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Origin PC no longer sells AMD GPUs due to overheating, other technical issues

By Justin Kahn
Oct 7, 2013
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  1. ddg4005

    ddg4005 TS Booster Posts: 277   +29

    AMD has contracts to supply the APUs for the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4 so they're not going to starve. Since I've never used one of their GPUs for gaming I can't comment on that but the bad driver situation is real. Some of the workstations at my job use Radeon HD cards and the older drivers were horrendous (maybe not so much now).
     
  2. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,970   +739

    Driver issues will almost always be forgiven, both by the end user and system builders simply because driver teams are fallible regardless of who cuts their paycheck, and the software environment is in a state of near constant change.
    The bigger issue would be how well the IHV and the OEM's communicate and what systems are in place to catch support issues. Cost, staff cuts, and company reorganization/restructuring won't be helping I wouldn't think.
    AMD's hardware products are generally fine and certainly no worse than Nvidia's. Consoles aren't really their issue either since Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are responsible for overall design and implementation. AMD's Achilles heel has always been the software infrastructure (or lack of). How much determination they put into this side of the business will be a determining factor when hardware reaches the state of diminishing returns - both from the end-users need for upgrade, and fabrication process cost.
     
    JC713 likes this.
  3. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,184   +177

    "Origin says AMD's extremely relaxed attitude towards stability and driver updates on both desktop and mobile GPUs is also part of the problem."
    I concur with this. AMD support attitude to rubbish drivers is a bit underwhelming. They released the following 13.9 WHQL and when people complained about substantial perf issues were told to upgrade to the beta or downgrade. They didn't really care.
     
  4. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    Oh yea your one to talk about biased... Hot and loud, ill give you the loud because the 6990's were louder than any GPU I have ever heard in my life. The aspect of the singles being hot and louder than the equivalent Nvidia however, is a complete farce, my 580's were just as loud as a 6970 or if there was a different it was minor. Your comments are literally just summed up as "AMD sucks, Nvidia is better because my logic says so". Any card is loud and most review shows them to be about on par at max fan speed.

    The triple slot coolers were the best yes, but the dual slot ones were fine and most tests showed better overall temps than you and most people give credit. So saying the temps were horribly is beyond me because it clearly shows some pretty low temps compared even to the titan and other single GPU cards (The lowest in that test showing to be the 7950).

    "Rolls eyes" oh yea mister expert please enlighten us, so explain to me how This works just fine. Honestly, if your spending already lets say 1400 bucks on GPU's, I would hope at least some thought would go into cooling the computer. The cards run fine next to eachother, the only issue was that some of the exhaust could wind up in the top GPU 0 on card one from the lower card. If that became an issue, put a fan in to help, if your already planning on running a QuadFire of Quad SLI setup, why wouldn't you consider your options on cooling. The Reference 3 fan design from AMD was fine and did its job just like it was supposed to. The "Tul" designed cards and Ares 2 were better options overall, but the reference one was just fine and could be run without much worry.

    I believe almost anyone on here could easily make a computer that would just be fan cooled and could cool off any configuration of cards in a machine, if the companies are selling inferior machines that are some how incapable of doing this, that's their fault. Who do I blame for my Dell XPS M1513 with the Core 2 Duo and 8600m for overheating problems on the GPU. Do I blame NVidia for the overheating GPU, or do I blame Dell how not compensating to up the build quality on their laptop and keep everything cool.

    As for the stuttering issue, I once again flip the keyboard because im not even going back into that debate whether it was a big deal or not because its just going to be that same song and dance repeated.

    I will give you most of that, in the past AMD/ATI has been slow as *&!% when it came to releasing driver updates and such. However, since the HD 6XXX series, they have done nothing but shoot up and fix issues with that with even driver updates that have totaled to about 4 in the per 2 months since around 13.8.

    The fact is though, this announcement is right before the R290X GPU has come out, and oddly enough they were not willing to wait to at least try it before stopping which means something up because from a business standpoint, that makes no sense.
     
  5. RzmmDX

    RzmmDX TS Enthusiast Posts: 213   +29

    You know what, I am just going to wait to see if there are any heating issues with the next-gen...
     
  6. Adhmuz

    Adhmuz TechSpot Paladin Posts: 957   +116

    Has no one looked at the timeline of announcements, AMD announces their new line of Cards, Nvidia launches their 4K gaming initiative, people go, okay but AMD's new cards are going to be faster and better in every way, lets wait. Nvidia gets nervous, thinks of ways to undermine AMD, lets starts false rumors based on freak occurrences and get someone on board, maybe Origin, yeah. And voila Nvidia is shipping systems again... Shows Nvidia is nervous about AMD's announcement more than anything else in my opinion. Besides, who the hell cares about the current gen cards having issues when they're being replaced in a matter of weeks... And for the record, my 5870's in CF have never had any issues other than being a little loud, easy fix, space the cards out and add a fan in my drive bays. How is this not obvious to more people.
     
    GhostRyder likes this.
  7. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    Another right on the money argument, exactly the point.

    I'm the same way, I have not had any issues with my cards, a lot of this turns into just rumors started by the fanboys.
     
  8. amstech

    amstech TechSpot Enthusiast Posts: 931   +248

    I bring out the best fanboy in you!
     
  9. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,970   +739

    Why would I need to enlighten you? The review link you've posted explains it perfectly......you did read it didn't you?
    Tested configuration in a Lian Li PC-A77FR with three front fans and only two hard drives...and the cards spaced 4 slots apart - two clear expansion slots between the cards.
    [​IMG]

    ...and presumably a motherboard that allows that kind of separation between cards
    Yup, 93C is real comfortable.
     
    amstech likes this.
  10. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    My point was still there, I read the article and that putting them next to eachother without some sort of fan pushing some of the air they get warm. The cards are still next to each other, spacing out the cards is good for the temps, if your spending 1400 bucks on GPU's, why would you not think about cooling. If spacing helps the GPU's out, why wouldn't you do that. Also these people were able to do it with ease, so why cant these supposed big name companies do this if they were really having issues. Under the easy change of moving the cards, they ran cooler than the equivalent NVidia cards. I reiterate, I hope you would at least think about cooling cards of this magnitude before just slapping them into a system since your spending at least 1400 bucks (Actually 1200 with recent price change).

    If were speaking of boards that don't support the extra amount of spaces, then heres the next solution, put a fan moving the air over the GPU's.
     
  11. amstech

    amstech TechSpot Enthusiast Posts: 931   +248

    What point? That you agree they run hot?
    You will argue to the end of the earth and back then argue some more, when it comes to AMD you can just never admit it.
    And don't waste your time calling me an Nvidia fanboy, I've already loudly and proudly stated that I am but at the same time I will admit to their shortcomings and believe me they have their fair share.
     
     
  12. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    When it comes to NVidia, your only argument is they are great because you said so, and unlike you, I actually own both sides and can prove it with ease.

    They don't run hot, they run cooler than the equivalent card (IE 690). Tests prove this... you just wont admit it because it does not follow your fanboy logic.
    You mean shoving hot air into a GPU makes it run hotter, no way!!!!! Try any GPU and start venting hot air into its intake and see what happens. The fact is, this tech review site managed to do something easily that supposedly all these computer companies are "Struggling" to do.
     
  13. Mikymjr

    Mikymjr TS Enthusiast Posts: 134   +7

    I had a HD4890 from powercolor and my mom has an Nvidia GTS250(still working). I have had issues with AMD HD4890 from powercolor. The cooling was best but just it's stated here, the drivers SUCKED. It's as if AMD sells you something, but after that, they are leaving you to hang out there. Nvidia has had issues but my moms card never failed. I'm not biasing, but I'd buy Nvidia as soon as possible if I could. The only thing that's holding me back is the price as I need the money for something better. Still I'm gathering anough money to buy it though. And AMD has let me down when they announced that their CPU's would be faster or just as fast as intel, but ultimately they were slow after all the marketing hype that was made. Who's not to say they would do the same with the new graphics-cards? AMD has recently only been working with a few software companies to optimize there performance to the cpu's and gpu's. Considering that NVidia is on par with the raw performance without extensively working together with those companies I'd say Nvidia is absolutely doing their best
     
  14. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,970   +739

    Actually, all the chart shows is how PowerTune throttles under Furmark. The HD 7990 is noted for its aggressive throttling under what AMD refer to as a "power virus".
    If you're going to make a comparison, then either state that AMD card X runs cooler than Nvidia card Y under Furmark, or note the difference between loading for games and a synthetic benchmark.
    Except that Origin PC, like most other boutique system builders also includes PCI/PCI-E RAID cards and sound cards limiting options in both card placement and airflow.....there is also the consideration of stacking 3 or 4 reference design enthusiast class single GPU's (both options that Origin PC carry)- and OEM's invariably procure reference designs made by the IHV's principle ODM.
     
  15. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    I keep pointing directly to the review of this site, either way what I said was that comparatively, the GTX 690 ran hotter than the HD 7990 in the tests I mentioned above. But this is way off topic now at this point.

    On the note of Origin PC and sound card/PCIE raid controllers, a Sound card in most cases is either USB, PCIE 1x, or PCI. A normal Motherboard that you would buy and get this video card like this has a PCI-E 1x above the graphics cards slots just for that. On the note of raid cards while I cant account for every situation off the top of my head, but if your referring to something like this, I don't see how having that space between them would interfere because even in the pic you showed with plenty of room to put something in between.

    If were speaking about 4 way configs or 3 way on cards on air, neither solution is going to have a problem running in SLI/CFX right next to eachother in the reference designs, ive seen plenty. Though in all cases, you still have to put some air moving around the cards or else it may become an issue because that much heat from any cards all sitting around does tend to cycle.

    But anyway, either way you want to look at it, Origin should not have any trouble with "Temps" and "Overheating" no matter which brand of card it is. Almost any tech person on this site could find an easy solution if heat became an issue. So if they were releasing computers with overheating problems, that's their own fault and not the GPU's because it means there was a lack of testing before hand (This is assuming of course they are telling the truth).
     
  16. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,970   +739

    It most certainly is.
    The point isn't necessarily, cooling...nor drivers...nor hardware. The point I was, and am making was that OEM's complained publicly about AMD's hardware and support. OEM's would not voice publicly unless they were dissatisfied with AMD's initial level of support of their situation, therefore the public face is the tip of the iceberg of the relationship between the IHV and the OEM.

    BTW: There is an update and clarification of comments made today:
    and Puget Systems failure rate analysis would tend to add credence to the claims:

     
    hood6558 likes this.
  17. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    Well heres my opinion on that matter:
    Many have claimed issues to the "Problem" of the 7990 overheating and most claims when found are saying that the First GPU (0) is the one that gets hot. The problem is that most sites like ibuypower said they could not find a solution when even review sites found it a relatively easy fix IF they had the issue. Saying that overheating was a primary cause for this from Origin is complete garbage (Keeping it G rated).

    As for what you have shown below, it seems by THEIR testing, there seems to be a higher failure rate of up to 3% difference. Not much to say the least of course, but there seems to be a difference. However, I don't see that any company would drop an entire GPU line simply because of a 3% at most difference in failure rates.

    The OEM support and the whole not showing them of an R90x or anything above R70 GPU is not that crazy a thing. I mean they have been keeping this GPU under wraps for awhile, letting the OEM mess with them and possibly leak out information is always a concern as both sides only like to leak what they want to be leaked.

    The timing for this is too much and just adds the cherry to the top of the sundae, the fact is no matter what anyone says, the R90X and R90 GPU have bolstered tons of publicity and many enthusiasts are anxiously waiting its release. Dropping an entire GPU line right before its release and saying we will no longer offer those is going to be a heavy hit only to them as people wanting a computer with these GPU's will look elsewhere. There has to be more to this than meets the eye and honestly there feels to be at least SOME NVidia persuasion involved as dropping half the GPU market is a giant leap no matter who you are.
     
  18. Polaco

    Polaco TS Rookie Posts: 45   +8

    Darth Shiv and GhostRyder like this.
  19. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    Ummm what? They actually got caught and called out on this...
    [​IMG]
    Wow that's an interesting ummm turnabout... I mean if this article is accurate...
    Either way, this just got very interesting... (Im laughing my &%$ off at two specific posters on this part).

    So basically, its as follow, apparently NVidia devised a plan to give a bonus to vendors who would drop AMD products from their line up and to bad mouth AMD components to discredit AMD and damage its reputation if I am reading the article correctly. Wow...

    Although, there should not be a scapegoat as I doubt that this one individual was totally responsible for this whole thing.
     
  20. insurgentx

    insurgentx TS Rookie

    Whoa that was straightforward statement, either bold or stupid if I may say. I've been using both nvidia and ati/amd and both are problematic. my gt520M got toasted just from regular gaming and my hd7770 died out of no reason.

    I think both are the same since they're both are mortal thing
     
  21. backo

    backo TS Member Posts: 58   +8

    I do not know if nVidia payed-to-win but the issues described above sum up very well my experience with AMD and before that ATI.
    I am currently on the market for a new GPU and I will give AMD the benefit of the doubt and see what they come up with their high end cards. But if they don't get their act together when it comes to drivers I will get another nVidia card.
     
  22. hood6558

    hood6558 TS Booster Posts: 292   +44

    I thought it was common knowledge that AMD cards are substandard - what part of "you get what you pay for" is so hard to understand for most people? AMD themselves obviously agree, since they've dropped the prices of all their cards to reflect market value. The main reason to use an AMD card is to hit a certain price point while claiming a certain level of game performance - the fact that the card runs hot, has driver issues, or outright fails should not be a big surprise since YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Can't wait to see how fast prices fall on their "new" series of junk. Thanks for the great post...
     
    amstech likes this.
  23. amstech

    amstech TechSpot Enthusiast Posts: 931   +248

    OMG, there are people out there with common sense! AMD is a second rate GPU and price their products accordingly. It's ok AMD fanny's, everything will be ok. You get what you pay for. 2nd rate hardware that runs hot & loud, skips around and crashes due to 2nd rate drivers AMD have been working on for 5 years. The end!
    Boom goes the dynamite!
     
  24. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder TS Evangelist Posts: 2,311   +551

    Yea its almost as bad as this...oh wait thats a GTX 590.
    Your not worth my or anyones time, just keep sucking on the green sucker your accustomed to.

    It seems this debate is getting more and more interesting, the fact is that theres this new info about the whole debate, I guess we will have to wait till more information comes to light, but depending on what we see will change the outcome significantly.
     
  25. Darth Shiv

    Darth Shiv TS Evangelist Posts: 1,184   +177

    Highly debate "junk". Most of the cards of the last 2 generations do not suffer from heat issues particularly in single GPU configs. The drivers are flakey but you know what? The latest WHQL NVIDIAs tanked perf for BF4 beta on a GTX 680 so are they junk too? That was only about a week ago?

    I'm happy to put up with AMDs flakey drivers than put up with NVIDIAs monopolistic BS practices like this (bribing suppliers) and them disabling physx when non-NVIDIA GPUs are present.
     
    GhostRyder likes this.


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