutes, and far wider perspectives.
The definition of reality is that which a person chooses to see at the expense of that to which their perspective blinds them.
...the world needs far less absolutes, and far wider perspectives.
LuminaryJanitor
Posts: 13 +0
But they don't. They love to pretend that they do. But defending human rights and spreading democracy (which, strangely enough, they don't even have themselves...) has absolutely nothing to do with it. They don't get involved unless there's something in it for them. They would have invaded North Korea years ago if there was something there that they wanted.Eko said:
They've got no problem supporting murderous tyrants if they think they have something to gain (eg Mobutu, Pol Pot), or tearing down a democratic government and replacing it with a brutal dictatorship (Mossadeq, prime minister of the democratic Iranian government, was deposed in a US-backed coup in 1953, for his view that Iranian oil should benefit Iranian citizens, and replaced by the Shah).
To quote the Australian comedy trio Tripod:
"There's millions dying in the Congo
But we don't send our soldiers there
'Cause there ain't no oil in the Congo
Only bloodshed and despair"
Here's an example of just how much the US government cares about human rights - a small sample of the list of UN resolutions vetoed by the USA in the past 30 years:
- International action to eliminate apartheid.
- Demands that Israel desist from human rights violations.
- Calls for developed countries to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.
Honestly, it sickens me to see how upset Americans get over terrorism. You cried when terrorists killed 3,000 people in the World Trade Center, but I bet you didn't shed a tear for the 2,000,000 civilians your army killed in Vietnam. You condemn terrorists for killing innocent people, but you didn't condemn your own government for killing a quarter of a million innocent Iraqis in the Gulf war, and all so you could continue to burn a quarter of the world's oil.
The people who died on September 11th, and their friends and families, certainly didn't deserve what happened to them.
But the rest of you deserved it. America had it coming.
The cause of terrorism is not their hate for their freedom or democracy. Sweden or Canada or Holland probably all have more of those than they do. But how often do you see a Dutch embassy get bombed? It's their relentless pursuit of material gain at the expense of the already oppressed and impoverished which earns the US the hate of the rest of the world. If they actually tried to do some good in the world, rather than ****ing other people over for their own advantage, then terrorism would disappear.
But, of course, this is exactly what the terrorists want - they want the west to stop killing their people for oil - and for exactly that reason, it'll never happen. It would require, to some extent, an admission of guilt from the US, an acknowledgement that what they're doing is wrong. They'll flat out reject this course of action, even though it's the right thing to do, because it sounds too much like "negotiating with terrorists".
Got to agree with you there... No one would let that ***** run a country. No one would ever let him actually make an important decision. I doubt he could if he wanted to. The guy can barely string together a coherent sentence when he's not staring at a teleprompter. And even then he has a lot of trouble...hewybo said:
So no, George Bush doesn't negotiate with terrorists. George bush doesn't really do anything. He's just a puppet.
hewybo
Posts: 417 +0
guilty as me
Careful, Eko, or your feet will be in the same muck you so severely criticize. There is no such thing as "all Americans" feel, think, say, believe, ----ANYTHING. Not even "most" Americans. Less than half of the voters supported this administration in 2000, and BARELY half supported it in 2004.
I find it highly offensive that you think you know who I am, or how I feel. YOU are guilty of believing every anti-American thing you read. "Read some books"? What do you think I do- sit around thinking up ways to consume more petroleum products? Michael Moore? He makes some good points, but do you really think that lardass speaks for ALL Americans?
As to the brilliant custodian above, there are too many talking points to deal with you here. Propaganda is propaganda, and varies only in who wrote it.
I am an American, I am extremely proud to be one. That does NOT mean that I agree with, or support, everything done in America's name!! :hotbounce
Eko said:
Careful, Eko, or your feet will be in the same muck you so severely criticize. There is no such thing as "all Americans" feel, think, say, believe, ----ANYTHING. Not even "most" Americans. Less than half of the voters supported this administration in 2000, and BARELY half supported it in 2004.
I find it highly offensive that you think you know who I am, or how I feel. YOU are guilty of believing every anti-American thing you read. "Read some books"? What do you think I do- sit around thinking up ways to consume more petroleum products? Michael Moore? He makes some good points, but do you really think that lardass speaks for ALL Americans?
As to the brilliant custodian above, there are too many talking points to deal with you here. Propaganda is propaganda, and varies only in who wrote it.
I am an American, I am extremely proud to be one. That does NOT mean that I agree with, or support, everything done in America's name!! :hotbounce
Athena
Posts: 63 +0
Hey L J, take a chill pill man. All this hate brings me down.
Instead of putting out the hate on other countries why do you not get involved and help out the less fortunate of the world?
Try out World Vision, Compasion International and The Goads to see how the people of the US really think.
Hate is so 3rd world man.
Instead of putting out the hate on other countries why do you not get involved and help out the less fortunate of the world?
Try out World Vision, Compasion International and The Goads to see how the people of the US really think.
Hate is so 3rd world man.
Phantasm66
Posts: 4,909 +8
Peddant said:
Hhahahahah ! LOL! I got it.
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