TechSpot

Re-instating the draft "Where do you stand?"

By smore9648
Nov 20, 2006
Post New Reply
  1. Some democrats are trying to bring back the draft and obviously many are against it.

    What are your thoughts and stand point on the issue?


    For me. As a former soldier & combat veteran, I support the draft for certain reasons.

    A lot of people say they support the military and appreciate what we did or do. But if the circumstances come around where the supporters suddenly get the call to duty for their country and become one of the soldiers they supported, what would they think then? Its easier to be a chairmanatarian and tree-hugger when you are sitting in your home with your family during the holidays. But would you be willing to fight for your country and beloved freedom that you once cheered for from the comfort of your home.

    I believe, from my experience, that the military is not for everyone but if you are called to serve duty you should do it with pride and honor like millions have done before. Yes there are bad apples in the military just like everywhere else but that does not mean you are made that way, you make yourself that way.

    So would I support the draft, yes I would.

    I believe everyone should serve 5 years in the military just to experience what its like to be taken away from loved ones and serve in envoirments that you have only watched from your TV. Nobody is too good to serve for the military in my eyes.

    This separates the rockstars from the groupies, which one are you?

    Would you serve or would you run for Canada?
     
  2. howard_hopkinso

    howard_hopkinso TS Rookie Posts: 24,177   +19

    Obviously I`m from the UK, so I can`t really comment on the US`s way of doing things.

    That said, we used to have a draft here in the UK, only it was called national service, where all eligible men had to serve 2 years in the armed forces.

    I for one would gladly support the return of the said national service should it ever be reinstated. I believe it would be of great benefit to both the county as a whole and also to the individual as well. Whether it will ever happen here is another question.

    I already have a son in the army. He`a been in for 8 years and has served in northern Ireland, Germany and Iraq. He is due to go out to Afghanistan sometime next year.

    Regards Howard :)
     
  3. sghiznaneck

    sghiznaneck TS Maniac Posts: 403

    I, too served my country in the Army. I just retired in 2004 after 25 years of service. I entered in 1989 and retired and I'll have to admit, I agree with the draft, but if the only reason is due to the events in the middle east, I can't support it. Don't get me wrong; I believe that with the way the world events and terrorism at the forefront, we need to defend ourselves, but I've had too many friends (and relatives) serve over there and they've had nothing good to say. It's more political than what we are being led to believe. Oil shipments are being pumped out of the ground, but then they are mysteriously disappearing once barrelled up and placed on ships. I have a very good friend in Logistics (full bird colonel) and he was responsible for reports and accounting of these shipments. They would show up as inventory, and then be stricken from shipment records. When he asked questions about the "paper trail" since he was responsible (his signature was affixed to these reports), he was told to shut up and not ask questions.
    I also spent a tour working in the now defunked CONUSA's, where small numbers of RA supported the Reserves, and I have to admit that after serving three years in that environment, anyone who wants to join the reserves should serve a minimum of 2 years in the Regulars. There is no sense of urgency, no direction and the leadership was a sham. The higher ups were mostly those who were RIFFed from the active components, or attained the officer ranks due to college and short Officer Branch schools administered by the Reserve program.
    All in all, yes, I would support it, but that's my opinion based upon the fact that I served honorably and faithfully.
     
  4. AtK SpAdE

    AtK SpAdE TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,495

    To be honest sghiznaneck said pretty much how I feel on the topic. Yes it should be done, just not for the current mid-east occupation.
     
  5. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697

    I work for the reserves and agree. Good people to know but..............

    The Iraq is just what it is......a blender. Soldiers react to orders from the president. Too many bad calls were made from the white, too trigger happy, must be texas thing.

    My opinion is that we should have never been there to begin with the information that was initially given to us. Yes its definately a ground for terrorists and the world council has a duty to stragetically plan out such duties to minimize these factions.
    We had an awesome plan to kick *** and take names in the beginning but a dillusional plan after "the war ended" which obviously never stopped.

    I believe in a draft but we could bring in too many of the wrong people, anti-goverment/anti-americans "factions" This process needs to be carefully planned out before executing another blundered order

    BTW Howard.

    Good luck to your son:approve:
     
  6. techwarrior

    techwarrior TS Rookie

    I don't believe in the draft. Poor kids, mostly black and unable to afford college, go into the draft. The rich kids and students in college can avoid the draft. It is a racial and economically biased system that I don't agree with.

    A better system would be to free up some of the overcrowding prisons. Innmates can choose if they want to serve or not, those that serve get their sentence removed or reduced.

    I don't believe in an involuntary military.
     
  7. Grr_San_jose_Ca

    Grr_San_jose_Ca TS Rookie Posts: 91

    I think that people shouldnt be forced to go into the armed forces but instead server on their own free will.
     
  8. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697

    It should be and it is currently but if a major crisis like the one in the middle east happens, what are going to do? Run our people into the ground and keep sending them back to back rotations with little to no pause of recovery?
    Not possible.

    For those of us who have served in a war, the experience is very mentally challenging and physical to say the least. No matter what kind of position you do, you can come of in three types of ways or a combination of two.

    1.Body Bag

    2.Missing a limb, wounded etc...

    3. Post traumatic syndrome (I.E.... hysterical,depressed,anxiety etc..

    Now lets say you ever exposed to these connditions for say a year. Then went home to normal life, for say 6 months, only to turn around to go back to hell because there are not enough people to rotate around to give other units to recover. The draft would help solve this issue
     
  9. Grr_San_jose_Ca

    Grr_San_jose_Ca TS Rookie Posts: 91


    I see your point it i would only support the draft if it were like in a really really bad situation. this is kind of off-topic but one of my dad's brothers when he came back from the war he would only listen to the radio and would always tell a storie of how he encountered another soldier and he had to kill him with his helmet b/c he had run out of ammo he became insane and eventually he would always listen to the radio have a radio every where he went. he would wake up in the middle of the night scared and sweaty, well this was kind of offtopic but i just wanted to share
     
  10. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697


    I believe prisoners should be sent to a war, only certain ones though. If they hold up and do well in their tour then they should be let back in society.

    Rich kids should be the first ones thrown in the military because some of them, if not all, need a dose of real life.

    College kids tend to join the military for the educational benefits already or have already graduated and become officers.
     
  11. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697

    I can't say I share is exact experience but understand him.
     
  12. Nodsu

    Nodsu TS Rookie Posts: 5,837   +6

    Afghanistan+Iraq did not "happen". Some people decided that they do have enough young men to send off to die and made a decision to create a "crisis". And now when the blood stores are starting to run dry, it has become necessary to bring in the fresh meat.

    IMO draft is good - you get a population that you can rely on in a defensive crisis. OTOH, I think that for any foreign missions only volunteers or professional soldiers should be used.
     
  13. sghiznaneck

    sghiznaneck TS Maniac Posts: 403

    The biggest problem I see over the recent discussions about reinstating the draft is because this war is so unpopular, we've been lied to since the beginning about the real reason behind the war, and people have wised up to the intentions of that guy in the White House. He used the guise of terrorism to gain support for his going into Iran. Just take a look at the recruitment stats here. When I retired in 2004, the age for enlistment was 17 (with your parents consent) to age 32. Now, it's still 17 with consent, but it's been upped to 42 now. That tells you something. They're offering $40,000 in bonuses to a hollow military. Our young are more educated today than when I enlisted in 1989, and they can smell a scam a mile away. When this country was going through the thralls of Vietnam, the masses condemned the wrong people, the soldiers. Today, it's the complete opposite. The blame for the failures are not put on the soldier who's doing his job and shedding his blood, but the lying politicians. Do you think they would send their kids? No. In all the members of the House and Senate, there is only one politician who has a son in the military AND serving in Iraq. I can't remember his name, but he's from Arizona or New Mexico. I can't remember, but this was something that hit the news a few weeks ago. Although I am in support of the draft, I am NOT in support of the draft if the main purpose is to send our sons and daughters to the middle east under the ruse of terrorism.
     
  14. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697

    I believe there are only 8 sons or daughters of politicians in Iraq.
    There needs to be more, then they might think twice before dropping us in a blender/blunder like this again.

    My wife and I both served in Iraq at the same time, she got out once here ETS date came around but she just recently got back in and received a 20k bonus.
     
  15. cfitzarl

    cfitzarl TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,975   +9

    Prisoners are in jail for a reason; they don't belong in society. If we do allow them to be sent into society for a country's sake, we should have a strict filtration system that would not allow the "murderers" and other people back into the "streets" where they do not belong. Maybe people who have shorter sentences (i.e. poeple who have "ripped" off the IRS, or something like that).
    What I am curious on is your paragraph about "rich" kids. I tend to disagree with your theory, because like all of the other "kids" in society, they need to go into the armed forces in a draft (unless they are some politicians family member). I do realize that some bribing had gone on with certain people getting drafted, although times have changed. I feel that the only time we have a draft is when we are extremely short-handed or we are in a terribly fierce battle.

    EDIT:
    And what techwarrior said was completely wrong. All races and nationalities have to go into a draft. No one has a choice either. Our country is a lot different from when we had our last draft as well.
     
  16. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697


    I said some criminals, not all, the death row inmates should be used to clear IEDs and even if they survived they still get to be executed

    I said rich kids need to go, I give a damn about political immunity
     
  17. Blakhart

    Blakhart TS Rookie Posts: 353

    Regardless, it should be in place by the time the festivities with Iran begin.
     
  18. cfitzarl

    cfitzarl TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,975   +9

    Or if things become worse, North Korea.
     
  19. hewybo

    hewybo TS Maniac Posts: 435

    REAL emergencies only

    I was drafted in May, 1968. I was not poor (though I am now), I was not black (and am not now), so cannot speak from personal experience about the "evenhandedness" (or lack thereof) in administering a national service system, but I do believe some sort of "draft/national service" system should be implemented. Not now, however, just to bolster the wrong president in the wrong war.

    I agreed with the process that led us into Afghanistan, and the dismantling of the terrorist-training Taliban regime. (Still can't fathom how our vaunted "intelligence" machinery weren't able to find the tallest man in the country)

    Our entry into Iraq was predicated on false information and outright lies, and has led to nothing better than the establishment of Iran, Jr., and a new terrorist training base, so I believe the only people who should have to serve there are staunch Bush/Cheney/Haliburton supporters, friends, and relatives. Once we have managed to extricate ourselves from this morass, Congress should consider a mandatory service system, and implement it ONLY after a 2/3 majority of BOTH branches on BOTH sides of the aisle approve it.:knock:
     
  20. smore9648

    smore9648 TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 697

    We can find the cow with mad cow disease by its state, handler and what stall its in or the spinach with ecoli by state, farm and garden its in.

    But we cannot find the most wanted terrorist in the world. Seems a bit strange.

    Maybe we need to the health department to search for Bin Laden
     
  21. MarcFOnline

    MarcFOnline TS Rookie Posts: 74

    I agree with you, Hewybo. I believe it would be a good thing to supplement our enlisted personnel with civilian draftees in cases of extreme need for a just cause... frankly, I don't know enough about the current mess in the Middle East to offer an informed opinion on the matter, but from what little truth I can glean between the spin we get from the government AND the news, this doesn't seem to fit the bill as a completely "just war".

    I believe the military is a very good thing -- it teaches discipline and trust for fellow soldiers -- but I believe it would be tragic to just feed more and more people into a hell hole if there is no clear strategy for victory. I cannot help but feel like we would be sacrificing some of the bravest and most heroic Americans for the wrong cause.

    Granted, terrorism is absolutely terrible, and tyrants shouldn't be allowed to remain in power (take World War II for instance!)... but things going on right now just feel as if they've gone way beyond solving either of those problems and... well, I honestly don't know what's going on.

    Gosh... my mind was everywhere in that post. I guess I say all that to say that there is absolutely a time and a place for a draft, but now isn't it.
     
  22. greatman05

    greatman05 TS Maniac Posts: 429

    Terrorism is terrible.....WTF ever! We shouldn't use a draft! First off, there have been many war horror stories about people going crazy after fighting a war. Second of all, instating a draft means the government can legally kill you. The Army, Marines, etc. have all been glorified, but let's show the picture they don't show you...OVERLY HARD DRILL OFFICERS YELLING COMMANDS INTO YOUR EARS LIKE YOU'RE A DOG, AND THEN MAKING YOU DO THINGS YOU NORMALLY WOULDN'T DO....
    In short, I would rather jump off a bridge than be instated into the draft, and that's being nice...or I would just simply dodge the draft.....
     
  23. MarcFOnline

    MarcFOnline TS Rookie Posts: 74

    Hmm... honestly, I think we agree on more about this issue than you think.

    That's absolutely true. War is a horrible thing, there's no denying that. I actually labeled myself a full pacifist until very recently, when I just couldn't get out of my mind that there really wasn't any other way around World War II (I'll use that as an example since it was recent). Even then, though, the word "terrible" doesn't even begin to describe the horrors that people saw in that war. However, when you consider the even greater horrors that were brought to an end as a result, I believe that in the end, we can look back on that war as a "just war". (If you can't tell, I belong to the "just war" school of thought.)

    Yes, those are uncomfortable parts of the military. Part of the reason why drill officers are so tough is to instill in their soldiers the fact that what they are undertaking is not easy, not pleasant, and certainly not to be taken lightly. Granted, there are certainly drill officers that go "over the top" with this... and the military is definitely not without its faults. But as for the government "legally kill[ing] you"? That seems a bit extreme... Although I believe the current mess we're in over in Iraq isn't ideal, I don't for a second believe the government is intentionally trying to kill our men and women in uniform. I may disagree with them, but let's not go overboard here.

    In the case of a draft, I'll reiterate what I said before... there's a time and place for it in the case of extreme and dire need, but now is not it. As citizens of this nation, we must expect that if our country were under attack and the personnel of our military were not sufficient to adequately defend against the enemy, there may come a time when we must act on her behalf.

    Granted, not everyone is comfortable with taking up arms against an enemy. There are alternative ways of serving your country in that case. I just can't support the idea of deserting... if we were run by a tyrannical government, that would be one thing, but let's face it -- we may not always agree with those in power at the moment, but things could be much worse. If we're going to be citizens of this country when everything is A-OK, then that means we must still be citizens when things aren't. And that may require us, much as it makes us uncomfortable, to do something.

    Anyways, I respect that you hold a very strong opinion on this matter, and thanks for your reply.
     
  24. greatman05

    greatman05 TS Maniac Posts: 429

    Thank you. Finally someone understands my opinion...
     
  25. Nodsu

    Nodsu TS Rookie Posts: 5,837   +6

    Actually, there were many ways. Starting with proper support to devastated Germany after World War I. Or with, at the last moment, decisive action to prevent the German remilitarization of Rheinland or the annexation of Czechoslovakia and Austria. Or, any opportunities in between (strengthen non-nazi political forces). It is just that no one really cared or foresaw what was coming. We all know better now :)
     

Similar Topics

Add New Comment

You need to be a member to leave a comment. Join thousands of tech enthusiasts and participate.
TechSpot Account You may also...