TechSpot

Project CARS Benchmarked, Tested

By Steve
May 11, 2015
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  1. Project CARS (or Community Assisted Racing Simulator) is a racing simulation game that's been on everyone's radar since its drool-inducing visuals started to make the rounds as far back as 2012.

    Like Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport before it, Project CARS intends to deliver a highly realistic driving simulation. But to distinguish it from the pack, developer Slightly Mad Studios has made the game an open experience that allows players to choose from a variety of motorsports paths and grants immediate access to all tracks and vehicles.

    Project CARS was built on top of an improved version of the Madness engine, which was the basis for the Need for Speed: Shift titles. In short, the game looks amazing and is the most visually impressive racing simulator we have ever seen.

    Read the complete article.

     
  2. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,172   +577

    I can't believe that TechSpot and the game devs are trying to pin this whole thing on AMD.

    Even without optimization, no game should run this bad. There are plenty of indie games being made that have no contact with AMD or Nvidia with smaller teams and yet they seem to be able to optimize for both just fine.

    I think those who are voicing their concern about Nvidia being plastered on everything in the game definitely have a point. This game isn't just un-optimized, it's downright sad what AMD users are getting.

    People on the steam forms are reporting deficiencies between the earlier build and the final one
    http://steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/613957600528900678/#p23

    As in, the final release greatly reduces frames for AMD users.

    There is no excuse, ever, to release a game is such a poor state for a large portion of users. I find it hard to believe a company that doesn't accept any responsibility for the state of it's own game.
     
    NightAntilli likes this.
  3. rp1367

    rp1367 TS Rookie

    Woww!! GTX 960 is powerfull than R9 290x? Who is gonna believe that the game was not poorly coded for AMD users? Havent seen a game that is not balance for the other graphic brand (AMD) user unless it was intentionally coded to underperform. Only a grade school students would ever believe on this type of review. The game graphics is execellent but there is something fishy behind it. There is a reason for me now not to buy this game and in its future game realeses. Disgusting!
     
  4. Roman Galda

    Roman Galda TS Rookie

    So how do you explain this? For those who have AMD GPUs, I asked the big boss Ian Bell the permission to post what he said about AMD's putting the blame on SMS for the perf's problem:

    We've provided AMD with 20 keys for game testing as they work on the driver side.

    But you only have to look at the lesser hardware in the consoles to see how optimised we are on AMD based chips.

    What can I say but he should take better stock of what's happening in his company. We're reaching out to AMD with all of our efforts. We've provided them 20 keys as I say. They were invited to work with us for years.

    Looking through company mails the last I can see they (AMD) talked to us was October of last year.

    Categorically, Nvidia have not paid us a penny. They have though been very forthcoming with support and co-marketing work at their instigation.

    We've had emails back and forth with them yesterday also. I reiterate that this is mainly a driver issue but we'll obviously do anything we can from our side.
     
    cliffordcooley and Jos like this.
  5. Another note, in racing sims 30fps is quite often not enough - an input lag of even a few ms can throw you off, for example when you try to catch/prevent a skid, and 30fps max implies ~33ms frame latency. It's not about the graphics in hardcore racing sims, it's about the feel... not that we mind good graphics and all the extra jazz :)
     
  6. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,891   +1,258

    Well, ComputerBase also tested the game and found that AMD's DX11 driver overhead might be a cause for concern and possible culprit since the performance deficit seems more reliant upon CPU clockspeed than Nvidia's offerings. Not a completely unknown occurrence (as Eurogamer's results here and here show)- hence AMD's prioritization of Mantle.
    Well, we've heard from the game dev, and if there is something clandestine happening I would have thought AMD would have released a statement since the game has been pretty comprehensively covered in reviews. It's not as if either graphics vendor is shy about outing the other at the drop of a hat (Nvidia's Gameworks program got an instant response from AMD not so long ago).
    So, did AMD's GPU performance go from stunning to garbage? and if so, how was it that earlier game performance reviews were reporting much the same deficiencies?

    Might be interesting to see how the 290X scales with CPU clockspeed (min/average framerate, CPU utilization, GPU utilization) versus the 980/970 under the same conditions.
     
    Julio Franco and Steve like this.
  7. rp1367

    rp1367 TS Rookie

    Cant you see something fishy? "Categorically, Nvidia have not paid us a penny" is a reverse phychology. Have you seen the race track where almost all corners of the race track has Nvidia ads? You may tell that to the kids but as an adult consumer like me it is pretty obvious. The game was coded and was released and not even at par with the other brand stronger series. GTX 960 is stronger that R9 290x? Yes for sure Nvidia fans are really happy on this benchmark review results but as a consumer like me can easily tell what is happening at the backdoor.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve TechSpot Editor Topic Starter Posts: 2,216   +1,240

    TechSpot isn’t blaming anyone, we simply stated the facts as they have come to us. I have been speaking with multiple sources at AMD and they all tell us “AMD” is working on a driver fix..

    Roy Taylor said “Right now the performance is an anomaly, since clearly Radeon should perform dramatically better than it does. There is no ‘smoking barrel’ here. No conspiracy, we have been talking and working together for some time and we just need to now dig in and identify the issue. Sometimes these things happen, unfortunate when they do but between us we are confident we will fix the problem.”

    I don’t disagree but comparing indie games to a AAA title doesn’t really make sense as indies don’t push systems to the limit and take advantage of cutting edge graphics technology. When building a game that sets a new benchmark for visuals things like this can happen.

    AMD are probably copping the blame because they didn’t follow the development closely enough.

    You saw right through our cunning plan to fool you all.

    Don’t disagree, we were suggesting a ‘minimum’ of 30fps be as low as gamers should go.

    I wouldn’t assume to know the working relationship here, I suggest you wait until more facts are released or a new driver ;)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
  9. Axle Grease

    Axle Grease TS Booster Posts: 69   +20

    In fact, AMD *has* released a statement of sort...
    ----
    Roy@AMD @amd_roy
    Great chat with Ian, we love @projectcarsgame and are working with them now. Update to follow shortly, rest assured AMD on Project Cars."
    ----
    Yes, that's right Radeon users. Roy Taylor has been paid off by Jen-Hsun Huang to make it appear as though your very awesome conspiracy theories are without substance. The unscrupulous bastid. Go tweet him a damn good thrashing.
     
    dividebyzero, hahahanoobs and Steve like this.
  10. Alpha Gamer

    Alpha Gamer TS Guru Posts: 330   +93

    Steve, thanks for including the 2500k in the last two benchmark sessions.
    Off topic: Witcher 3 preload is on.
     
    hahahanoobs and Steve like this.
  11. SuperVeloce

    SuperVeloce TS Booster Posts: 133   +34

    The thing you all need to know is that AMD and Nvidia needs to repair developer errors in almost every game released. It's not other way around, there is nothing wrong with "un-optimised" driver for specific game, but the game itself is (usually) sorta broken.
     
    hahahanoobs likes this.
  12. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 1,631   +432

    I LOVE the addition of the minimum framerates for the GPU's and the CPU's!!! And you did it in a way that makes the charts that much more pleasing to look at. Also loving the return of the 2500K in the CPU performance section. Great job guys, great job!

    The Kepler performance, or lack thereof is unfortunate. Hopefully these results will make enough waves that forces nVIDIA to reconsider their strategy in that regard.
     
    Julio Franco, SuperVeloce and Steve like this.
  13. Jad Chaar

    Jad Chaar TS Evangelist Posts: 6,477   +965

    Pretty disappointed at optimization... this game got me so hyped up. I love cars and having a game that simulates it perfectly got me excited... but now I am a bit disappointed. Hopefully AMD can iron out their drivers and the developers can optimize their game. I was excited to see the low system requirements but now I question them :(.

    Thanks Steve, for a great review as usual :D.
     
    Julio Franco and Steve like this.
  14. Cryio

    Cryio TS Booster Posts: 192   +58

    Recommended specs doesn't mean a game will run maxed out at 60 fps in 1080p+
     
  15. Moxiy

    Moxiy TS Member Posts: 38

    Wonderful review Steve. The game sure does look stunning, can't wait to get my hands on it :)
     
    Steve likes this.
  16. Puiu

    Puiu TS Evangelist Posts: 1,902   +528

    CPU wise AMD's drivers should perform much better (it is know that they have better multithreading). The overhead people are talking is actually the PhysX engine used by the game which works much better on NVIDIA cards.
    Because of this the framerates tank and are much more influenced by CPU performance when you use an AMD card.

    What the devs of Project CARS are asking is for AMD to create a workaround for NVIDIA's GameWorks.

    And I do believe that free marketing is a form of payment.
     
  17. Benchmarks aside tho, I heard the game handles like a Need for speed shift. Which was a dog in my mind. Reading someone say that about this game is enough to put me off. Hope they have a demo to testes.
     
  18. Peter Farkas

    Peter Farkas TS Addict Posts: 214   +67

    Do you guys remember Crysis 2? It was an "Nvidia The way it's meant to be played" title. And AMD GPUs performed suprisingly bad in the benchmarks? Then it turned out they intentionally put a sea below each map, that the GPU was still rendering, though it was never visible. And that this didnt cause issues for Nvidia GPUs, but screwed AMD?? That was pretty ugly. These guys have a lot of dirty tricks going on in the background... This is how the game is meant to be played between Nvidia and AMD... lol
     
    NightAntilli and rp1367 like this.
  19. Cryio

    Cryio TS Booster Posts: 192   +58

    It didn't screw nothing. The water stuff and tessellation on the chest-high barriers did almost nothing to performance. Water, tessellated or not, was there from the beggining, in DX9, wasting performance anyway. It really didn't affect performance almost at all on both sides.
     
  20. hahahanoobs

    hahahanoobs TS Evangelist Posts: 1,631   +432

    And it was eventually fixed meaning AMD and the developer could of caught it before release, but they didn't. Same with the first two Batman Arkham games.
     
  21. GhostRyder

    GhostRyder This guy again... Posts: 2,191   +590

    Well for starters guys, Techspot nor @Steve are biased so that basis is completely unjustified as they are reporting what they see nothing more and nothing less.

    As far as the issues go, it looks like AMD is working on a driver fix and probably this month we will get a new driver that will (Hopefully) resolve the issues.

    As for the Kepler debate, I have been hearing that recently from a lot of people as well that they are ignoring the old generation. It has been an on-going debate for a long time (Like Fermi was to Kepler). It looks to be true as well though maybe a new driver will come with optimizations to alleviate this issue.

    Last, as far as the whole are they being paid by NVidia to do bad coding on AMD...Well who know honestly but I do feel there is at least something along the lines of assistance from NVidia otherwise they would not have so many add's plastered in their game for them. But I do not think they intentionally hindered the hardware, more than likely they just did not do much testing on AMD hardware because AMD did not work with them enough.

    Excellent review @Steve !
     
    Steve and Julio Franco like this.
  22. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 8,550   +2,894

    That's what I was thinking.

    Personally I think AMD has had restructuring as a top priority, and chose not to pay this much attention until their priority list has been taken care of. Seriously why waste time optimizing for drivers that will most certainly change drastically in an upcoming platform.

    If we want to see great things from AMD, we have to be patient with them as they work to vindicate their past short comings. This is something I could forsee the day AMD said they would no longer be computing with Intel head-on. I had suspicions AMD needed to hide in the shadows while they came up with a new plan.

    Do we want AMD using man hours optimizing a single game or concentrating on the next generation of computing?
     
    Julio Franco likes this.
  23. Evernessince

    Evernessince TS Evangelist Posts: 1,172   +577

    When your entire post is a quote from the article, you might as well not bother, you can't seem to think of anything to say.

    As I said in my comment, these Devs do nothing but try to blame AMD with this. I can't say I believe any of it after debacles with EA and Ubisoft.

    Your words
    "So it seems AMD have been slacking off, something we have certainly noticed this year."

    This statement is past tense, meaning are already believe that AMD has done something.

    I'm sure if you cherry pick your results, from a less than reputable source, you can get benchmarks to say whatever you want.

    http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Proje.../Project-Cars-Bechmarks-Grafikkarten-1106410/

    Here's another less than reputable website's benchmark from 2014 that states AMD's performance as good.
     
    speedforce131 likes this.
  24. LNCPapa

    LNCPapa TS Special Forces Posts: 4,210   +424

    One reason journalists have to site all their sources is quite often when people try to "think of something to say" they end up filling in the things that they don't know details about with garbage or bias based on their own personal experiences. People with different experiences will think it's crap and we eventually spiral into these flame wars or incredibly unproductive crap-flinging threads.

    I tend to give most people (developers included except EA) the benefit of the doubt. Who wants to make something and then intentionally cripple it other than a sociopath? I think too many people work too hard and pour so much of themselves into these projects for there to be as much conspiracy as people seem to think there is. If evidence comes out that it was intentional... and that evidence is shared with me then it's a different story. For now I'll believe SMS.
     
    Steve likes this.

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