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Perfect Upgrade: GeForce2 GTS --> GeForce 4 TI4200

By Snowy Commando
May 17, 2002
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  1. My original Asus GeForce2 GTS (bought for £180, 2 years ago) has served me very well but its becoming yesterday's news and i'm really considering the upgrade to an MSI GeForce4 TI4200 (http://www.watford.co.uk/products/search.asp?search=3&sku=28756&Shoplink=18) when its released. Obviously alongside an overall motherboard, CPU, ddr333 ram upgrade.

    In general, how much % faster is the GF4 from my GF2 considering all the architectural improvements because i can't find any benchmarks that still use a GF2 for comparison to see 4 myself?

    Another interesting thing I noticed on this site was:

    "MSI's card is equipped with 3.5ns RAM while SUMA's sports 3.3ns. Theoretically, the memory can operate at speeds above 550MHz."

    Meaning I could buy a very good value for money TI4200 and overclock safely to near TI4400 levels.

    Finally, what justification do i need to get the TI4200 with 128MB ddr memory when there is also the same card but with 64MB ddr memory that is cheaper?
  2. Didou

    Didou Bowtie extraordinair! Posts: 5,899

    You should be very carefull with those specs. Suma had allready released GF3TI200 cards with faster memory but in the end, they actually overclocked worse then the normal TI200 cards ( bad board layout or bad components ? ). The GF4 4600 & 4400 cards are made with an 8 layer PCB wheras the 4200 is 6 layer. The design & power circuitry might not be able to reach such high speeds.

    Here's a review of the GainWard GF4 4200 -> Gainward GeForce4 Ti 4200: The First Retail 4200
  3. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    Well, I now know the answer to this one as quoted here:

    "it makes sense to go with the 128MB card because of the demands of future games in spite of the fact that the memory is clocked lower than the 64MB version" from that site posted above.

    Bottomline = Get 128mb version for future games that will make use of it.
  4. Didou

    Didou Bowtie extraordinair! Posts: 5,899

    Getting a slightly faster CPU won't hurt either.;)

    A duron 1300MHZ might be a good idea.
  5. StormBringer

    StormBringer TS Rookie Posts: 2,871

    Re: Re: Perfect Upgrade: GeForce2 GTS --> GeForce 4 TI4200

    The real question is how soon will you be upgrading the rest of your system? or maybe building a completely new one. By the time you get to utilize that extra RAM in that card, the card and your system may be obsolete.

    Not trying to talk you out of it, just something you might want to consider.
  6. LNCPapa

    LNCPapa TS Special Forces Posts: 4,305   +265

    Here's a comparison between several cards on several games (including G2, G4, and Q3 - the essentials.

    Click Me!

    LNCPapa
  7. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    Like i already said, I want to upgrade to GF4 alongside a new kt333 mobo, ddr333 ram and athlon1800+ cpu.

    My system is optimized for a GF2 but not for a GF4 which needs a faster sub-system to run on otherwise my current cpu will bottleneck it.
  8. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    The updated Duron 1.3Ghz based on the "Morgon" core is actually the only processor my mobo will support as classic Athlon 1.4's with FSB200 are hard to come by making the Duron the best and only choice to max out what my mobo can handle given the A7V's age.

    I suppose my only question now concerns DDR SDRAM and whether having an upgrade system without it which would require a new DDR mobo anyway would make much difference for gaming. In other words, compare my upgraded system i propose to same system with latest DDR mobo and DDR SDRAM - how much real-world difference for gaming?

    I've going down the best value/performance route on a tight budget, heres how my upgrade system could look:

    Asus A7V (bios 1008)
    AMD Duron 1.3GHz ("Morgan" Core) - £61.76 from Komplett.co.uk
    Crucial 512MB PC-133 CL2 SDRAM
    Gainward GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB - £150.80 from Komplett.co.uk (available 2 Buy early June!)
    Maxtor DiamondMax+ D740X 40.1Gb ATA133/7200RPM
    Maxtor DiamondMax+ 5120 15.3Gb ATA33/7200RPM
    Windows XP Professional Version

    Thats a upgrading total of £212.56 and its not bad considering i get the latest video card and a CPU with same core features as AthlonXP, all using the same Asus mobo. I want my A7V to last me as long as possible before replacing it with new ram which should probably be next if i upgrade this time as above and do mobo another time in the future.

    To cut a long story short, I would like to know if anybody agrees that my proposed upgrade would do me nicely in increasing the FPS in gaming which is getting a bit down ~20-50fps lately.
  9. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Snowy,

    Something you may wish to consider: the AGP cards allow the user to designate just how much *system* memory will be used for 'textures'. A 64mb will need more 'system memory allocation' than a 128 in a situation requiring over 64mb.

    Yes you have 512mb, but it being SDRAM & 133 ... I think that the 128mb w/DDR would be a better purchase than an eventual mobo/DDR system ram upgrade, in the long run.

    Just a thought,
  10. Spliffmeister

    Spliffmeister TechSpot Paladin Posts: 527

    snowy, I know where you are coming from....let me introduce my system:

    Abit KT7
    1.4 Athlon 200FSB
    Creative GF2 GTS
    512 Crucial CAS2 PC133 SDRAM
    Quantam Fireball 20Gb 7200Rpm
    IBM Deskstar 40Gb 7200Rpm

    ...looks like we have similar systems eh?

    I too was considering upgrading to a GF4 Ti4200, just so that I can get a bit more out of some of the newer games. I'm just a serial tweaker though, and am always looking to improve something. I dont wan't to go whole hog and get a new mobo or have to upgrade my system Ram yet either, not yet, I recon there's a year in the old dog yet.....

    just my thoughts...
  11. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    I agree, i want to make full use of my motherboard before it really does need to be upgraded/replaced. The 'thing' with AMD is that they don't make their CPUs always require a new motherboard unlike Intel who kind of do it on purpose to get more money out of us to buy new Intel chipset motherboards.

    The current situation with AMD Socket A CPU's is something like this:

    - Newer Duron's based on "Morgon" core using FSB200, range from 800MHz to 1.3GHz.

    - Newer Athlon(XP)'s based on "Palimino" core using FSB266, range from (1.4Ghz) 1600+ and indefinitely higher.

    - Original Athlon's based on "Thunderbird" core using FSB200/266, ranging from 800MHz to 1.4Ghz have gradually been phased out in favour of the above.

    Therefore, realistically I can easily buy a new Duron 1.3Ghz as they are available and have the same core features as the AthlonXP except for smaller cache size making a 1.3GHz Duron the best CPU I can still get for my A7V. Apparently, the updated core with 3dnow! pro (and lower power consumption) will mean better performance than an equivalent 1.3GHz "Thunderbird" Athlon, so i've read.

    I think you are right and me like a lot of other people i'm assuming have 512MB PC133 SDRAM because there was a time when it was really cheap to get from Crucial, so you just 'stocked up' on RAM at the time.

    Besides, I need to use Maya4 (3d animation and modelling program) which needs 512MB RAM to run and i don't want to replace my mobo and have to get an additional 512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM when its really expensive at the moment compared to what I paid previously.

    And finally......

    The price-line of GF4 TI cards, the cheapest prices i've seen for the TI4200 range are at £150-£170 for the 64MB version and £180-£200 for the 128MB version.

    The TI4400 range are at £210-£300.

    The TI4600 range are at £250-£400 which are too expensive for me to consider.

    Considering that the 128MB cards are better in the long run and yes, I have seen a TI4400 card from Inno3d (or the dabsvalue one if u like from dabs.com!) for only £10 more than the TI4200 128MB version. I think this would be the best one to get.

    your thoughts?
     
  12. JAV

    JAV TS Rookie Posts: 264

    Snowy,

    My thoughts: The 4400 has better FPS @ higher resolutions, but the human eye can't distinguish FPS above ~65. Therefore unless you are using resolutions/programs that would bring the FPS below ~65 on the 4200 ... :rolleyes:

    The 4400 is a better card tho' & the price difference you mention isn't enough to put the 4400 out of contention (as the 4600 is). BUT, I would rather have a 4200 that is well built & can probably be oc'd, than a 'budget' 4400 that is questionable on oc'ing & costs 10pounds more. [Sorry no pound sign] Old saying: you get what you pay for ... ;)

    I think in the next few weeks we will see nVidia prices drop a lot. I think the 4400 will drop below the 200pound price & you may then be looking at a 4600 for not much more. :grinthumb

    Once the retail 4200's finally come out, we'll be able to know just how much oc'ing the 128mbs' will handle & how they truly compare to the 4400's. As it stands now: we only have previews on 'reference' 4200's to go by. :confused:

    It's a waiting game, to me, right now. Just my thoughts. :D
  13. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    oh well, at least there is 1 thing certain, a new Duron 1.3Ghz to replace my Athlon 900 can't be bad - a cheap CPU upgrade to keep me happier until i decide on which Geforce4 will be worth getting later when the prices settle.
  14. Top_gun

    Top_gun TS Rookie Posts: 81

    a good idea is too wait til August. With Nvidia releasing Nv30, ati releasing R(something), and 3 other companies releasing cards that use Direct X9, their will be a price war. If you can't wait, go for the 4200 128Ram.

    P.S. Like most of you, Im still stuck using 133S-ram and dont want to go for a overhaul on my comp that is 10 months old.(4 months after i got it---Hello, DDR-RAM:mad: )
  15. Snowy Commando

    Snowy Commando TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 205

    Unfortunately, we're all in the same boat if your one of those people still using a KT133(a) chipset mobo which supports everything except DDR-SDRAM.

    I probably can't wait and will want a Geforce4 4200 with 64MB as the cheapest £150 option or Geforce 4 TI4400 for £210 and I don't need to think about waiting for the latest as i'm happy to pay between £150-£210 every 18 months or so when video needs upgrading.
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