In the wake of PRISM, should we give up on online privacy?

[cliffordcooley]

You think that if the government doesn't spill some terrible damning secret, they must be lying; but if they were to admit to a damning secret, you'd accept it immediately. Regardless of what the government is actually doing, you think they are always doing something to betray everybody they are trying to protect.

Thats just it, they are not giving us a reason to think good or bad of them. I will never trust an organization that closes the door on a discussion that will adversely effect everyones lives. If the organization wants me to stand behind them, they will include my opinion in the discussion.

From a personal stand point; any organization that will not include my opinions in a discussion that effects my life, does not deserve my support.

But you see we don't even know which opinions to offer, because we never know what is being discussed.

The Gettysburg Address

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

"new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people"

What a load of hog wash!! We are no longer being governed by the people. And freedom was also freedom from governmental control which is why we were also given the right to bear arms. We are no longer free and lose more and more of our freedom each day.

 

[ReederOnTheRun]

Thats just it, they are not giving us a reason to think good or bad of them. I will never trust an organization that closes the door on a discussion that will adversely effect everyones lives. If the organization wants me to stand behind them, they will include my opinion in the discussion.

But you see we don't even know which opinions to offer, because we never know what is being discussed.

"new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people"

I can think of one reason to think good of them - they're a key part of the United States Intelligence Community that protects the entire nation from foreign and domestic threats. Honestly, if they wanted to screw over all American citizens, they would probably just quit doing their jobs.

And "by the people, for the people" does not equal every single citizen knowing about every single national defense project. We elect people for that, and most defense projects MUST be kept secret in order to work. This is a day and age where knowledge does more to win wars than any number of troops. There is absolutely no incentive to open up all of our secrets to a conspiracy theorist like you. It would give absolutely no benefit, as you wouldn't understand how or why any of it is done; and it would put the entire nation at risk.

Seriously, think about what you're saying. Even if PRISM was really bad, I'd more likely suggest changing our government officials; not passing some new law to check with every citizen before doing anything. That's just stupid.

 

[cliffordcooley]

I can think of one reason to think good of them - they're a key part of the United States Intelligence Community that protects the entire nation from foreign and domestic threats.

Seriously, think about what you're saying.

If we would mind our own business, we wouldn't be painting a giant bullseye on our backs. You say the "United States Intelligence Community" protects against threats. I say "United States Intelligence Community" creates threats. If you think the very thing we are using to protect ourselves is not the very thing that threatens us, then it is you that are not thinking.

 

[captaincranky]

Thats just it, they are not giving us a reason to think good or bad of them. I will never trust an organization that closes the door on a discussion that will adversely effect everyones lives. If the organization wants me to stand behind them, they will include my opinion in the discussion.

From a personal stand point; any organization that will not include my opinions in a discussion that effects my life, does not deserve my support.

But you see we don't even know which opinions to offer, because we never know what is being discussed.

The Gettysburg Address
"new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people"

What a load of hog wash!! We are no longer being governed by the people. And freedom was also freedom from governmental control which is why we were also given the right to bear arms. We are no longer free and lose more and more of our freedom each day.

Ya know Clifford, all this grandiosity really is overkill.

First of all, we aren't being governed by a government, we're being governed by corporate America, who it turn is running the government.

Corporate America is telling us what to like, how to be cool, what to buy, what to think, what we should get next. So, Madison Avenue is the propaganda arm of the US government.
In spite of the fact that a person in Congress is worthless and corrupt, the people in that person's home state or district keep sending them back. I think they call that a "favorite son". It isn't what you know, is who you've bamboozled that gets you reelected.

The best part of John McCain is still in North Vietnam. That didn't stop a s***load of people from trying to elect him president.

But even more importantly, this topic begs the question, "who the f*** does everybody think they are"?

Even the NSA has budgetary considerations, and they can't possibly study the lives of every single person in the country in depth. The time or need for it simply doesn't exist. In large part, none of us are that important. At least I figure I'm not important enough to think the NSA is going to drop everything, and devote a cadre of manpower into finding out if I'm trying to make myself blind the old fashioned way.. And even if a rogue NSA agent were to try and blackmail me about that, I guess the video would end up on YouTube, because I simply don't have the money to stop it.

From time to time, I see news stories about gangs of people beating up a single defenseless person, or other heinous acts, then bragging about it by posting a video of it on Facebook. At times like these, I'm glad somebody is watching over us.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Ya know Clifford, all this grandiosity really is overkill.

Couldn't that be said about anyone, that doesn't bend over and just take it?

 

[captaincranky]

Couldn't that be said about anyone, that doesn't bend over and just take it?

Well no Cliff. Some of us just fidget a bit, then moan softly, like cattle.....

You'll see this sign at this sheep's pasture, "the hell with the wolves, it's the farmer you have to worry about"....

 

[high_NSA]

Do you have any shred of proof for these claims? Do you even know if they COULD do that if they wanted to with all their oversight? Just because it's making for good headlines, doesn't mean all the bogus is true.

Try informing your argument with facts instead of fear, and maybe I'll take you seriously.

. Hmmmm A fact for my argument? I would need to prove that a geek (if he or she wanted) could remove any security level (secret or TOP secret) documents or files from the compound to do with them as they please? You're right. I doubt that's possible. Oh Wait..?

Sure call me crazy or paranoid. But this is just the tip of the ice burg. They are not going to spend all that money and not have any way to justify it as only for terrorist groups. They can't make money off that!

 

[ReederOnTheRun]

. Hmmmm A fact for my argument? I would need to prove that a geek (if he or she wanted) could remove any security level (secret or TOP secret) documents or files from the compound to do with them as they please? You're right. I doubt that's possible. Oh Wait..?

Sure call me crazy or paranoid. But this is just the tip of the ice burg. They are not going to spend all that money and not have any way to justify it as only for terrorist groups. They can't make money off that!

Yeah, every citizen should have access to all of our top secret programs. That's a great idea! I mean it would let us feel good knowing what is going on, and there is no way our enemies would find out about any of it!

Oh wait... Yes they totally would. That would be a stupid idea, and there would be literally no benefit from doing it. Just look at my replies to Clifford if you still don't get it.

And they ARE making money off that. Finding terrorists is literally exactly what they are being paid to do.

 

[cliffordcooley]

I'm only going to say this once. Why is it we are being monitored by surveillance? It's fear of not knowing what we might do.

It's hidden secretes that draw violence as if it was a magnet. Holding secretes is drawing violence but yet they fight by watching everyone else. I don't see any progress being made in stopping this violence period. Anyone who thinks surveillance is the key (to make myself clear I said key, I didn't say it wasn't needed) to stopping violence is as delusional as our governmental offices. You can't stop a magnetic force by replacing all the surrounding items with plastic.

 

[Guest]

Never give up, Never surrender!

 

[MonsterZero]

First, prove your program works....Then we can talk about my right to privacy.

If it "helps to foil terrorist plots" then please by all means, do prove your theory.

/popcorn.

 

[kuroiei]

Well, I'm not from the USA. Never been and sadly, there's a slim chance that I will in the next 10 years or so. Never voted for my Internet freedom or privacy, because I never had the chance. In Poland even SOPA - that benefited mostly American ventures! - was introduced and enforced behind our backs, with no media exposure at all. The point is - why do I / we outside the USA have to conform to that particular law or government action? I don't want to offend anyone, because I know that it isn't the fault of he people there, but rather the gov / companies, but... a little democracy and freedom, please?

Peace.

 

[avoidz]

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[treetops]

I never put my real name on anything unless I have too, not even my amazon account has my real name.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

And just exactly how are we to find out? Everything is done behind closed doors. The media is a failure because they can't relay the information we should know.

The phrase "If you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide", is most certainly a one way street. And I'm sick of these one way streets where the gov is involved. I will never listen to a "do as I say not as I do" speech, especially coming from a governing body.

Actually, they have revealed how it works. It's just not the same thing you want to believe, so you are rejecting it. The problem is you're belief lacks falsifiability. You think that if the government doesn't spill some terrible damning secret, they must be lying; but if they were to admit to a damning secret, you'd accept it immediately. Regardless of what the government is actually doing, you think they are always doing something to betray everybody they are trying to protect.

Scientific Theory 101

IRS scandal, Benghazi scandal, the list goes on and on. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. Get your head out of the sand. If I had the power to control you without limits do you think I wouldn't exercise it? But to do that I gotta take away your guns first.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Religion is the ultimate culprit; watch as they kill everything because their god is spppppppeeeeeeeeciiiiiiiiaaaaalllllllll.

Fighting for a religious cause is pathetic, there is not one religion that believes God will not fight his own battles.

There was a problem posting your comment. Please try again in a minute (error code: USER_BANNED).

That was probably an intellect scanner rejecting your gibberish.

I seriously didn't get anything from your rambling!