Microsoft now blocks Windows 7 and 8.1 updates on Kaby Lake, Ryzen systems

[Mr Dude]

I'm all for seeing Win 7 and 8.1 off into the Abyss. Win10 is great, but I've got no doubt it would be better if Microsoft could use all those resources and dedicate them solely to their 'latest' OS. Imagine having to support multiple OS's? If I was running that company I would be looking for any reason to send them to their graves, and concentrate on the 'now' and the 'future'. I really don't see why people have such a problem with this. I stopped using Windows 3.11 for Workgroups a LONG time ago. Never looked back. Get over it.

Didn't you get the memo? You either use Linux or Windows 7 or you're not one of the cool kids.

 

[Skidmarksdeluxe]

This reminds me of the one time I bought a Mac.

No doubt a bad time in your life. Hopefully you've learned something from that serious blunder.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

I'm all for seeing Win 7 and 8.1 off into the Abyss. Win10 is great, but I've got no doubt it would be better if Microsoft could use all those resources and dedicate them solely to their 'latest' OS. Imagine having to support multiple OS's? If I was running that company I would be looking for any reason to send them to their graves, and concentrate on the 'now' and the 'future'. I really don't see why people have such a problem with this. I stopped using Windows 3.11 for Workgroups a LONG time ago. Never looked back. Get over it.

Except that Microsoft sold windows 7 and 8 with 10 years of security update. That's part of the lisence, and now that are refusing to honor that promise.

Windows 8.1 still has 6 years of security updates left. Anybody who bought windows 8.1 four years ago and wants a new processor has to give up over half of the support they bought.

This move is purely a greed filled money grab to force users to buy windows 10. I'm sure it's going to backfire PR wise, and may slow down the purchase of new hardware on top of said hardware offering only negligible benefit from five year old platforms.

Not supporting new features on old software is one thing. MS refusing to patch windows 7 and windows 8 to benefit from AMD's new features makes sense, as both are out of the feature update windows. But to refuse SECURITY PATCHES on older software running on newer hardware? There is no technical reason to do that. That move is going to piss off end users, and business users who are still running windows 7, and are basically being told they are not allowed to buy any new hardware for the next three years to run the OS they bought from MS, until they fork overs loads of cash to MS for the newest version, even though their is no technical reason the new hardware cant run 7. Especially places like hospitals, banks, and schools that have to support old software that vendors wont update until the last minute are all going to pitch a fit over this move.

 

[Trillionsin]

I'm late to the comments, but one thing I think they are trying to prevent is people using a Windows 7 key and upgrading for free to Windows 10.

Yes, there's way to get or use Windows 7 keys to do this and I may or may not have been doing it.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Except that Microsoft sold windows 7 and 8 with 10 years of security update. That's part of the lisence, and now that are refusing to honor that promise.

Windows 8.1 still has 6 years of security updates left. Anybody who bought windows 8.1 four years ago and wants a new processor has to give up over half of the support they bought.

This move is purely a greed filled money grab to force users to buy windows 10. I'm sure it's going to backfire PR wise, and may slow down the purchase of new hardware on top of said hardware offering only negligible benefit from five year old platforms.

Not supporting new features on old software is one thing. MS refusing to patch windows 7 and windows 8 to benefit from AMD's new features makes sense, as both are out of the feature update windows. But to refuse SECURITY PATCHES on older software running on newer hardware? There is no technical reason to do that. That move is going to piss off end users, and business users who are still running windows 7, and are basically being told they are not allowed to buy any new hardware for the next three years to run the OS they bought from MS, until they fork overs loads of cash to MS for the newest version, even though their is no technical reason the new hardware cant run 7. Especially places like hospitals, banks, and schools that have to support old software that vendors wont update until the last minute are all going to pitch a fit over this move.

You bought Windows 7/8 for existing hardware at the time... which did NOT include Ryzen or Kaby Lake... Windows 7/8 are still supported for the EXISTING hardware that you installed it on.

Once you bought a new CPU, you no longer have any right to Windows 7/8 support on the new hardware! And OEM licenses are only Windows 10 now so chances are, your new PC (which the vast majority of users with Ryzen and Kaby Lake will have) will simply come with Windows 10 anyways.

It's not like MS is using this "evil business practice" to shut out the competition either... Windows 7 and Windows 8 are also made by MS!!

It's like an alarm company selling you an alarm system for your apartment... you love it - it works great, came with 10 years of support... but then you move into a new house... the alarm company says, we have a new system for you now - your old one isn't sufficient for the new house, but here's a FREE one that works for you! It's not exactly the same - has some new features, has an interface you might not be used to....but if you do a bit of research, you can make this system work almost exactly the same way your old one did,,,

Or... you can use your old alarm system in your new house - no more support - but hey, some people roll that way

 

[Trillionsin]

into network settings and saved networks to check the password, this isn't possible on windows 10 unless you are already connected to the network,

...but you can, and I've done it. Or I dont understand what you are saying. If you havent set up the network at all, why would you expect to find the password?

You can also still access the old control panel in windows 10. I havent noticed much of this hiding. Maybe some examples?

 

[OcelotRex]

Stop living in the past - like it or not, Windows 10 will be the OS of the future - so just give in, install the bloody thing, and live with it

I did, but that is not the point.

Having to intentionally program a Windows Update block, to out-date an OS with the use of new hardware is outrageous. This is a tactic that should be unlawful.

Stop being cheap and buy Windows 10 Pro.

 

[OcelotRex]

Fast forward to new wireless card and windows 10. I did not have the wireless password for the wifi, he set it up on all the computers in the house for me and I was very thankful for that. I didn't see this as a problem as I was always able to go into network settings and saved networks to check the password, this isn't possible on windows 10 unless you are already connected to the network, here comes the problem. In windows 10, each saved network is linked to the wireless card. I plugged in my wireless card and couldn't connect. This being 11 at night and everyone sleeping I couldn't exactly go into the other rooms and check the passwords on the other computers. This is just another stupid road block the was completely unnessisary. I ended up booting into linux minute, then I realized I never set up the new network in linux so I didn't have the password.

In W7 this never would have been a problem because once you are logged into your account you have access to all this information. It also doesn't link saved networks to wireless cards for your "security". W10 tries to hold your hand in every possible way and it just makes it difficult for any user who doesn't want to just browse facebook and watch netflix.

The issue is not the OS here - the issue is you didn't properly manage your network.

You not knowing your wifi password then blaming Win10 is especially rich considering you should be angry at your ISP for not leaving you with the information you needed.

 

[OcelotRex]

If the upgrade to windows 10 from windows 7/8x is still free, then why not... but since the upgrade now costs ~100$+, then most likely, previous OS users will become more vulnerable to security loopholes as they are now officially and forcefully left behind...

It was free for more than a year. You could also get the upgrade then revert back ensuring you could upgrade in the future for free. There's no excuse to not have a free version of Win10.

 

[amstech]

You can still upgrade to Windows 10 for free via a backdoor method, Techspot even has an article on it.
Also, when you reformat your drive and re-install Windows 7, it asks you on the first or second boot if you want to upgrade your OS.
I just got Windows 7 for $6 on ebay and upgraded my AM3 based HTPC from XP 64bit, during bootup I got that message but I denied that sh!t because I'm sexy and I know it.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Stop being cheap and buy Windows 10 Pro.

I do have Windows 10 Pro.

 

[OcelotRex]

I do have Windows 10 Pro.

Okay then why did you describe it thusly:

Having to intentionally program a Windows Update block...

Windows update can be controlled through the group policy in Pro. "Program(ming) a Windows Update block" specifically reads as though you're using Win10 Home where updates are less controllable.

 

[Kenrick]

Cool. The only valid reason is to move everyone to windows 10 so that they will have more beta testers.

Win 7 user here.. Stability is my priority. also, Old folks I helped in their computer prefer the simplicity of win7.

 

[yRaz]

...but you can, and I've done it. Or I dont understand what you are saying. If you havent set up the network at all, why would you expect to find the password?

You can also still access the old control panel in windows 10. I havent noticed much of this hiding. Maybe some examples?

When you install a new network card your saved networks don't transfer over to the new card on windows 10 for "security" reasons.

The issue is not the OS here - the issue is you didn't properly manage your network.

You not knowing your wifi password then blaming Win10 is especially rich considering you should be angry at your ISP for not leaving you with the information you needed.

I'm usually pretty good about managing my network, but it got exhausting after dealing with Comcast blaming my network settings and repeatedly replacing my router. I was just happy when I got home from work I didn't have to spend a hour setting everything back up. I use a randomly generated 16 character key as a password for my wireless network and I have never even attempted to remember it. The tech cha he'd the network name and password on the router. Every time I've had to give someone the Wi-Fi password I just go to wireless settings>saved networks>showpassword. I have been doing this exact same thing since I got my first wireless router in 2003. Its quick and easy.

 

[OcelotRex]

When you install a new network card your saved networks don't transfer over to the new card on windows 10 for "security" reasons.


I'm usually pretty good about managing my network, but it got exhausting after dealing with Comcast blaming my network settings and repeatedly replacing my router. I was just happy when I got home from work I didn't have to spend a hour setting everything back up. I use a randomly generated 16 character key as a password for my wireless network and I have never even attempted to remember it. The tech cha he'd the network name and password on the router. Every time I've had to give someone the Wi-Fi password I just go to wireless settings>saved networks>showpassword. I have been doing this exact same thing since I got my first wireless router in 2003. Its quick and easy.

While it may be quick and easy it also sets you up for the situation you've described. Attributing it to your OS ignores the issue of not knowing the password. There are plenty of hardware and software solutions along with the simple fix of writing the password down and storing it physically somewhere.

 

[yRaz]

While it may be quick and easy it also sets you up for the situation you've described. Attributing it to your OS ignores the issue of not knowing the password. There are plenty of hardware and software solutions along with the simple fix of writing the password down and storing it physically somewhere.

My point here is that I should get to decide how I want to use the software I paid for. Those are MY saved networks and that is MY information and I should be able to access however I please.

While I am willing to admit this was a result of some laziness after fighting with Comcast for a year, I have to ask, why are you so determined to blame me for this? I had been doing this for 10 years, why did MS need to make the change. Instead if blaming me I'd like you to justify why this change was necessary.

 

[Adhmuz]

My point here is that I should get to decide how I want to use the software I paid for. Those are MY saved networks and that is MY information and I should be able to access however I please.

Ah, now I understand, after reading your countless posts about your inability to understand your own shortcomings I see why this is supposed to be relevant. You believe because you have paid for software that you should have the right to use it how you see fit and it should be the same as a previous version of the software you had. However in reality you're simply paying for the right to use what Microsoft owns and created, you can try and manipulate it in to working how you like and so forth, but if you are unable to do so don't simply blame everyone else for your problems; Microsoft for not allowing you to see your password which you should have saved somewhere, Comcast for not providing you with a password and locking you out of your own network. With all this time and effort you have lost dealing with wireless problems you could have instead just wired your house and been done with it.

you can TL;DR all you want, but there is a lot in there that you can learn about networking on different OS's by reading that post. This is especially important if you use windows 10 and want to learn about future flaws you may have to deal with.

Ummm, not so much, anyone who does know how to setup networks properly won't ever fall in to a situation such as yourself. Besides half of your comment there was pure rant about Comcast being crap, agreed, and Windows 10 not suiting your needs adequately, irrelevant to most.

Stop being cheap and buy Windows 10 Pro.

Or find an old workstation with a Windows 7 pro key on the side and use that, there's enough companies that just toss these old PCs away that still have valid keys on the side, keys that work with Windows 10 apparently, I used one with a clean install of 10 and it worked flawlessly.

 

[erickmendes]

I think this move from MS is intended at the corporate user... It's the only way the can twist the enterprise arms to upgrade away from W7...
I work in a gov branch with somewhere close to 2000 PCs, and it's all W7...

 

[OcelotRex]

Or find an old workstation with a Windows 7 pro key on the side and use that, there's enough companies that just toss these old PCs away that still have valid keys on the side, keys that work with Windows 10 apparently, I used one with a clean install of 10 and it worked flawlessly.

That's an interesting concept - I didn't think to try that.

I was mainly trying to drive the point home that most people who complain about updates in Windows 8 or 10 bought the home version then explain how some process was disrupted when they were doing something professional like rendering/compiling/etc.

Professional software exists for that reason and that's why the "Pro" versions allow for more flexibility. Home users will be vastly better served getting the updates than ignoring them (as they have in every other version of Windows).

 

[OcelotRex]

My point here is that I should get to decide how I want to use the software I paid for. Those are MY saved networks and that is MY information and I should be able to access however I please.

If you want to use "your software" in that manner I'd suggest writing your own operating system; what you describe is not how mass produced software work (in the US at least).

While I am willing to admit this was a result of some laziness after fighting with Comcast for a year, I have to ask, why are you so determined to blame me for this? I had been doing this for 10 years, why did MS need to make the change. Instead if blaming me I'd like you to justify why this change was necessary.

First - I was assigning blame because you've seemed to attributed your issue to the OS 100%. While a change was made there were many other points of failure that could have alleviated the issue.

As to why it was changed my first thought comes to security. If a computer on a network is left unlocked and a person can easily access the passcode through the network properties tab of all windows it seems very likely to be exploited. When you look at the changes that Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 made to the user account (sharing settings/info to any machine the user logs on to) it seems appropriate.

 

[foxrox]

Nice. That's actually doing me a HUGE favor if I don't have to use tweaks to disable Windows Updates. One less thing to have to disable to have things working my way. Thanks Micro$haft. Appreciate the favor, guys. Please do the same for Windoze OS X as well.

 

[Ben Myers]

Microsoft has to get over its Windows 10 fixation. Yes, we all know that Windows 10 is Microsoft's special vehicle for trying to sell you everything that they sell, for watching over your every move (aka surveillance), and for using Windows 10 components to show you ads for the Microsoft things you do not want. Get over it! An operating system is there as a platform for programs that do the work you want to get done. Anything else is really and truly superfluous.

So, Satya, how much ill will has to build up with Microsoft over Windows 10 to get a lot of people, companies, NGOs and government agencies to begin casting about seriously for alternatives? Winter is almost over, Satya, and you are skating on very thin ice!

 

[foxrox]

Here is the problem... when the Redmond Mafia control freaks actually think they have a right to dictate anything at a hardware or firmware level. It's none of their damned business what CPU and chipset is being used with any version of Windows. If Intel had any integrity left they would put them in their place. I'm sad that AMD is going to continue worshipping at their throne of filth.

"It seems clear, though, that Microsoft doesn't want these processors to work on their older operating systems. So they've decided to roll out a processor check in Windows Update on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, preventing users from download updates if their system contains a Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPU."

 

[noel24]

If I bought a boxed version of 8.1 in 2015 hoping to use it on few consecutive machines till the end of extended support in 2023 and now got cut off from 75% of my money (6 out of 8 years of expected license), I would probably ask for a refund. Find a lawyer, tell him he can get in damages from MicroShit anything over the cost of new Win10ProBox? Class Action is very popular these days, I've heard.

 

[OcelotRex]

Here is the problem... when the Redmond Mafia control freaks actually think they have a right to dictate anything at a hardware or firmware level. It's none of their damned business what CPU and chipset is being used with any version of Windows.

So you're expecting your hardware vendor to support their software?