Microsoft built a datacenter that sat on the bottom of the Pacific ocean for three months

[captaincranky]

I understand your hatred of Microsoft has blinded you to pretty much anything rational.... but this story really doesn't have anything to do with their so-called evil... it's just a story about researching placement of datacenters under the sea... crankytroll, go troll somewhere else...

Not at all. I simply say there's always a difference between the press release and the truth. You seem to lap it up. I on the other hand, don't.

And BTW, you know what they say about sociopaths? "Takes one to know one". That said, who I see in the mirror is of no relevance to the discussion.


Now that we've traded social amenities, here's the real story. First of all, you're not a moderator.
Which means you've have zero authority to tell anyone what thread they should frequent.

Second, you don't know what, "the story behind the story is". You have no idea what M$' end game is on anything they tell the public.

Third, high level executives have a great deal in common with a sociopathic personality. They will say or do anything to move their agenda forward, regardless of whatever collateral damage may occur. The only thing that separates most of them from criminal sociopathy, is they are non violent, and can form limited bonds with friends & family, or at least maintain the appearance of such.

And lastly, I'm reporting your post again, along with my own, (my side of this story).

I may be a troll on occasion, but the fact remains, I usually reserve the treatment for "special people" like yourself, who are insufferably childish, annoying, and give themselves "field promotions" to amateur moderator.

 

[Kibaruk]

You take cold showers and wash your dishes with cold water to avoid climate change? Or just rather sit in -20 in winter with icicle hanging from your nose instead of turning on heating for not causing climate change? You mad bro?

I do take hot showers and turn on heating and bla bla bla, what I don't do is heat an entire lake, river or the ocean... you mad bro?

 

[Squid Surprise]

Not at all. I simply say there's always a difference between the press release and the truth. You seem to lap it up. I on the other hand, don't.

And BTW, you know what they say about sociopaths? "Takes one to know one". That said, who I see in the mirror is of no relevance to the discussion.


Now that we've traded social amenities, here's the real story. First of all, you're not a moderator.
Which means you've have zero authority to tell anyone what thread they should frequent.

Second, you don't know what, "the story behind the story is". You have no idea what M$' end game is on anything they tell the public.

Third, high level executives have a great deal in common with a sociopathic personality. They will say or do anything to move their agenda forward, regardless of whatever collateral damage may occur. The only thing that separates most of them from criminal sociopathy, is they are non violent, and can form limited bonds with friends & family, or at least maintain the appearance of such.

And lastly, I'm reporting your post again, along with my own, (my side of this story).

I may be a troll on occasion, but the fact remains, I usually reserve the treatment for "special people" like yourself, who are insufferably childish, annoying, and give themselves "field promotions" to amateur moderator.

OK.... nice tirade... so where is the hidden evil agenda from Microsoft in this story? They're secretly plotting global domination from under the sea? You constantly reply to threads with completely irrelevant nonsense... You can choose to believe or disbelieve the facts of this article, but if you see a hidden agenda here, feel free to state what it is...

 

[captaincranky]

OK.... nice tirade... so where is the hidden evil agenda from Microsoft in this story? They're secretly plotting global domination from under the sea? You constantly reply to threads with completely irrelevant nonsense... You can choose to believe or disbelieve the facts of this article, but if you see a hidden agenda here, feel free to state what it is...

I don't hate M$, that's where you're mistaken. I dislike immensely the dictatorial direction the new CEO Natella is taking the company. As for undersea data centers being "cheaper" than those on land, that might depend on where you put them, and how deep you have to put them. It's a slam dunk that you can't have IT techs on site to manage them. AFAIK, this was not much more than an experimental tin can, and keep in mind months are not years, nor are years decades.

Undersea internet cables have become a physical concern in the realm of cyber warfare. So too, would undersea data centers become vulnerable to attack. So, on one hand, while M$ is claiming "reduced costs", I'm saying that might not count the cost of our government's submarine fleet having to include them, (free of charge , of course), in their patrol duties.

OK, so a tiny hatchless, "data center" survived for a couple of months. What happens to a full scale underwater data center should require repair? Do you drag the whole thing up, or equip it with airlocks, and send techs down in submersibles to repair? In both cases, very expensive undertakings.

And really, even the Hubble Telescope required space missions to repair it. I like to see the bill for that service call.

A press release is always engineered to spread sunshine around, and state the "demons have all been killed". I believe differently.

You've already proved my point about the lying which goes on without knowing it in this thread: https://www.techspot.com/community/...ll-only-be-compatible-with-windows-10.223081/
You claim M$ is "lying" about CPU compatibility. I'm guessing that's either for the convenience of the argument, or your own comfort. So, lying is good when it suits you, and missing when it doesn't.

The issue of lack of compatibility itself is already rearing it's ugly, pointy little, M$ head, with respect to installing Win 7 on a new board. M$ is purposely omitting the necessary drivers from Windows 7 (*), in order to make it's installation much more difficult in new boards to computer savvy individuals, and impossible to the person on the street.

M$' last CEO, Steve Baumer was a clown, this one is dangerous, plain and simple.

(*) M$ could have very easily enabled windows 7's installation via update, and I'm of the opinion they could have done the same with DX-12, or a reasonable facsimile.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Lol... the article doesn't say anything about how the demons have all been killed... had you actually read the "press release" (it's not a press release, just an article from MS' news division, but whatever), you'd see that it's basically just giving information as to possible, hypothetical datacenter futures... I found it interesting that one of the main people responsible was someone who'd been in the Navy working on submarines...

And so happy you've brought back the other article that you also had no comprehension of... there was no "lying"... I simply stated that compatible and support are not necessarily the same thing, yet many people (sometimes including MS itself) confuse them. For the millionth time, you aren't being forced to upgrade to Windows 10 - Windows XP/7/8 will all continue to work perfectly fine on their existing hardware... It's only hardware that isn't even for sale yet that won't support Windows 10 - and again, why on Earth would you want to install an obsolete version of Windows then?!!?

I'm curious as to your opinion on Apple... They actually do force you to upgrade their OS when using new hardware - you simply CAN'T put an older iOS on a new iPhone - you can't even downgrade (unless you use 3rd party software, and that is still hit and miss depending on hardware and iOS version). Compared to them, MS is practically saintly when it comes to OS choice...

 

[captaincranky]

Lol... the article doesn't say anything about how the demons have all been killed... had you actually read the "press release" (it's not a press release, just an article from MS' news division, but whatever), you'd see that it's basically just giving information as to possible, hypothetical datacenter futures... I found it interesting that one of the main people responsible was someone who'd been in the Navy working on submarines...

Well then, that sounds sort of prejudicial in favor of the idea. "Hey, I used to work on submarines, here's a great idea". Maybe it is with respect to job security for naval personnel Now please, explain to me why you think it''s a good idea the next generation of IT employees might need Navy SEAL training on their resumes.

And I'm giving hypothetical reasons against the idea. Which IIRC, you yourself asked for.

And so happy you've brought back the other article that you also had no comprehension of... there was no "lying"... I simply stated that compatible and support are not necessarily the same thing, yet many people (sometimes including MS itself) confuse them. For the millionth time, you aren't being forced to upgrade to Windows 10 - Windows XP/7/8 will all continue to work perfectly fine on their existing hardware... It's only hardware that isn't even for sale yet that won't support Windows 10 - and again, why on Earth would you want to install an obsolete version of Windows then?!!?

Oh good grief, don't accuse anyone of having "no comprehension" on any topic here. Lying can be done by omission. It's you who cherish the idea that when someone at M$ says, "the next generation of CPU will only be compatible with Windows 10", you're the one who chooses to fill in the blanks with whatever you'd like to hear, or whatever coincides with your brute force agenda of never being wrong about anything. Even when very often, you are.

And for the 50th time, I wouldn't want to put Windows 10 on new hardware, because of privacy issues, and no choice in refusing updates. If I turn off their keylogger, I don't want them turning it back on three weeks later.

And since we're on the topic of "obsolete OS", AFAIK, Windows 10 is still based on the "NT kernel", .which really is, at least 2 decades old. Wiki agrees with me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

I'm curious as to your opinion on Apple... They actually do force you to upgrade their OS when using new hardware - you simply CAN'T put an older iOS on a new iPhone - you can't even downgrade (unless you use 3rd party software, and that is still hit and miss depending on hardware and iOS version). Compared to them, MS is practically saintly when it comes to OS choice...

Never bought an Apple product, never will. That's why M$' current behaviours are setting off all kinds of alarms. The JO they have running the place, is trying to force Apple's tactics on Windows users.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I accuse you of either a) not comprehending or b) just being a troll...

I suspect it's a little bit of both... and you DO have the option of turning off updates - just get the Pro version of Windows 10... and YES, you can turn off all the "keyloggers" and other things you hate about Windows 10... you just choose to ignore that...

And your argument that Windows 10 is obsolete because it is based on NT Kernel.... so what does that make your cherished Windows 7 and 8!?!?!?

 

[cliffordcooley]

you DO have the option of turning off updates - just get the Pro version of Windows 10

I do have pro and no you can't turn off automatic updates. Scheduling updates is not turning them off, they are still automatically installed.

 

[Squid Surprise]

It's not exactly easy - MS doesn't want people to do it... but Google will tell you how.... Or I will below 2 basic ways... through Group Policy or through the registry (I'd leave the registry alone unless you know what you're doing though!)

You can also use the Windows services administration tool, but that turns all updates off and you might want to pick and choose...

If you just want to delay it, you can "trick" Windows by setting your internet connection as "metered" and then tell Windows not to download updates when connected to a metered connection (I believe that's the default anyways).
____________
Use Group Policy to Disable Automatic Updates - Pro, Education or Enterprise only

There’s actually an option that will let you choose how updates are installed on your own schedule, but it’s buried in Group Policy. Only Professional, Enterprise, and Education editions of Windows 10 have access to the Group Policy editor. To access the group policy editor, press Windows Key + R, type "gpedit.msc" into the Run dialog, and press Enter.

Locate the “Configure Automatic Updates” setting in the right pane and double-click it. Set it to “Enabled,” and then select your preferred setting. For example, you can choose “Auto download and notify for install” or “Notify for download and notify for install.” Save the change.

Visit the Windows Update pane, click “Check for updates,” and then select “Advanced options.” You should see your new setting enforced here. You’ll also see a note saying “Some settings are managed by your organization,” informing you that these options can only be changed in Group Policy.

To disable this later, go back to the Group Policy editor, double-click the “Configure Automatic Updates” setting, and then change it from “Enabled” to “Not configured.” Save your changes, visit the Windows Update pane again, click “Check for updates,” and then select “Advanced options.” You’ll see everything change back to the default setting. (Windows Update only seems to notice the setting change after you click “Check for updates.”)

Using the Registry

The exact setting you’ll need to change is under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU — you’ll need to create the last few keys there. Create a DWORD value named “AUOptions” under the AU key and give it one of the following values:

00000002 (Notify for download and notify for install)
00000003 (Auto download and notify for install)
00000004 (Auto download and schedule the install)

_______________________

 

[captaincranky]

I accuse you of either a) not comprehending or b) just being a troll...

I suspect it's a little bit of both... and you DO have the option of turning off updates - just get the Pro version of Windows 10... and YES, you can turn off all the "keyloggers" and other things you hate about Windows 10... you just choose to ignore that...

And your argument that Windows 10 is obsolete because it is based on NT Kernel.... so what does that make your cherished Windows 7 and 8!?!?!?

Actually, XP is my cherished OS. And well, antiques are a big business the world around. Besides, I never said Win 10 was obsolete, I simply said it wasn't new, sharing a big chunk of all Windows prior releases. For someone who allegedly has a teaching certificate, you have a truly unorthodox method of interpreting the written word. "Inept", is the word that springs to mind. You see what you want to see, you respond with whatever is convenient. In all honesty, I don't believe you even have a place in a tech forum. But please, stay as long as you like. I have no intention of "moderating this discussion, or any other..

I have M$ Flight Simulator 2004. Which by the way is discontinued, along with M$ "Flight Simulator X". Amazon now wants $124.00 for the former, and close to $200.00 for the latter. Why does that matter in this topic, I hear you asking? Because M$ unceremoniously pulled the plug on "FS X", and left many software publishers in the lurch. These software publishers wrote extension packs for the basic simulator. The franchise was a bother to M$, and so screw everyone else.

Now, Mr. Cooley says he has Windows 10 and you can't turn off the updates:

I do have pro and no you can't turn off automatic updates. Scheduling updates is not turning them off, they are still automatically installed.

Now, by your standards, I suppose that makes him, "uncomprehending, or a "troll" as well.

Since Cliff has been in these forums for at least as long as myself, (about a decade), and is at least as knowledgeable, I'm going to take his word for the update situation in Windows 10, as opposed to the crap you spray around.

 

[captaincranky]

It's not exactly easy - MS doesn't want people to do it... but Google will tell you how.... Or I will below 2 basic ways... through Group Policy or through the registry (I'd leave the registry alone unless you know what you're doing though!)

You can also use the Windows services administration tool, but that turns all updates off and you might want to pick and choose...

If you just want to delay it, you can "trick" Windows by setting your internet connection as "metered" and then tell Windows not to download updates when connected to a metered connection (I believe that's the default anyways).
____________
Use Group Policy to Disable Automatic Updates - Pro, Education or Enterprise only

There’s actually an option that will let you choose how updates are installed on your own schedule, but it’s buried in Group Policy. Only Professional, Enterprise, and Education editions of Windows 10 have access to the Group Policy editor. To access the group policy editor, press Windows Key + R, type "gpedit.msc" into the Run dialog, and press Enter.

Locate the “Configure Automatic Updates” setting in the right pane and double-click it. Set it to “Enabled,” and then select your preferred setting. For example, you can choose “Auto download and notify for install” or “Notify for download and notify for install.” Save the change.

Visit the Windows Update pane, click “Check for updates,” and then select “Advanced options.” You should see your new setting enforced here. You’ll also see a note saying “Some settings are managed by your organization,” informing you that these options can only be changed in Group Policy.

To disable this later, go back to the Group Policy editor, double-click the “Configure Automatic Updates” setting, and then change it from “Enabled” to “Not configured.” Save your changes, visit the Windows Update pane again, click “Check for updates,” and then select “Advanced options.” You’ll see everything change back to the default setting. (Windows Update only seems to notice the setting change after you click “Check for updates.”)

Using the Registry

The exact setting you’ll need to change is under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU — you’ll need to create the last few keys there. Create a DWORD value named “AUOptions” under the AU key and give it one of the following values:

00000002 (Notify for download and notify for install)
00000003 (Auto download and notify for install)
00000004 (Auto download and schedule the install)

_______________________

So basically you have to descend into the bowels of the OS, to afford yourself the freedom of choice you once had by simply clicking, "Control Panel". Good to know, I suppose.

Keep in mind this jibes with what I posted about the similarity of the Window kernels and editions. There's a lot more Windows 7 in Windows 10, than M$ would ever be wont to admit.

Which is interesting, but still leaves to noobs running around crying in their beer, thinking they'll either have to buy a new computer, or can't avoid the Win 10 install at all.

So, if you're correct, we come back to lying by omission, by virtue of the fact M$ is withholding information. Primarily, they likely could have incorporated drivers into win 7 to allow it to be easily installed into new hardware. Your favorite, "about compatibility", and neglecting to mention all the new monitoring and telemetry being sent to M$ specifically in this edition of Windows.

Now, believe what you choose, but any CEO who claims they're doing you a favor with "a free new OS", has an agenda based on own their goals and ambitions, not the end users.

I said in an earlier post, "Baumer was a clown, and Natella is dangerous", nothing is going to sway those opinions. The reason Baumer is gone, is Windows 8(.0) was his disaster, and Natella is bound and determined not to get cash flow bogged down by keeping an OS that virtually everyone likes, (Win 7), the way many of us still embrace XP.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Lol... I love how you state that I have no business being on a tech site while I'm the one who stays on topic, cites sources to back up my claims, while you just spout nonsense and rarely, if ever, back up any of your crap...

I never said that MS was offering you Windows 10 for free out of the goodness of their own hearts - now who's misinterpreting English?
Yes, MS gets something out of it - that does not mean that this is bad for the end user though! Since it's free, in fact, I see very little to complain about - the "privacy concerns", while disturbing IN PRINCIPLE, really don't affect you... they're using the info they get to improve their own product - yes, to make more money, but this also BENEFITS the end user! They're not using your private info to secretly steal your credit card information or your girlfriend... and again, you can always opt NOT to allow MS to take your information - it's in your settings, as well as when you initially install Windows 10.

Natella may be pure evil, she may not... I've never met her... but I don't really think this enters into a thread about datacenters under the sea...

 

[captaincranky]

Lol... I love how you state that I have no business being on a tech site while I'm the one who stays on topic, cites sources to back up my claims, while you just spout nonsense and rarely, if ever, back up any of your crap....

Actually, when I do back things up, you conveniently fail to notice it.

Since we're already way off topic, let's finish up with the update situation.

The majority of Windows 10 owners will be of the "Home Edition" variety. Which means they will have telemetry forced on them, and they will have mandatory updates forced on them.

This was already the case with my doctor, who was asking me "what can I do with my computer, it hasn't worked right since I allowed the Windows 10 update". She isn't familiar with registry editing, and has resigned herself to buying a new computer.

As for "undersea data centers", there are simply so many variables and unknowns involved in their implementation, it would be difficult for anybody to claim a "win" on the topic. In fact, whoever claims the "I told you so", will more than likely be 30 years older than they are now.

 

[Squid Surprise]

The "metered connection" works fine for Windows 10 Home version too... so you don't have to be "forced" into updating... but those who AREN'T paranoid probably don't mind updating... Remember, the vast majority of updates are there to BENEFIT the user - generally making the OS more secure by plugging vulnerabilities...those that aren't can be deferred indefinitely...

And yes, we are way too far away from finding out whether undersea datacenters are viable - this article doesn't pretend otherwise - it just talks about some of the hurdles and some of the early planning.... which is why your childish "MS is plotting evil" nonsense has no place in this thread...

 

[captaincranky]

The "metered connection" works fine for Windows 10 Home version too... so you don't have to be "forced" into updating... but those who AREN'T paranoid probably don't mind updating... Remember, the vast majority of updates are there to BENEFIT the user - generally making the OS more secure by plugging vulnerabilities...those that aren't can be deferred indefinitely...

And yes, we are way too far away from finding out whether undersea datacenters are viable - this article doesn't pretend otherwise - it just talks about some of the hurdles and some of the early planning.... which is why your childish "MS is plotting evil" nonsense has no place in this thread...

You just really can help but to run your yap with a little dig at the end of any statement, can you?

As far as M$, its products, its practices, and its objectives go, none of them are really to benefit the consumer, just to solidify their monopoly on the PC OS market.

Every once in a while they throw you a bone, like the elusive DX-12. BTW, I've heard you gnawing on that for a bit..

M$ has has its share of product flops and foibles. It seems they're going to force this one to be a success, no matter how many people's throats they have to ram it down.

(This is the op-ed section of the forum, and that's mine. Like it, lump it or report it).;

 

[cliffordcooley]

Remember, the vast majority of updates are there to BENEFIT the user

Benefit? Finding the need in removing apps every time Windows automatically updates builds is not a BENEFIT. Scheduling reboots automatically when a machine is meant to continue running is not a BENEFIT. The BENEFIT would be to continue letting us choose whether we want to receive updates automatically or manually. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops because some User Friendly option we've had for nearly two decades was taken from us.

However Windows Updates is not the topic. Can we get back to disagreeing on the expenses, size, construction schedule, and etc... of the Data Center?

 

[captaincranky]

...[ ]...However Windows Updates is not the topic. Can we get back to disagreeing on the expenses, size, construction schedule, and etc... of the Data Center?

There are no down sides to an underwater data center. As near as I can tell, a M$ press release is a good as a pair of stone tablets to some here.

Thus, what the "discussion" amounts to is "arguing with the word of God". Maybe we should go for, "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin in an underwater data center". Hey, don't knock it until you've tried counting them.

 

[SirGCal]

How do you change a bad drive or faulty stick of ram?

 

[captaincranky]

How do you change a bad drive or faulty stick of ram?

As you probably know, we have long ago entered the age of disposable electronics. With that said, you never replace anything. Build it with sufficient redundancy for its "projected lifespan", and sink it.

I would like to point out, I don't think this is even remotely close to the good idea M$ is using to grab headlines with, but I suppose time will tell.

 

[SirGCal]

How do you change a bad drive or faulty stick of ram?

As you probably know, we have long ago entered the age of disposable electronics. With that said, you never replace anything. Build it with sufficient redundancy for its "projected lifespan", and sink it.

I would like to point out, I don't think this is even remotely close to the good idea M$ is using to grab headlines with, but I suppose time will tell.

I don't know any industry that uses servers that you can't replace the most basic items. Why let a major server be crippled by $100 stick of ram? Even if it can drop it and run on what's left. Put in a new stick and keep going at 100%. You can buy the best of the best but there are no guarantees. The simplest and smallest of problems will occur.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Robots It's all about robots! They'll do all the work from now on

 

[captaincranky]

I don't know any industry that uses servers that you can't replace the most basic items. Why let a major server be crippled by $100 stick of ram? Even if it can drop it and run on what's left. Put in a new stick and keep going at 100%. You can buy the best of the best but there are no guarantees. The simplest and smallest of problems will occur.

Well, I was being facetious with the answer I gave you.

There's a lot going on here. M$ sunk a small tin can of a data center, and is claiming an overwhelming success with the experiment, specifically citing massive amounts "water cooling" available for the electronics. However, I don't believe heat dissipation would be as effective if the internal volume were increased. At the very least, it would require that provisions be made for some sort of circulation strategy to the innermost components.

AFAIK, modern blade servers need pretty capable fans in them in order to survive. That said I don't think convective cooling provided the outer shell would be sufficient.

In direct answer to your original question, it may come to pass that the next generation of techs may require Navy SEAL training along with electronic repair courses.

Robots It's all about robots! They'll do all the work from now on

It's hard to imagine a fatter, lazier crop of humans than we have now. However, I'm sure that an all robot labor world, would have a good shot at growing us to the point of being incapable to move without robot assistance. It's sort of a zen really. "Robots, you can't live with them, but you can't live without them".

All kidding aside, what the hell do you do when your underwater server robot repairman breaks down?

You can see where the land versus undersea data center cost analysis concept has been "ever so slightly" embellished in favor of M$' press release on the topic.

I suggest we all take a break and read, (or in my case at least reread), Huxley's, "Brave New World", for an overview of what our society has become.

Anyway, perhaps this is the reason that Communism is currently struggling a bit. How can you maintain the appearance of sanity delivering the old party greeting, "honor to labor", when nobody does, or wants to do, squat.