New computer

[NV30]

Looking at:

AMD 3000+

Asus, Abit or Gigabyte board, either NF2 or VIA KT400

512MB of PC3200, need suggestions on manufacturer. Will get 2X256MB if I get the NF2 for dual channel purposes.

Black floppy, CD-RW, DVD-ROM

ATI 9800Pro

Antec SX1040 Performance Plus 2 Black tower w/400W PSU

XP Home OEM, perhaps Pro

Have the HDD/mouse/keyboard/speakers and monitor already.

Any suggestions? I want it to be no more than about $2000 CAD, and I can get the above pretty much for that from NCIX. No overclocking is intended, so I hope to get the best what I can without that.

 

[Tarkus]

Fairly good choices. I'll give you my opinions and you can ignore me as picking a system is really a personal choice. I think the NF2 is a much better chipset than anything VIA makes. That said go for a NF2. The NF2 boards are nasty about what ram you use. I had great results using Corsair TwinX Low Latency PC3200. I don't know about current ATI products and drivers, especially the drivers, so maybe someone else should comment on that.

If you're not OCing then I'd say go with the fastest CPU you can, but you will find the 2600/333 will go faster than a non-OC'd 3000 easily. I'd prefer XP Pro over Home.

The Antec cases are wonderful and I'd suggest going with a Quality PS. I prefer Antec PSs but many others like Enermax. Get at least a Antec 380 but I don't think you'd ever need anything over their 480W PS.

One great thing about the Tbred and Barton chips with the NF2 boards is you can increase the FSB and lower the CPU multiplier. Even though it's "like" OCing, none of the components are really OC'd but you will increase the performance of the system overall. If you have PC3200 ram you can run the MB FSB up to 400 and by lowering the multiplier your CPU will still be near or at the rated speed and the PCI and AGP are locked so they won't be overclocked. Kind of like having the best of both worlds when you do that.

$2000 CN, isn't that about $1350 US?... I can build an entire Killer Box and all it's internal components for that.

 

[NV30]

Originally posted by Tarkus
Fairly good choices. I'll give you my opinions and you can ignore me as picking a system is really a personal choice. I think the NF2 is a much better chipset than anything VIA makes. That said go for a NF2. The NF2 boards are nasty about what ram you use. I had great results using Corsair TwinX Low Latency PC3200. I don't know about current ATI products and drivers, especially the drivers, so maybe someone else should comment on that.


OK, I'm totally convinced about the NF2. Are the OCZ dual-channel optimized sticks good as well?



Hmm, OK well I may do some low level o/cing.
If you're not OCing then I'd say go with the fastest CPU you can, but you will find the 2600/333 will go faster than a non-OC'd 3000 easily. I'd prefer XP Pro over Home.


Really? I thought the 2600 was quite a bit slower. I may go Pro if the total price isn't too much.


The Antec cases are wonderful and I'd suggest going with a Quality PS. I prefer Antec PSs but many others like Enermax. Get at least a Antec 380 but I don't think you'd ever need anything over their 480W PS.

Yeah, I love the Antec ones. Would a 400W PSU suffice?


One great thing about the Tbred and Barton chips with the NF2 boards is you can increase the FSB and lower the CPU multiplier. Even though it's "like" OCing, none of the components are really OC'd but you will increase the performance of the system overall. If you have PC3200 ram you can run the MB FSB up to 400 and by lowering the multiplier your CPU will still be near or at the rated speed and the PCI and AGP are locked so they won't be overclocked. Kind of like having the best of both worlds when you do that.


Neat, I may end up doing some low level o/cing then.

$2000 CN, isn't that about $1350 US?... I can build an entire Killer Box and all it's internal components for that.

Yeah, about $1400. Prices are more expensive here though, as well if we order from the US we get slapped with huge import fees.

 

[NV30]

Just need some suggestions for the following:

Mobo: NF2, Asus or Epox?

RAM: Probably Corsair TwinX 2 X 256MB

CPU: How much of a bang for your buck does the 3000+ give you?

In short, I want a good PC that can give me good gaming performance, and last a few years.

Another question, is the max speed for RAM in an NF2 PC2700 or PC3200? I believe it uses dual-channel DDR.

 

[NV30]

Just another question, is there any way to tweak my monitor or the video card if I got an ATI one (most likely) to get the same digital vibrance as is on the Nvidia series?

 

[JSR]

ok, here it is again

go to http://www.aceshardware.com for the 3000+.......its the one they recommend due to it's timings for overclocking.......even better than the 3200+........and, when overclocked to 2.4 gig.......it outperformed the p4 3 gig w/ 800 fsb and hyperthreading activated and the 3200+....with the 333fsb...they used the asus board, deluxe version rev.2.0 w/ 2x256 3200 ddr cas 2........they used the same board for the 3200+ w/400fsb and beat it ............as i mentioned, due to the processor multipliers

 

[JSR]

screw the radeon card

get the geforce withe nforce and YOU will have no issues.............the only other alternative would be to suffer along with the onboard mx, if the release date of the new videocards by both manufacturers is as soon as i suspect

 

[JSR]

and by the way

go radeon, and you would have to change from nv30 to r350:haha:

 

[NV30]

OK, that certainly does look fast. Why go with Nvidia? ATI outperforms them totally.

Well my screenname would be inappropriate, but who cares.

 

[negroplasty]

That is where you are wrong, ATi does not outperform NVIDIA completely. NVIDIA's GeForce FX5900 Ultra outperforms the 9800 PRO, period. I am sure you were just referring to the mainstream cards, but you said totally, which is inappropriate IMO.

I had to say this because I haven't had a disagreement or NVIDIA - ATi discussion in a few days , just remember to keep it friendly - I am not attacking you here; Nor am I favoring one company over the other, I am stating a fact.

 

[JSR]

as did i

it's purely speculative.......and, you have to cognizant as to what benchmarks win out......and, if it is applicable to what you are trying to accomplish...........with, by the way, new cards just on the horizon........i personally, may wait, as new cards are on the horizon.......why?, because the new games are going to rocket your need for a card with enough muscle to deliver games on a par with doom 3, with (for me) MORE than adequate frame rates......and, onboard video is intact, albeit you'd suffer some with the mx......but, if you can snag a better card on ebay or somewhere cheap..........well, wtf..........listen and learn:knock:

 

[JSR]

hey tarkus

you fixed your friends computer..........you're a guru...........soooooooooo...........i fixed my friends computer..........therefore.........i am a guru.........hehe..........yeah right...........but , now you are giving us gurus a bad name...................a 333fsb 2600+ outperforming a 3000+...........bullshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht

 

[olefarte]

NV30, ATi doesn't have the digital vibrance control as nVidia does, but I think you would be happy with the colors without it. As far as what timmoore said, and I certainly don't want to get in a argument over brands. But all that I have read says the nVidia 5900 Ultra and the ATi 9800 Pro 256 are fairly evenly matched. They each win in some of the benchmarks. Be that as it may, the fact is they each are going to cost you $500 US. You can get and ATi 9700 Pro for probably around $300. The regular ATi 9800 Pro is about $400.

I think the bottom line on the vidio cards is how much you want to pay. Both of the top line cards from either company would be a good choice.

 

[young&wild]

Stick with NF2, they are the top of the line for now. This would make you want to purchase 2 sticks of quality Corsair RAM for dual channel . As for the ATI and Nvidia, i hate to talk much, its all up too you, both cards are good in different areas. It all boils down to your budget and personal choice.

It would be worthile taking a look at Yamaha CRWF1 or a Liteon Burner for CD-Burner. Pioneer and a wide array of brands make great DVD-ROMs, you might want to have a region-free drive which saves your time as you won't nd to update firmware to unlock your drice

 

[XtR-X]

I recently made a computer for one of my customers and I've got to say it was pretty damn good. He chose a Athlon XP 3000+ "Barton" and a A7N8X Deluxe. He chose a 128MB XFX GeForce 4 Ti4200. He insisted on 3 sticks of 512DDR. But if I were you, I'd go with at least 1 gig of DDR RAM if you're going to run Windows XP. No more that 512 if you're going to run 98SE.

But for your video card, you've got to ask yourself one question.

"Do I really need this ATI Radeon 9800 PRO?"

In my opinion, yes if you are a crazy movie ripper, movie downloader, modifier, or you just want to have the best and latest stuff (It's not the latest anymore, there's something called ATI Fire GL).

On the other hand, if all you're going to do is gaming and ocasional movie watching, I'd go with a cheaper card in the same range. It's pretty much standard to have your video card equiped with a TV out or some form of OUT now.

By the way, IMHO, I'd stay away from 400MHz DDR due to some cases of instabilty.

A powerful video card demands a powerful power supply. I'm not exactly how much a Radeon 9800 pro needs but if your comp doesn't have enough, you'll know when it wont turn on with your vid card hooked up. You SHOULD be fine with 400W.

This is all the advice I have to offer right now. Good luck on your PC.

 

[young&wild]

Originally posted by XtR-X
. But if I were you, I'd go with at least 1 gig of DDR RAM if you're going to run Windows XP. No more that 512 if you're going to run 98SE.

You SHOULD be fine with 400W.

This is all the advice I have to offer right now. Good luck on your PC.

I don't think there's a need for 1 GB of DDR RAM in Win XP unless you are into video editing or graphics editing(rocket launching, perhaps!, just joking). Why? 1GB won't make much difference compared to 512MB DDR in gaming. Unlike previous versions of windows, XP manages memory better.

400W PSU should be Antec or Enermax, not something cheap which is crappy. Keep in mind that not all PSU are built equally.

 

[Nic]

JSR: I think you misread Tarkus post where he claimed that Athlon 2600+/333 would be faster than non-OC'd 3000+.

I believe he was refering to an overclocked Athlon 2600+/333 out performing a non-OC'd 3000+ barton.

This is in fact correct, and something that may surprise you is that choosing the correct stepping core of Athlon 1700+ can allow overclocking beyond the performance of 3000+.

Take a look at this article ...

AMD XP1700 JIUHB - A question of stepping

Unfortunately, you'll have to be quick to grab one of these CPUs as they are soon to be discontinued.

 

[NV30]

Thanks for all the replies.

NF2 it is, should I go with the Asus deluxe one?

Taking a look at the benches again I'm sorry that I stated that ATI totally outperformed Nvidia. But for now I'll go ATI due to:

1. Price
2. Noise
3. Availability.

End of discussion. Olefarte, you summed it up pretty well. I realize that ATI doesn't have digital vibrance, but is it possible to tweak the monitor?

Young&Wild,

OK, I'll keep Pioneer in mind. I was thinking of both being Liteon, have had no problems with them in the past.

XTR-X,

I want an 9800Pro simply because I want this system to last long. Unless that there's some simply amazing card coming out in the next 4 months, I'll be getting this one. And no, I don't think I need 1 GB of RAM. Stability issues with PC3200? Never heard of that.

 

[JSR]

yeah, i read it

and, what they were talking about was the core of a 2700...........................being downgraded to meet market demand..................and that core exists on the 1700 thats marked AXDA2700/JIUHB..........and, without testing, another AUIHB that will go further, if you can believe that..............this has nothing to do with the claim made by tarkus, and , i believe you would concur......but, it did lead to this astonishing revelation..........thx nic.........now, if you can even get your hands on one......as they mention, @ cpu city......you can designate this model.................unbelievable................getting 2.3/2.4 gig outta a 1700 for fifty bucks?........i'm ordering..........even if i fry it......big deal...........but, i'm not holding out hope i'll get one................well, i'm off to cpu city:grinthumb

 

[JSR]

hmmmmmm

they have it.........about 70 bones american to get it to me from the uk.........these are the issues........an abit nf2 board w/dual 3500 cas 2 modules, now that's no cheap foundation to get this accomplished..........just to get it to 2700+...........and to get 400 fsb, it needs voltage mods to get somewhat beyond.........the 2600/2700 processors are right now at around a hundy..........slap it to my current config......and i'm gellin'.....for the 30+ buck differential, to get a processor at stock speed, and , overclockable from there.................just probably isn't worth the hassle.......do you concur?...........but, woooot........

 

[JSR]

canadian

there are no longer any of the three issues you are basing your decision on.......ati is canadian........you are or are from canada....therefore you are buying canadian............and, you seemed to have your mind set...........soooooooooo, why ask for opinions........just get what you want.........and, by the way, change your monikerpuke:

 

[NV30]

JSR,

I don't agree. Pricing is supposed to be a lot higher than the 9800 here, and it's not even available yet. As for noise, most sites concur that the 9800 is quieter. Contrary to what you say, I am open to opinions, and I'm not buying ATI just because they're Canadian.

Is it possible for you to talk in sentences?

 

[Nic]

You only need fast RAM (i.e. PC3500) if you want to overclock the FSB above 400 MHz.

I am using PC3200 RAM (TwinMOS, cheap and high performance - will easily run at CAS2 despite the CAS 2.5 spec) and running 400 fsb and overclocking using the multiplier settings. Overclocking the fsb provides the best gains, though you can overclock using a fixed fsb and increasing the cpu clock multiplier settings instead. I use a combination.

You can simply OC that CPU in your current system (if it has overclocking features, most do) and get a fast CPU for small change. No need to buy new components unless your current components are unsuitable.

Check out these reviews ...

TwinMOS PC3200 DDR - Review

 

[NV30]

OK Nic, TwinMOS it is, if I can find it. I would glady o/c, but I only have a 1.7Ghz running on a stock Intel board. I also want to get a whole new physical machine when I upgrade because my current one would become our family PC.

 

[NV30]

Nic,

Just wondering if the TwinX from Corsair (2X256MB of PC3200) would be good. It's a little pricey, but supposedly is guaranteed to work on dual-channel boards.

Also, I don't believe there is a big performance difference between the 128MB and 256MB versions of the 9800 Pro, am I correct?