Sapphire 5770 - VGA vs HDMI

[deanlaing12]

For the last year, I have been happy to use the VGA cable for my pc because I was connecting it directly to the vga port in my tv/monitor. It did the job perfectly with full 1080p.

HOWEVER!

If I try to plug in the HDMI (which I will have to do with the new gpu I am getting), I would get the 1 inch black border problem. Apparently this happens when you use ATI cards with tv's instead of a monitor.

So I figured, go into the AMD vision engine control centre and adjust the scaling. This gets rid of the black border and boosts me back up to the proper side for 1080p on my tv.

The problem I now have is that my image looks a complete mess... it looks pixilated... so I took down the contrast and sharpness on the settings for the monitor... but it still looks like crap.


Does anyone have any solutions as to how I can get the best image quality from my hdmi tv with the hdmi cable from my 5770?

 

[GhostRyder]

Sortta, I had a similar issue where the image quality just did not live up to what HDMI was, now bear in mind for me I have 6990s so things might be slightly different, but you should have the same control panel look/configs.

Now I first set the monitor to overscan in catalyst control center which is under My Digital Flat Panels, and then scaling options which will remove the border.

Next is the other part I had to do, in the same area under My Digital Flat Panels, go to HDTV support, from there, you should see some lists that you can scroll through, in the top list look for the NTSC (Well you need to use your area, NTSC is in America) and click the one for your display (Which if im guessing correctly, should be a check mark in the Box for 1080p60).

Hope that helps, if it doesn't let me know!

 

[Jad Chaar]

That black border is overscan---this is a common annoyance of HDMI.

 

[St1ckM4n]

Turn scaling to 'display'. Make sure you're using TV native resolution, or try 1920x1080. Play with your TV aspect ratio and 'input label' settings - put label to PC.

The VGA port on your TV is set to an expected PC output, but quality is a lot worse than HDMI. Oh, and no HDCP.

 

[LNCPapa]

'input label' settings - put label to PC.

This especially if it's a Samsung TV.

 

[deanlaing12]

Thanks for replying guys!

No luck on the problem though.

HDMI works flawlessly from my xbox.

HDMI works but is cap compared to VGA.

I have just formatted my pc and hard-drives, re-installed everything.

My guess is that the gpu is sending the wrong signal to begin with. What I mean is that, I automaticaly get the black boarders right, without adjusting the scaling. Despite everything being set to 1080p @ 60Hz.

I am going to hazard a guess that the video card for some reason has decided to shrink the image being displayed and only gives an option to streatch that image, rather than revert to the proper size.

So basicaly, my theory is this:

Start with 1080p, video card shrink to whatever size... so let's just pretend it is now 480p.

Then with gpu scaling I can bump the scale of the image back to the original 24" size for my monitor...

So instead of getting 1080p on my 24" monitor, I am getting 480p instead.

I hope this makes sense to someone out there, and I hope someone can help me resolve the issue...

I have done extensive re-search online and no one has fixed this problem fully.

The only thing I can think of is if I up-date my monitor with a usb cable somehow... perhapse it will unlock extra features to allow pc using the HDMI port...?

Sortta, I had a similar issue where the image quality just did not live up to what HDMI was, now bear in mind for me I have 6990s so things might be slightly different, but you should have the same control panel look/configs.

Now I first set the monitor to overscan in catalyst control center which is under My Digital Flat Panels, and then scaling options which will remove the border.

Next is the other part I had to do, in the same area under My Digital Flat Panels, go to HDTV support, from there, you should see some lists that you can scroll through, in the top list look for the NTSC (Well you need to use your area, NTSC is in America) and click the one for your display (Which if im guessing correctly, should be a check mark in the Box for 1080p60).

Hope that helps, if it doesn't let me know!

It has not helped me, sad to say

But thanks for your input, it opened my eyes up to the other features.

Turn scaling to 'display'. Make sure you're using TV native resolution, or try 1920x1080. Play with your TV aspect ratio and 'input label' settings - put label to PC.

The VGA port on your TV is set to an expected PC output, but quality is a lot worse than HDMI. Oh, and no HDCP.

What do you mean by, "Input Label Settings" ? If you mean, re-naming a channel, then I have no idea how to do that on my monitor... I see no options to.

Currently using a: L24DVDB21 - Logik - 24" HD Ready

 

[Rage_3K_Moiz]

As per your TV manual, "Although this TV is compatible with a 1080p input, the screen is not capable of
displaying this resolution and consequently the image will be scaled to suit the screen."

Found on page 13; PDF available here.

 

[deanlaing12]

As per your TV manual, "Although this TV is compatible with a 1080p input, the screen is not capable of
displaying this resolution and consequently the image will be scaled to suit the screen."

Found on page 13; PDF available here.

This is true but it works flawlessly with VGA and HDMI with the Xbox.


I have found some ground breaking results though!

It turns out that the EDID is being miss-read by the pc when connecting with HDMI and therefor sends a different signal.

With a NVidia card, it is possible to customize the drivers before the software is installed.

With AMD however, it appears this will require a lot more hex editing and manual labour.


I am not sure it is worth upgrading to HDMI, it costs too much time



Let me know if anyone has found a way to easily override the EDID...

As it stands, I am looking at this guide: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038495309&postcount=438

(I do not care if I loose the audio, I use optical to the surround system so hdmi audio is useless in my case.)

 

[GhostRyder]

I had that issue though when using my 32inch Insignia 1080p120hz tv, it was all fuzzy using HDMI for some reason on my AMD cards and that solution worked for me, let me see if I can test it again and see if theres something different Idid that I forgot to mention, but the difference when I changed those settings made it Crystal clear.

 

[St1ckM4n]

• There's a difference between 1080p, 720p, and standard PC resolutions of 1920x1080.
• There's also a difference between TV's and PC monitors.
• You're using a 24inch TV as a monitor. To make things easy, just buy a cheap monitor - far cheaper than TV anyway.
• There's a difference between ability to 'display 1080p content' and having a resolution of 1920x1080.

This is true but it works flawlessly with VGA

VGA inputs on TV are set to display natively, using the old analogue VGA connection. This is why you have no problems. You do, however, have problems with image quality. Whether you can see/distinguish this is irrelevant, the poor quality is definitely there.

(works fine with...)HDMI with the Xbox.

Yep, that's because it's a TV and an Xbox - two things made to work together.


Here's a list of factors that affect your ability to connect your PC to your TV via HDMI, and get a nice full picture. I'll highlight things in bold which are the general 'correct' options.

1. TV manufacturer. Some are just stupid and won't ever work 100%. My personal TV does work, but I still don't think the picture quality is as best as possible...
2. Input labels. You have inputs for VGA (PC), Component, AV1, AV2, HDMI1, HDMI2... Some TV's allow you to set a label for these. You need to set PC as the label, and swap between all HDMI inputs anyway, to see the difference.
3. TV settings. The settings menu on the TV makes a big difference and I'm not even going to go into detail to find out the setting for your particular TV, sorry. But, do note, that there is a different setting menu for each input, especially VGA. Note, changing the input label can present you with a new menu option.
4. Resolution. Your TV isn't a full HD screen, so any 1080p input is scaled by the TV. Find the native resolution of your TV, set your PC output to this.
5. Aspect ratio. 4:3, 16:9, Auto, Zoom1, Zoom2... Change between these and try to see which works better. Changing inputs, or input labels, can result in different aspect ratio settings.
6. Scaling. With the Xbox, it is outputting 1080p signal and letting the TV handle it. Go to AMD settings, My digital flat panels, Properties. In there, you can change the image scaling properties. Usually, let the TV do the scaling (after setting to native resolution).
7. EDID and HDTV modes. You've mentioned this above, here's the options. AMD, my digital panels, HDTV support. Play with these options.
8. Avoid 'custom resolutions' that you make to fit the screen. These are not standards-based resolutions. Things may look fine on the 2D desktop (web browsing etc), but games will STILL not render correctly and may not have the ability to select the custom resolution.

That may possibly be it. I am confident that your problem is a combination of incorrect settings out of the above. Personally, I have a Panasonic plasma non-full-HD TV. To get nice picture, I set PC to output at the native 1366x768 resolution, set scaling to TV. This results in a small picture on screen, with large black border. I then use Zoom2 aspect ratio to expand the screen to full size. It's not perfect, but it's >90%.

Good luck.

 

[deanlaing12]

• There's a difference between 1080p, 720p, and standard PC resolutions of 1920x1080.
• There's also a difference between TV's and PC monitors.
• You're using a 24inch TV as a monitor. To make things easy, just buy a cheap monitor - far cheaper than TV anyway.
• There's a difference between ability to 'display 1080p content' and having a resolution of 1920x1080.

VGA inputs on TV are set to display natively, using the old analogue VGA connection. This is why you have no problems. You do, however, have problems with image quality. Whether you can see/distinguish this is irrelevant, the poor quality is definitely there.

Yep, that's because it's a TV and an Xbox - two things made to work together.


Here's a list of factors that affect your ability to connect your PC to your TV via HDMI, and get a nice full picture. I'll highlight things in bold which are the general 'correct' options.

1. TV manufacturer. Some are just stupid and won't ever work 100%. My personal TV does work, but I still don't think the picture quality is as best as possible...
2. Input labels. You have inputs for VGA (PC), Component, AV1, AV2, HDMI1, HDMI2... Some TV's allow you to set a label for these. You need to set PC as the label, and swap between all HDMI inputs anyway, to see the difference.
3. TV settings. The settings menu on the TV makes a big difference and I'm not even going to go into detail to find out the setting for your particular TV, sorry. But, do note, that there is a different setting menu for each input, especially VGA. Note, changing the input label can present you with a new menu option.
4. Resolution. Your TV isn't a full HD screen, so any 1080p input is scaled by the TV. Find the native resolution of your TV, set your PC output to this.
5. Aspect ratio. 4:3, 16:9, Auto, Zoom1, Zoom2... Change between these and try to see which works better. Changing inputs, or input labels, can result in different aspect ratio settings.
6. Scaling. With the Xbox, it is outputting 1080p signal and letting the TV handle it. Go to AMD settings, My digital flat panels, Properties. In there, you can change the image scaling properties. Usually, let the TV do the scaling (after setting to native resolution).
7. EDID and HDTV modes. You've mentioned this above, here's the options. AMD, my digital panels, HDTV support. Play with these options.
8. Avoid 'custom resolutions' that you make to fit the screen. These are not standards-based resolutions. Things may look fine on the 2D desktop (web browsing etc), but games will STILL not render correctly and may not have the ability to select the custom resolution.

That may possibly be it. I am confident that your problem is a combination of incorrect settings out of the above. Personally, I have a Panasonic plasma non-full-HD TV. To get nice picture, I set PC to output at the native 1366x768 resolution, set scaling to TV. This results in a small picture on screen, with large black border. I then use Zoom2 aspect ratio to expand the screen to full size. It's not perfect, but it's >90%.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot for your input on this matter!

I will just go through your points one at a time with what I have set-up.

#1 - I believe the Monitor/T.V is not made to run a PC from it's HDMI port. Nothing in the Manual about it.
#2 - I have went through every single option visible on my t.v./monitor and there is nothing about labeling sadly.
#3 - I have tried taking down the sharpness, but it only blurs things. Also, as said above, I can't change any lables, it is not an option on this T.V/Monitor.
#4 - No idea what you mean here, my T.V. is 1080p, the settings in my pc are "ALL" set to 1080p.
#5 - I tried changing the aspect ratio but none of them fit on the screen properly. All overlap or present a bigger overlap.
#6 - Technically, the Xbox can only handle 720p but it scales to 1080p, but I know what you are saying and yes. Though scaling the image up after it has been shrunk makes the screen blocky.
#7 - I will need to keep mixing up all of the above solutions with this.
#8 - Agreed.

It might be worth noting that I do not plan on purchasing a new Monitor any time soon... I am already struggling to find money for my tower, psu, and gpu. I will struggle with this for a little longer.

Thanks again for all of your help, I will keep testing and flipping all of the settings.

To do: Set scaling to 0, Adjust Zoom options on monitor...

To find out: How to change labels on my t.v/Monitor.

If anyone else fancies reading through this manual with me, that would be grand. (See bottom of page 13 - Gray information box - HDMI Might not work on all devices)

 

[tipstir]

I use AMD Vision to HDTV no issues with 1080i/1080p. What settings did you use?