I dont see what is so hard to understand. You can add more seconds to a day or add more days to a year, but the length of a second as it is scientifically and socially defined will not change. thus, in a constant environment, the clock will remain accurate to a second for 15 billion years (which, obviously, it will not exist for that long)
Latest atomic clock smashes records with 15 billion year accuracy
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wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
As I said before, the length of the day was abandoned long ago as the basis for the measurement of time. In your own interests, please educate yourself before posting again. My apologies for putting it this way as I bet that you find what I am saying offensive, but your understanding of how humanity defines time (and quantum mechanics) is lacking. The link I posted above gives the definition of the second, and this one specifies how that definition fits in with the rotation of the earth - I.e., leap time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second Both references clearly state that the rotation of the earth, that is, the length of the day, is no longer the basis for humanity's measurement of time.
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
No you can't! That what I'm saying. The gradual changes will be too slight to implement this way. The fact that they are so slight we consider a second a time constant.
But since it will be thousands of years before anyone needs to worry about it, no one knows how it will be dealt with when the time comes.
D
davislane1
Question: If you halt the rotation of the planet or tilt its axis of rotation ~90 degrees, does a second = infinity?
Not only can you add seconds to a day, you must add seconds to a day as the planet's rotation slows. Furthermore, if you go back in time, you must subtract seconds (and indeed hours if we go millions of years back) to compensate for increased rotational speed.
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
You are delusional if you think leap seconds is a permanent solution to a steady decay in planetary rotation. Sure it is a solution in our lifetime but not permanent. That's OK though we can pawn the problem off on our descendants. They will know best anyway, right?
Perhaps they will learn how to compensate for the decay and stop the rotational slowing.
Perhaps they will learn how to compensate for the decay and stop the rotational slowing.
D
davislane1
I think you're lost in space here, buddy. The solution to an inaccurate traditional clock is to add (or subtract) the appropriate quantity of units to its face (and adjust the calendar accordingly). This solution works indefinitely, by its vary nature. Nobody here is talking about the broader implications of decaying rotational speed over millennia. We're talking about the accuracy of atomic clocks versus their traditional counterparts, which indicate time rather than measure it.
cliffordcooley
Posts: 13,141 +6,441
Excuse me! What is the title to this topic again? I believe it is 15 billion years! You are the one stuck in the current century not looking at the topic at its fullest.
D
davislane1
Title: Latest atomic clock smashes records with 15 billion year accuracy
Quotation:
wiyosaya
Posts: 9,760 +9,644
That would be quite an engineering feat from the standpoint of today's technology.
Such a feat might involve changing the orbit of the Moon since the Moon is commonly given credit for the slowing of the Earth's rotation. In any event, there is quite a bit of mass that would have to be controlled to do that. But why would they go to such resource-intensive means when those resources would be better used for other things like, perhaps, exploring the universe?
BTW - there is no shame in a bit of misunderstanding when it is used as an opportunity to learn.
G
Guest
Cliff, so a colony on Mars would use a Mars second and a colony on titan would use a titan second? All seconds are based on celestial rotation.
Darth Shiv
Posts: 2,371 +886
Actually we base everything on atomic seconds and as per one of the previous posts, use civil time to make micro-adjustments to keep close to atomic seconds. It's probably millions of years before leap seconds really become a problem here.
Atomic seconds a fixed unit of measurement but is affected by gravity (which means exactly where time is measured, the gravity the clock is affected by will in effect skew the measurement relative to somewhere else). You can stand on two different places on the planet with two of these clocks and the clocks will NOT be in perfect sync. Both observers will not be aware of the time skew (things don't seem to slow or speed up to either). *That* is relativity.
The funny thing is that implies the atomic second is a point of reference also to a *place* if we want to sync world clocks.
G
Guest
Cliff, I understand where you're coming from, but you're wrong. The definition of a second is completely divorced from planetary motion.
15 billion years is a REALLY long time. The sun, barring advanced tech, won't be here anymore (ergo, neither will earth). Our biology will likely have evolved by then to presently unimaginable states. We'll still need units of time. We'll still have to agree on a definition of something like a second that is defined by something intrinsic (like cesium hyperfine transitions).
Further, if we advance enough to engineer a solution to preserve both the sun and the earth, surely we can engineer some way to preserve the angular momentum of the Earth as well, and stop the slowing of the rotation. If that's the case, this argument is as futile as it seems already.
-guy w/a physics degree
15 billion years is a REALLY long time. The sun, barring advanced tech, won't be here anymore (ergo, neither will earth). Our biology will likely have evolved by then to presently unimaginable states. We'll still need units of time. We'll still have to agree on a definition of something like a second that is defined by something intrinsic (like cesium hyperfine transitions).
Further, if we advance enough to engineer a solution to preserve both the sun and the earth, surely we can engineer some way to preserve the angular momentum of the Earth as well, and stop the slowing of the rotation. If that's the case, this argument is as futile as it seems already.
-guy w/a physics degree
H
Hasbean
But surely the most important questions should be, can it sync with an iPhone? and can you buy it with the gold wrist strap?
Darth Shiv
Posts: 2,371 +886
Just to add to this point, they seem to make leap second adjustments pretty easily as per July 1st. It seems like the "solution" to keep things in kilter.
red1776
Posts: 5,124 +194
This is just bizarre. I suppose mankind could accurately measure time to 15 billion years as long as mankind continues to define a concept invented by humans. If something were to interfere with time/space...how would we know? as it would effect the strontium decay as well, unless of course it doesn't.
...The 'Branes' are banging in to each other!!! hehehe
...The 'Branes' are banging in to each other!!! hehehe
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Darth Shiv
Posts: 2,371 +886
It's all relative!
red1776
Posts: 5,124 +194
yup, thus the problem. As I have read several quantum physicists say...
"the first rule of quantum physics is, quantum physics makes no sense"
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