Read the question Microsoft asked! One of my pet peeves is people who don't bother to read and then complain based on their imagined reading.
Microsoft asks, would you sell back your digital games for 10 percent of what you paid?
- Thread starter Shawn Knight
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Read the question Microsoft asked! One of my pet peeves is people who don't bother to read and then complain based on their imagined reading.
sithalo
Posts: 11 +1
apparently its not trusted though. theres no reason to think they will sell your most personal information for any nefarious reason.
I could see what we search/play/watch being sold to marketing or developers or publishers or whatever but they are very very likely not going to sell actual personal information that could harm your character in any way. They are not going to share personal photos, they are not going to sell passwords to email and other sites, they are not going to reveal what kind of porn you look at if you do, they are not going to sell entered credit card numbers, ect.
just to often I see someone complain about not wanting their privacy violated but there is really no base for what they say. sure they could sell the info but everyone seems to act like their info would be sold for horrible reasons or whatever, but so could google, so could a ton of other websites that hold that kind of info, but they dont because there is normally no reason to sell any info unless its for marketing reasons.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
I really enjoy trying "to reason with" this recent crop of rookies. It sort of seems about as pointless as walking up behind a horse, lifting its tail, and talking to whatever lurks beneath it. And so it is with you. They come marching and charging in, sounding like they're part of the M$ propaganda corp, and high from a sugar overdose, after drinking a gallon and a half of "Windows 10 Kool-aid" at the company picnic. And so it is with you.
The new and "free" Windows 10, comes complete with a key logger. This is so M$ can tell exactly what you're doing on your computer at any given time.
Whether or not they sell your personal information, may not even be the overarching issue. There are principles at stake. First, I paid for this software. I full well realize that doesn't mean, "I own it", per se, but I do believe I am entitled to a modicum of privacy. M$ no longer intends to offer that with Windows 10. They're harvesting information, tracking you, and selling the information to advertisers the same as Google. Now Google can be brought under control, at least to some extent, by simply denying a couple of their scripts from running. Most notably, "googletagmanager", and particularly, "google-analytics.com". But to get rid of M$' invasion of privacy, you have to go deep into the bowels of your OS, up to, and including, editing the registry.
Now, if somebody other than M$ planted a key logger on your system, you'd be whimpering over at the "Virus & Malware Removal" forum, trying to mooch free help to get rid of it.
Here in this forum, you're busy quoting me, and thinking you know it all. Now, sometimes I enjoy answering stupid questions, and at others, it bugs the livin' poop out of me. A word to the wise.
Oh, and "welcome to Techspot".......er provisionally.
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Instead they get to worry about not being "allowed" to replay them a few years down the line with increasing 'always-online requirement' junk that essentially turns modern AAA games into "open-ended rentals with a kill-switch". Or the entire collection of hundreds of games valued at thousands of dollars disappearing should anything happen to the distributor in years to come... And will they pay cash or store credit? If the latter, then this is just another attempt at trying to make the Windows store seem relevant outside of mobile "apps".
Secondly, $6 is fair for an old game, but if you buy a $60 game first thing during release day and finish it by the same evening, has it really lost 90% of its value in just 12 hrs? Retail game discs, CD's, DVD's, Blu-Ray's, books, etc, certainly don't depreciate that quickly. Which goes to show how much of a ripoff digital-only stuff is in general when it's priced the same as physical goods despite lower distribution costs and locked rental rights vs ownership + resale value. Reminds me of some other "bargains" like many Amazon Kindle Ebooks / MP3's being priced higher than physical book / CD + postage combined. Or Amazon Prime "per episode / series" cost of the non-free stuff vs picking up a boxset on Ebay for 1/3rd to 1/2 of the price (and getting more back when you resell it yourself). No wonder they're all trying to do away with physical disks that aren't account-locked...
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sithalo
Posts: 11 +1
whats wrong with selling certain information to advertisers? the end result of that is that you are able to see more products like what you are interested in. yeh you are somewhat entitled to a bit of privacy. but there is almost no harm in keeping everything and as said selling it to advertisers is so they know what people like and to provide related products to people that like them. Its practically the same as contacting the advertisers your self and telling them that you dont want to see any more ads of a certain type.
if they keep everything typed from all the people who are using windows 10 then there is pretty much a mountain of garbage and a sliver of something useful in some way.
I dont think ik it all. if someone proves me wrong I gladly admit it, but no one is wrong here, im stating theres no reason to think microsoft is out to get you or get you in trouble and your stating that you dont want them keeping records of the many thousands of things you do.
if someone planted a key logger on my system id be googling how to solve the problem myself not crying and trying to mooch... and it depends on why and what for. some things are ok depending on what they are and why they are there.
For example a game called Warframe recently had a jerk raising up a fuss over the terms and services of the game because he was supposedly banned for accessing a friends game and that is against the EULA and TOS. He talked about how the developers of the game talked about during a video from the devs they had a member of the community on and one of the devs asked if they could log into the members account.
there are special circumstances there that keep the member and the developer from being bound completely to the EULA and TOS. Thinking other wise is like getting arrested for smashing up a convenience store and then complaining that they should be allowed to go free because someone who payed to smash up a fake convenience store isnt in trouble.
idk what type of rookie you think I am. I enjoy trying to reason with conspiracy theorist (which I dont think you are but this convo reminds me of talking to them) but im guessing this conversation will end the same as those and most other conversations now days. youll think what you want and ill think what ill want and youll likely insult me in your head or out loud or whatever thinking or talking about me as annoying or stupid or foolish or whatever.
or maybe it will go on and we will come to some kinda compromise where I concede some points and you concede some points and everyone comes away as a better person more or less. But considering your name, your rudeness in your last comment, your number of posts and the matter of subject being discussed im not holding my breath for a happy ending and betting on a neutral ending at best
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
I already have Google for this nonsense, and I don't need M$ ramming more ads down my throat via Windows.
I consider myself a fairly competent and prudent shopper. So here again, I don't need M$ to "shop for me", as it were.
If you're inept at to the point where you need M$ to find things for you to buy to satisfy your interests, god bless you. Maybe your local community college will offer an adult course on something like, "remedial money wasting on the Internet"
This is true to a certain extent. Who knows how much information M$ or the NSA actually keep, but the fact the NSA is doing it, seems to have a lot of people's panties in a bunch. So, if you're good with that, I'll be watching for the next "NSA invades everyone's privacy" thread, to make sure you're there spouting, "well if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide". After all, if M$ has your information and admits to it, then I expect M$ could be forced to give it to then. (Like I think that hasn't happened yet).
There's principles at stake here. I'm simply not going to drink Nadella's Kool-Aid, and that's that. If I pay for an OS then I expect an OS, not some piece of crap spyware which is starting to share features with, "Open Candy".
(y)
That's all fine and good but, it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Keep in mind I'm not being sanctimonious here. I'm a serial offender when it comes to being off topic. That said, I'd be talking about my cats, some movie, or possibly the weather, not trying to latch hook a Windows OS to a set of game rules The only thing you've managed to do here, is convince me the Windows and "Warframe", both have EULAs & TOS. That's way off the reservation with respect to advertising in Windows.
That's the difference between us. I don't care how it ends, when it ends, or even if it ends. If worse comes to worst, we both have the option of the "ignore" list.
You know, I replaced a video card and driver in one of my computers the other night. It's a Windows 7 machine, and I have it locked down to prevent M$ from trying to sneak Win 10 onto it via "Windows Update". Wouldn't you know, the first time I connected it to the web in months, here comes M$ blasting in telling me "I might have counterfeit software, and it needs to be activated". So, here I am, with a perfectly legal, bought and paid for OS, and I have these mutts accusing me of stealing it in the first words out of their servers mouth. Also keep in mind that installing a video card doesn't have enough of a point value to require reactivation (*).(allegedly), whereas changing the motherboard and believe it or not, the LAN card would. I don't know what you call it, but I tend to think of it as "slander", .or maybe, "defamation", and take offence at it. If this happened to you, the impression you give off is, that you'd blow them a kiss. And thus we differ.
(*) I think that story should demonstrate that there's already more than enough telemetry in windows 7 and prior editions, and we really don't need any more.
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You have just described every company in the world not just Microsoft
Technically you never own the game nowdays (or a software). you just buy a license or somewhat, to play the game trough a program like steam or origin, or just have a license for 1 year to use it - but hey, they offer 1 year more only for half prize!!! bul**hit. I do not know about consoles but I recall there are limitations too if no internet connection. so selling something that you have never owned is ironic.
I remember the good old days, I was 8 y/o, went out to the market with my parents to buy games on floppy disks and then you had the full game (if the floppy was undamaged and the archive was intact). Better times still
M$ is doing very sad things nowdays. I tought getting from win XP to win 7 was a bad thing....but I do not know what will I do when I have to transfer to win10 or some horrid OS as they are forcing you.
I remember the good old days, I was 8 y/o, went out to the market with my parents to buy games on floppy disks and then you had the full game (if the floppy was undamaged and the archive was intact). Better times still
M$ is doing very sad things nowdays. I tought getting from win XP to win 7 was a bad thing....but I do not know what will I do when I have to transfer to win10 or some horrid OS as they are forcing you.
I think there should be a lot more rules that govern how this works, the type of credit you get back, and the amount. A lot of people end up getting a lot of value out of a game, and that's what you're really paying for, fun game-play and entertainment. (As long as you enjoyed it and bought it after playing a demo, which more games need btw).
I do think they should either give you straight up money, or a choice of online game stores, but this also isn't something that has really been done yet for digital games, so Microsoft only offering credit doesn't surprise me.
If I pay 60 for a game and have a lot of fun like sinking 40 or more hours into it, I'm not worried about how much I get back for it. I've given a lot of my physical games away to people for free since I felt satisfied with the entertainment value I got out of the game. But getting money/credit to go towards more games, especially online stores (because a lot of them always have great deals), would be even better.
I do think they should either give you straight up money, or a choice of online game stores, but this also isn't something that has really been done yet for digital games, so Microsoft only offering credit doesn't surprise me.
If I pay 60 for a game and have a lot of fun like sinking 40 or more hours into it, I'm not worried about how much I get back for it. I've given a lot of my physical games away to people for free since I felt satisfied with the entertainment value I got out of the game. But getting money/credit to go towards more games, especially online stores (because a lot of them always have great deals), would be even better.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
Tell you what, M$ used to have "good times" too, even better than you've described. "Flight Simulator 2004" ,worked all the way through Windows 7, without so much as needing to set OS compatibility. It installed and run perfectly directly into Win 7. M$ also used to have, "Microsoft Works", which was a 30 buck stripped down version of M$ Office, but which did about 99+% of what the average home user of Office would ever need it for. Its "M$ Word" alone, was probably worth $30.., just to get you away from having to buy Office, simply to have a typewriter on your computer. You could still copy and paste web pages into it, then save them in "rich text" format, so as to make the documents portable. All of this makes a strong case for having a copy of Ubuntu loaded up and ready to go, simply to have, "Office Libre", at your disposalI remember the good old days, I was 8 y/o, went out to the market with my parents to buy games on floppy disks and then you had the full game (if the floppy was undamaged and the archive was intact). Better times still
M$ is doing very sad things nowdays. I tought getting from win XP to win 7 was a bad thing....but I do not know what will I do when I have to transfer to win10 or some horrid OS as they are forcing you.
Don't ask me to explain further, but this new CEO of M$, "Nadella", is no f***ing good. Final answer!
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It seems that google reads my mind and caters youtube videos to me. I have uverse installed; that's what it does. In other news, and I think not off topic is that for my eye procedures the doctor expects $5000 for the cataract and laser procedures and then socialized medicine instructs themselves and me to only pay her $550, and because one of them went wrong they're timid to ask me for the $100 I'm supposed to pay, getting only $450 for both procedures, both these done on one eye. I no longer need bifocals altho need glasses for distance; I can read techspot without the reading glasses/magnifying glass I used. Some glasses could cost $2000. Really cheap and finally I'm winning. Have to commend the seven day adventists which conduct the facility. It's just what I call the process of assumption. They serve oak brook, richest part of illinois in du page county and I assume they'd be like cedar sinai in beverly hills, ca. Unjealous of them. There's fraud involved just like when we won those radio station prizes in the 70s where you could only win every 30 days. We just sent them to a friends address, as they did here. They submitted the procedure twice to the insurance; once at the surgical center and once at thier doctor's office. They got paid 10 percent twice, so 20 percent. And actually, sterioids are know to cause cataracts, and some eyedrops they and optomitrists use have cortical steroids in them.
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sithalo
Posts: 11 +1
that warframe thing was actually related to the topic being discussed. Im talking about special circumstances where its more okish for someone to doit than someone else. Normally its not supposed to be ok for someone to play as someone else, Normally its not ok to have something key logging.
But id rather have a somewhat respectable company keeping up with certain infos in my mountain of useless data than some random person/s who got it on to actually steal my data for bad reasons.
but I do understand its the principle of the matter, trust & respect for privacy and all that. But even though its collecting data its not really breaking privacy. I mean it is but chances that someones actually going to go through the mountain of data for any reason is very low other than checking what you like. But I still get that some people just dont want any of that what so ever. Sorry : /
if they start using data like that to get people in trouble that didnt even do anything Minority Report style then ill get more upset at it. But for now its just for ads and whatever other little things they do with it and hopefully it wont reach that point.
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hahahanoobs
Posts: 5,219 +3,074
Well said.
Sadly, the internet is rife with fear-mongering - and it's incredibly annoying.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
Way back in the dark ages, when I was but a mere sprout of a stoner, I would wait until a few bowls had passed hands then interject, "if you really can't explain how the TV works, then how can you be sure it's not watching you, as you watch it"?
Now that's what I would consider, "fear mongering". Can you say"P-A-R-A-N-O-I-A"? Sure you can.
With that being said, nowadays that TV is watching you. It wants to know what you're thinking, where you shop, what you shop for, along with a host of other questions it has about you.
In fact, if they could adapt the iWatch to monitor when and how often you fart , they could probably sell that information to the manufacturers of "Beano".
So, with the amount of information being collected these days, Google, Amazon, and M$, pretty much know the entire contents of your home. Plus, after giving up quite a bit of your personal information to get the results of the online "IQ test" which many people do take, what you'll be told is your IQ, is far different from the much lower number which should be assigned.
All the data collection these large corporations are doing, is for THEIR benefit, not yours. Accordingly, born out of the simple fact I'm not a philanthropist, I didn't sign up for any "surveys", nor am I being paid for being involved with them, I'll keep as much of my personal data, as personal as I can, thank you very much.
I'll repeat this so the children can take a second stab of it sinking in"
Amazon collects all your data so they can take more of your money.
M$ collects your personal data to be certain you're not pirating their software, .along with selling it to advertisers so they can have a share of your money.
Google collects your data so they can sell "targeted advertising" and make billions of dollars a year doing so.
And yes every other big corporation on the planet does the same thing.
Now, none of this that I can determine, is in a private citizen's best interest. It only benefits the corporations undertaking the data collection. Now their propaganda arms might tell you different, but they're full of s***. It's their job to have you swallow hook, line, and sinker, whatever the sociopath / CEO of the month, wants you to believe. And once again, I'll link you to the "propaganda" page at Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda If you follow the bouncing ball there, you should be able to figure out why, when you're told you're being fed "sugar", it still tastes like poop....
So when I say, "they need to get their noses out of my a**", please don't call it "fear mongering", just call it "self interest", or maybe, "self preservation"..
Furthermore, I never said M$ had an evil purpose for their data collection. (In spite of the fact some people claim that Win 10 is phoning home to a myriad of IP addresses which don't belong to M$). I just said they're going to collect as little of mine as I can possibly prevent. If that pursuit involves not allowing then to invade my computer(s) with their shiny new, spyware infested, Windows 10, so be it.
You and your new "buddy" can do whatever you like with your data, I think you should get together and have a password party. That's where you paint the passwords to all your accounts on your door, throw open your blinds, and mic everything that's being said in your your entire house to the rented PA system outside.
Relax, nobody's trying to hurt you.
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hahahanoobs
Posts: 5,219 +3,074
Way back in the dark ages, when I was but a mere sprout of a stoner, I would wait until a few bowls had passed hands then interject, "if you really can't explain how the TV works, then how can you be sure it's not watching you, as you watch it"?
Now that's what I would consider, "fear mongering". Can you say"P-A-R-A-N-O-I-A"? Sure you can.
With that being said, nowadays that TV is watching you. It wants to know what you're thinking, where you shop, what you shop for, along with a host of other questions it has about you.
In fact, if they could adapt the iWatch to monitor when and how often you fart , they could probably sell that information to the manufacturers of "Beano".
So, with the amount of information being collected these days, Google, Amazon, and M$, pretty much know the entire contents of your home. Plus, after giving up quite a bit of your personal information to get the results of the online "IQ test" which many people do take, what you'll be told is your IQ, is far different from the much lower number which should be assigned.
All the data collection these large corporations are doing, is for THEIR benefit, not yours. Accordingly, born out of the simple fact I'm not a philanthropist, I didn't sign up for any "surveys", nor am I being paid for being involved with them, I'll keep as much of my personal data, as personal as I can, thank you very much.
I'll repeat this so the children can take a second stab of it sinking in"
Amazon collects all your data so they can take more of your money.
M$ collects your personal data to be certain you're not pirating their software, .along with selling it to advertisers so they can have a share of your money.
Google collects your data so they can sell "targeted advertising" and make billions of dollars a year doing so.
And yes every other big corporation on the planet does the same thing.
Now, none of this that I can determine, is in a private citizen's best interest. It only benefits the corporations undertaking the data collection. Now their propaganda arms might tell you different, but they're full of s***. It's their job to have you swallow hook, line, and sinker, whatever the sociopath / CEO of the month, wants you to believe. And once again, I'll link you to the "propaganda" page at Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda If you follow the bouncing ball there, you should be able to figure out why, when you're told you're being fed "sugar", it still tastes like poop....
So when I say, "they need to get their noses out of my a**", please don't call it "fear mongering", just call it "self interest", or maybe, "self preservation"..
Furthermore, I never said M$ had an evil purpose for their data collection. (In spite of the fact some people claim that Win 10 is phoning home to a myriad of IP addresses which don't belong to M$). I just said they're going to collect as little of mine as I can possibly prevent. If that pursuit involves not allowing then to invade my computer(s) with their shiny new, spyware infested, Windows 10, so be it.
You and your new "buddy" can do whatever you like with your data, I think you should get together and have a password party. That's where you paint the passwords to all your accounts on your door, throw open your blinds, and mic everything that's being said in your your entire house to the rented PA system outside.
Relax, nobody's trying to hurt you.
^That's the biggest case of butt hurt I've seen in a while! LMAO....
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
Which you obviously don't have an answer for.
Ooooo, cranky's butt hurt, oooo cranky's butt hurt.
That's why I come here, to mine your "intellect". (I'm doing "data collection". You don't mind, do you)?
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hahahanoobs
Posts: 5,219 +3,074
You want salt with that?
sithalo
Posts: 11 +1
All the data collection these large corporations are doing, is for THEIR benefit, not yours. Accordingly, born out of the simple fact I'm not a philanthropist, I didn't sign up for any "surveys", nor am I being paid for being involved with them, I'll keep as much of my personal data, as personal as I can, thank you very much.
Now, none of this that I can determine, is in a private citizen's best interest. It only benefits the corporations undertaking the data collection.
Amazon collects all your data so they can take more of your money.
M$ collects your personal data to be certain you're not pirating their software, .along with selling it to advertisers so they can have a share of your money.
Google collects your data so they can sell "targeted advertising" and make billions of dollars a year doing so.
You and your new "buddy" can do whatever you like with your data, I think you should get together and have a password party. That's where you paint the passwords to all your accounts on your door, throw open your blinds, and mic everything that's being said in your your entire house to the rented PA system outside.
Relax, nobody's trying to hurt you.
yes its for THEIR benefit but it normally will still benefit the consumer. They collect data and sell it to people and that benefits the data collectors, but then they wouldnt sell it if people didnt buy it and other groups buy it so they can provide more appropriate or better ads and products to consumers.
Like when you visit a food place like Waffle House or something often and order the same thing over and over and you go in one day and the waiter asks if you want ur usual and they have your meal to you faster than they did when you first started.
The people collected your data on what you ordered and seen what you ordered more often than other things and it works out for you in the long run. It benefits the people that buy the data but it only benefits them if they are able to use it to benefit the consumer. If it didnt benefit the consumer then they would loose money buying information and wouldnt buy it since there is no point buying information if they cant make money with it.
There is nothing that needs to sink in. Amazon does it to take more of your money but they only take your money if you see something that you like and decide to buy it. It provided you access to something you like enough so you buy it.
Microsoft has the right to make sure their products are not being stolen, and they sell data to people but they dont get your money directly. Advertisers make money because people see the ads so people buy the thing which the advertisers use to buy more info. You buy a product that you where interested in enough to buy.
Same with google, you are provided access to stuff you like enough to decide to spend money on it.
no im sure there are people who are trying to hurt us. But not the people that make money off of us. If they hurt us they loose business and end up not making as much money. Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Ect are not out to destroy the lives of a huge portion of their users.
and im not broadcasting my info out to everyone in a password party... there is, once again, a difference between someone keeping up with what I like to provide me better access to what I like and giving every random person that goes by my information... and like I said I get that you want your privacy and that its a matter of principle. Its just what you think.
captaincranky
Posts: 19,683 +8,823
More and more you sound like a shill for some corporation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're all being done this huge favor by having multinational corporations tell us how to spend our money. You should try floating this past a kindergarten class before you try floating it here.
Is that all it takes to massage your ego enough to crack out your wallet? That's sort of pathetic, if you think about it.
You may not realize this, but this has been the fulfillment of a life's ambition for me. Being given a refresher course in 5th grade civics by you. Spare me.
Well, since .the reason they call Amazon, "Amazon", is because the storefront is being compared to the Amazon rain forest, which contains more species than the rest of the world combined, I'd say it would be difficult NOT to find something to buy that you liked, whether or not they spammed the crap out of you with their recommendations. (Which they do).
Yes they do. And it would seem they've done a lot of research into developing the most classless way to check up on that.. And by the way, the more manufacturers spend on advertising, the higher the cost to the consumer becomes. Give that some thought. What is the difference between getting your money "directly" or indirectly". It ends up in the same pocket. Plus, it makes M$ a "middleman", which are a notorious pack of parasites. Good old Luke from the Bible has the best take on middlemen I've ever heard: " Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin":
Are you a professional shopping "consultant", or just a fool who will be soon parted with his money? Because all you seem to be fixated on, is how all this data collection can can help you spend it. On and on you go, "they collect data to help me spend my money".You really need to read that article on propaganda I linked
Perhaps not. But if I buy an operating system, I expect exactly that. I'm not inviting M$' new clown of a CEO into my home to look around and see what he thinks I should buy next
Are you really this infuriatingly dense not to be able to recognize the paragraph I wrote which you're quoting, was pure undiluted sarcasm?
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sithalo
Posts: 11 +1
becuase that is what it is used for. its not used for anything bad. its used to help people find out what people like. but this is how I expected it to go, you think uk and I think ik but neither of us actually knows so oh well
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