TechSpot

Like the old days: Why AMD and Nvidia are fighting?

By Julio Franco
Jun 30, 2014
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  1. AMD and Nvidia are at it again. The two reigning champs in the market for video game graphics have been fighting since late last month when some performance issues on the PC version of Watch Dogs kicked up a fresh...

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  2. VitalyT

    VitalyT Russ-Puss Posts: 3,149   +1,424

    That's just cats and dogs ;)
     
  3. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,891   +1,258

    If cats and dogs periodically changed skins.

    Richard Huddy (Paid by Intel) Bigs up Intels IGP....not so much when on the AMD payroll....or even telling us how great the GeForce4 and the "doubling of performance every six months" for those of us who remember when he was on Nvidia's dime.
    Roy Taylor (paid by Nvidia) - PhysX is the greatest thing since sliced bread
    Roy Taylor (paid by AMD) - PhysX is dead.

    If nothing else, it gets people talking graphics cards when there are no new graphics cards being released, but if you have the ability to retain information from further back than your last birthday it all seems a bit contrived.
     
    Phr3d, SalaSSin and Steve like this.
  4. Steve

    Steve TechSpot Editor Posts: 2,216   +1,240

    Nothing new....
     
  5. Circus and bread
     
  6. Kibaruk

    Kibaruk TechSpot Paladin Posts: 2,506   +498

    All I can say is I've enjoyed playing with AMD's offering all the way back when it was ATI, it's not because I'm a fanboy but because it's what I've seen working and has worked so good so far that am not inclined into changing it.

    If this is going to change because there is closed code that hampers with what I have... I'm bringing the hate to nvidia!
     
  7. VitalyT

    VitalyT Russ-Puss Posts: 3,149   +1,424

    Hard to choose where to camper, 'cos they both suck.............. power :)
     
  8. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 1,631   +432

    The difference is AMD offers source code to ISV's and nVIDIA offers dll's with Gameworks titles. That's huge.

    Mantle and Gameworks are in no way comparable. Mantle code can not affect nVIDIA cards. Also, AMD gives source code to ISV's nVIDIA also has access to, while Gameworks dlls lock AMD out.
     
  9. I always respect AMD since they promote open-source unlike Nvidia which is releasing all their product s as propriety e.g. Physx,Cuda,G-sync.I personally hate nvidia for crippling out batman franchise with their physx crap.
     
  10. Well said,Mantle is just an extra layer which will not be absent in nvidia cards but Gameworks is a companion to the game so thats makes a difference.
     
  11. amstech

    amstech TechSpot Enthusiast Posts: 1,455   +606

    As far as consoles holding games back, that's obvious. How embarrassing is it that these new high powered consoles are already behind?

    And about this
    It says everything about their performance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  12. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder This guy again... Posts: 2,191   +590

    Well said, and that is the main problem.

    Nvidia does this constantly, its been this way for years so this war is nothing new. Its been a long war and the same thing keeps happening over and over. I think Gameworks is just another form of PhysX in a sense so nothing has changed.
     
  13. ddg4005

    ddg4005 TS Guru Posts: 362   +49

    This reminds me of the argument between Nvidia and 3dfx regarding 32-bit and 16-bit color: Nvidia said it was the way forward for games and 3dfx countered that 16-bit was good enough. Everything old is new again.
     
  14. Graelock

    Graelock TS Rookie

    This isn't anything new. I remember realizing this back in 2002/ 2003. Most game boxes were either stamped with the ATI logo, or stamped with the Nvidia "The Way It Was Meant To Be Played," logo and it meant that the games were were tailored to that platform/ card..since each card manufacturer has completely different hardware. Guild Wars 1 was one such box stamped with ATI on it. I think the Unreal games were often branded with the Nvidia logo. Sometimes games even displayed the Nvidia splash screen on startup. This isn't new practice...maybe as far as sabotage, sure, but a hardware vendor who has won the bid to brand the game's box and perhaps be the lead platform/ card for which the games effects and code is based off of, sure.
     
  15. theBest11778

    theBest11778 TS Addict Posts: 233   +67

    I don't see what AMD's worried about. Obviously all of these games are coming to XBO & PS4, so the dev teams are familiar with AMD hardware. If Nvidia is cheating (They used to do this with Futuremark too,) then prove it, sue them, and they'll cut it out (unfair practice laws are there for a reason.)

    I personally prefer Nvidia cards, but not the Nvidia price. The R9 290 is the best Highend GPU for the money at the moment, however I'm running a GTX 750Ti because I prefer lower power draw & heat. Both companies have something to offer it just depends on what's most important to you.
     
    GhostRyder likes this.
  16. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,891   +1,258

    Both sides have been on the dubious optimization path since forever. IIRC, ATI actually got the ball rolling - leaving aside the Glide debate- by repackaging an existing card (the Rage Pro) as the NEW! Rage Pro Turbo - the only difference was a driver tailored or benchmarks - the supposed NEW card actually did poorly against the card it was supposedly replacing - seems optimizing a driver for benchmarks can mean that gameplay optimization gets sidelined.

    Also a little surprising that the article linked the ExtremeTech (as well as a raft of articles based upon the Forbes piece and its non-reproducible benchmarks) article but didn't link to the follow up article by the same site that included the views of actual game developers.

    Really, wouldn't you think that the views of game developers offer a better insight into the state of play rather than company mouthpieces and clickbait for brand orientated forum warriors?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  17. psycros

    psycros TS Evangelist Posts: 1,319   +709

    What absolute bulls**it. AMD doesn't have an *exclusive* optimization agreement with a single studio and NEVER HAS. AMD had *never* made a company sign an either-or agreement to gain access to the deepest levels of their driver code. Nvidia has done this for over a decade now. Get your facts straight, Techspot.
     
  18. darkzelda

    darkzelda TS Addict Posts: 251   +86

    Plain and simple, all pc games should be perfectly optimized for any brand of video cards. If a game doesn't run perfect on a R9 290, sorry, your game is a piece of crap. Who do we have to blame? Ubisoft or NVIDIA for sure
     
  19. Jad Chaar

    Jad Chaar TS Evangelist Posts: 6,477   +965

    Why are you blaming TechSpot? This was a Kotaku repost...

    Also, scroll down battlelog and you will see this: http://goo.gl/M7z4gX.

    It may not be an "exclusive optimization agreement", but it is pretty dang close to one.
     
  20. S_Brideau

    S_Brideau TS Rookie Posts: 65

    It also comes down to drivers which games run best. Never had any trouble with Nvidia Drivers and they are made to make the cards last longer, just look at how well old nvidia cards such as the GTX 460 can still run recent games decently. AMD cards though, never buying another one of them, the drivers keep crashing and the games don't look as good, and they don't have as much support.

    I do agree though that the closed way Nvidia deals with this (dll) should be more open, like AMD is doing with Mantle, but it's always been like that, let them do what they want and the best will win anyway.
     
  21. Toophat

    Toophat TS Rookie

    The point AMD is trying to make is that Gameworks is purposely putting in code that hinders AMD cards and that's the issue here not that nvidia is partnering up with developers/publishers since like you said above AMD does that as well and that is not what they are saying is the problem. AMD may also have partnered up too but in no way does AMD try to put in code to hinder nvidia cards and hurt gamers who own those cards and if you watch the interview AMD is willing to prove it by showing their contracts if nvidia shows there's. Also btw AMD wants mantle to be open to everyone including Nvidia so that Pc gaming takes a step forward instead of back with all this bickering and shady tactics that's is hurting pc gaming more then helping it and in fact its nvidia that does not want to.

    So you can see how this is a big problem is not everyone has same video card on pc like on a console and by nvidia doing this they are also hurting PC gamers and not just AMD while at same time this kind of behavior and tactics pretty much makes nvidia look like they want a monopoly on video cards. Honestly I like both nvidia and AMD video cards and have in fact owned both but if nvidia is in fact doing what is being claimed which I believe there's is some truth to the accusation considering it's not hard to believe given there is no love lost between both sides, I do not agree with this kind of tactic and believe that there should always completion and fair completion at that.
     
  22. First paragaraph classic story "I love X now and I will never buy Y again". I doubt you ever owned Y.
    Second paragraph. Classic "I'm not biased and X's behaviout is a bit dirty but let it be dirty and may the best wins". But is it really the best if it plays dirty to gain unfair advantage?
    Let the boxer punch you in the balls and in the end the best wins. Unlikely fair.
     

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