So you only have PCI slots and want to game?

[teklord]

Another new PCI card, Jaton 8400GS 1GB version this time lol
http://db.jaton.com.tw/VGAProductDetail.aspx?P_ID=84558KQ-512A

Wow, the new king of wastefulness, quite a find General. $200 dollars on PCI-e can get you at least a GTX 260, which is countless times more powerful than this epic waste of money. If you are going to run something in SLI on the PCI bus, I would think it should at least be the 9400GT or better and that is a waste of time and money IMO as the PCI bus can barely handle one of those cards.

 

[jives11]

been away from this forum for a while.

My Dell Dimension 2350 which has the PCI 8500GT Sparkle card had a refit . I swapped the 2 * 512 Mb DDR 2700 memory sims for 2 * 1Gb simms, despite Dell saying this PC only supports <= 1Gb. BIOS see's 2Gb and windows sees 2Gb so that's OK. Updated nVidia to latest driver and also directX, also de-crapped and de-fragged the hard drive. Ran 3dmark and scored 5625, and that is with no O/C this time

 

[teklord]

been away from this forum for a while.

My Dell Dimension 2350 which has the PCI 8500GT Sparkle card had a refit . I swapped the 2 * 512 Mb DDR 2700 memory sims for 2 * 1Gb simms, despite Dell saying this PC only supports <= 1Gb. BIOS see's 2Gb and windows sees 2Gb so that's OK. Updated nVidia to latest driver and also directX, also de-crapped and de-fragged the hard drive. Ran 3dmark and scored 5625, and that is with no O/C this time

Good to see you posting again jives11. HP says my PC can only handle 1GB of RAM but everyone else says it can take 2GB, so I have the same problem. There are lots of little things you can do to improve FPS, using a sound card helps take the load off the CPU and reducing the amount of background processes in Windows Task Manager helps improve load times as I believe you once suggested.

Curious to know if upcoming PCI cards like the 9500GT have your interest or if you are content with the 8500GT? I personally would like a 9500GT but only as a stopgap while saving for a PCI-e 2.0 rig. Still strapped financially after all this time posting about PCI cards. :monkey:

 

[jives11]

Good to see you posting again jives11. HP says my PC can only handle 1GB of RAM but everyone else says it can take 2GB, so I have the same problem. There are lots of little things you can do to improve FPS, using a sound card helps take the load off the CPU and reducing the amount of background processes in Windows Task Manager helps improve load times as I believe you once suggested.

Curious to know if upcoming PCI cards like the 9500GT have your interest or if you are content with the 8500GT? I personally would like a 9500GT but only as a stopgap while saving for a PCI-e 2.0 rig. Still strapped financially after all this time posting about PCI cards. :monkey:

Thank you Teklord. Well I guess your best bet is just to try 2Gb. If the BIOS and Windows see's it then it's OK. If it don't then you just have to sell the extra 1Gb or use it in another PC.

Your soundcard advice is interesting but .... While the soundcard will save CPU cycles it will also use IRQ's and create some PCI latency ? It's a good idea to offload work. Other ideas might be to get a better IDE controller or even look at solid state disks.
I think I'll stick with the 8500 Sparkle as the PC in question is mostly used for playing music these days by my son

 

[Tha General]

Your soundcard advice is interesting but .... While the soundcard will save CPU cycles it will also use IRQ's and create some PCI latency ?

You talking about shared IRQ's, if so, shared irq's are not a problem. Here is how my setup looks with my sound blaster:


Or are you talking about stuttering in sound? If so, i use to get that in windows 98. But switching over to w2k or XP pro, none of that doesn't exist anymore.

Wow, the new king of wastefulness, quite a find General. $200 dollars on PCI-e can get you at least a GTX 260, which is countless times more powerful than this epic waste of money. If you are going to run something in SLI on the PCI bus, I would think it should at least be the 9400GT or better and that is a waste of time and money IMO as the PCI bus can barely handle one of those cards.

I always report new pci cards, but i have no plans to buy that jaton 8400gs 1gb. I already have a bfg 8400gs, my next pci card i plan to buy is the Albatron 8500gt or 8600gt. I know where to get them, so i will get one when i get the chance.
I am buying a new rig in the next few days, so the 8500gt or 8600gt will be a great card to use for it. I am buying either a pentium dual core, or celeron dual core, from best buy btw.

Ran 3dmark and scored 5625, and that is with no O/C this time

Is that bad?
How is gaming?

 

[jives11]

well when I first got the 8500 I scored 4911 (no overclock), so now I'm getting 5625 (no overclock). Possibly down to improvements in the nVidia drivers but I suspect it's more down to doubling the memory. From a gaming perspective I'll have to wait until my testing assistant has given me his verdict. However I think 3dmark is a pretty good indicator of real gaming performance. The scenarios follow classic game styles.

 

[teklord]

While the soundcard will save CPU cycles it will also use IRQ's and create some PCI latency ?

Yes, it will use up some of the PCI shared 133mb bandwidth, but the sound doesn't use nearly as much bandwidth as the visual data on screen does. That's why there are so many sound cards for the pci bus because it doesn't require that much bandwidth. It used to be the other way around, with the sound being the space hog and the graphics not taking as much space. I believe the CPU usage you will save will outweigh the bandwidth used by the sound card and you should notice a slight improvement in quality over the AC97 or whatever is on your PC as long as you have a half decent sound card.

I always report new pci cards, but i have no plans to buy that jaton 8400gs 1gb.

I meant the video card when I said it was the king of wastefulness. I would never buy that thing and I don't know why they think anyone else would either. At least it's slightly better than the 6200x2 PCI card, so in other words your 200 dollars is noticeably less utterly wasted.

 

[LinkedKube]

I meant the video card when I said it was the king of wastefulness. I would never buy that thing and I don't know why they think anyone else would either. At least it's slightly better than the 6200x2 PCI card, so in other words your 200 dollars is noticeably less utterly wasted.

Agreed, but the most important issue imo when you consider a pci card over 100 usd is price-performance in which you'd think someone that's buying a pci card has no choice because he/she cant afford to upgrade to a pci E motherboard. For 200 dollars you can get a cheap c2d or amd cpu, ram, mobo with onboard graphics easy, if you shop enough you could get a cheapo 7 series card on ebay for 40 bucks, that would out perform a pci card with no hick ups.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

if you shop enough you could get a cheapo 7 series card on ebay for 40 bucks, that would out perform a pci card with no hick ups.

QFT. I have a 7800GTX PCIe that would beat the everloving s*** out of ANY Nvidia x400 or x500 series and its only worth about 20-30 resale.

PCI is a poor fiscal investment.

 

[iMoose]

QFT. I have a 7800GTX PCIe that would beat the everloving s*** out of ANY Nvidia x400 or x500 series and its only worth about 20-30 resale.

PCI is a poor fiscal investment.

Yup. Seems like AGP cards all kind of hit a level that they don't drop below though.

But this is a PCI thread, so I'll shut up now.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

This is PCIe I'm talking. To UPGRADE to an AGP system at this point would make less sense than staying with PCI as far as money's concerned.

 

[Seaner71]

been away from this forum for a while.

My Dell Dimension 2350 which has the PCI 8500GT Sparkle card had a refit . I swapped the 2 * 512 Mb DDR 2700 memory sims for 2 * 1Gb simms, despite Dell saying this PC only supports <= 1Gb. BIOS see's 2Gb and windows sees 2Gb so that's OK. Updated nVidia to latest driver and also directX, also de-crapped and de-fragged the hard drive. Ran 3dmark and scored 5625, and that is with no O/C this time

Hey this caought my interest, did you do anything special to get that extra gig of ram to run, cause i would love to have 2gb on my 2350, its my PCI gaming Machine, I have better, but this one is still nice. What BIOS revision are you running, what brand/ speed of DDR did you use? I just found a 2.4ghz Pentium 4 to replace the 2 ghz stock one, that will help some, but that extra ram will help a lot. I am running a x1550 in mine, i liked my 9250 better due to the 128bit, and easy overclocking, i wish they made a 9250 with DDR2 (just kidding) but these new PCI cards need 128bit, this 64bit business absolutely kills them more than just being PCI. I will probabely get another 9400GT 1gb, i used to have one for a friends PC, it OC'd easy, and it was good in games.

Seaner71

PS. Whoever said above never go above 1gb of Vram on PCI is wrong, the 9400GT my friend had was using all of its mem, and it actually helped alot to turn the resolution up more on games, most of the time the settings were still low to medium, but defintly playtable at 35-50FPS in most games we tried.

 

[jives11]

Nothing special

Hi, I didn't do anything special to get the Dimension 2350 to see 2Gb. The BIOS is the original A01, I never got around to upgrading it, and to be honest was always a bit nervous, as I had my PCI graphics as the primary. The memory I used was standard 184-pin DIMM DDR2700. My Dimension is the 2.6Ghz P4 variant

 

[teklord]

...but these new PCI cards need 128bit, this 64bit business absolutely kills them more than just being PCI. I will probabely get another 9400GT 1gb, i used to have one for a friends PC, it OC'd easy, and it was good in games.

Seaner71

PS. Whoever said above never go above 1gb of Vram on PCI is wrong, the 9400GT my friend had was using all of its mem, and it actually helped alot to turn the resolution up more on games, most of the time the settings were still low to medium, but defintly playtable at 35-50FPS in most games we tried.

Great post, I am glad someone is verifying that the extra RAM on the 9400GT is not a waste and actually does affect performance. PCI needs all the help it can get, so when the gig of RAM is proving to be working, then I say keep it coming and hopefully with DDR3 next time.

64-bit cards on PCI bus type is brutal. PCI doesn't need anything at all to handicap it and the power of 64-bit cards is generally half of it's 128-bit equivalent. Big difference between a 8400GS PCI (64-bit) and a 8500GT PCI (128-bit) and since prices have come down a lot with the release of the 9400GT, I say don't settle for less than a 8500GT. Just wish they would release the 9500GT because I don't want to settle for the 9400GT while I find a way to get a better rig.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

I am running a x1550 in mine, i liked my 9250 better due to the 128bit, and easy overclocking, i wish they made a 9250 with DDR2 (just kidding) but these new PCI cards need 128bit, this 64bit business absolutely kills them more than just being PCI. I will probabely get another 9400GT 1gb, i used to have one for a friends PC, it OC'd easy, and it was good in games.

Designing a modern 128bit PCI card would be a waste because the increased bandwidth that 128bit would bring about would be wasted on the 133MB/s PCI bus. The 64-bit 9250 likely performs very similar to yours. Would 128-bit be nice to have if it were the same price? Sure, but it doesn't warrant a sizeable increase in price.

PS. Whoever said above never go above 1gb of Vram on PCI is wrong, the 9400GT my friend had was using all of its mem, and it actually helped alot to turn the resolution up more on games, most of the time the settings were still low to medium, but defintly playtable at 35-50FPS in most games we tried.

Really? Did you test a 512 or 256MB version of the same card right before or after? Probably not. So how do you know its "using all its mem"? If you had tested it with a control (a cornerstone of experimentation) I'd be willing to bet the results would be the same if not minuscule in difference. All true experimentation I've seen shows that that much extra memory only comes in to play in high-end games at very high resolutions, and this is on the high-end of cards. With a 94/9500 GT, you're getting into the GPU's limitations before you reach any level of antialiasing or resolution where extra memory would matter.

But its your money, go ahead and spend almost double for memory that all or the majority of the time will be of no use.

 

[Seaner71]

128bit has nothing to do with the PCI

The PCI slot is 133mb/s no matter what, but 128bit/64bit is the bitrate between your GPu and Mem on the card, it doesn't really affect the PCI slot much, i have tested both the 128 bit and 64 bit 9250 and my 128bit smoked the 64bit. Also i did test both 9400GT's, i bought the 1gb version and my cousing bought the 512mb before me. Mine ran at high resolution better, and averaged about 15 to 25 FPS more, so again your wrong. At leaast i test things before i say it

 

[Tha General]

If you have the 9400gt pci , can you post your gpu-z shot?

I am buying the albatron 8500gt or 8600gt or 9400gt or 9500gt pci card early next month, depending on what i find first. I really want one of those albatron cards tho, their design looks cool

 

[Seaner71]

No GPUz shot for while

The system i was using the 9400GT on has been gone now for almost 3 weeks, i was upgrading my cousin's friendss PC, he has a Dimension 3000(PCI only) SO i got him the best, but my cousin also has a 300 and had less money so he bought the 512mb version, they both came on same day, and i bech marked them, i should hav taken a screen shot. I am about $20 away from getting my new one for this board, should have it in a week or two, i will post one then. I fyou would like i can post my 9250 and x1550 if you want to see them, most of you don't seem to use those anymore.

 

[Tha General]

Oh its cool. I am buying a new rig um tomorrow or early next week, but i will also be picking up a new video card for it early to mid next month, i may end up buying that Jaton 1GB/128bit 9500gt PCI card. Its the only 9500gt version around, so it will make sense to buy it.

 

[Seaner71]

I wouldn't get the 9500GT

Oh its cool. I am buying a new rig um tomorrow or early next week, but i will also be picking up a new video card for it early to mid next month, i may end up buying that Jaton 1GB/128bit 9500gt PCI card. Its the only 9500gt version around, so it will make sense to buy it.

Your paying $60 for 8 more shader processors, believe me if you have been getting by on 64bit 8400GS cards and the 64bit HD2400, the 1gb Sparkle 9400GT will blow your mind, and i hope it will help your new sytem as much as it helped my friends, and as much as i hope it helps mine, i would wait and see what sparkle does, i might email them tyo see if they will ever release the 9500GT in the US.

Ohh heres the x1550 screen shot, for some reason, i belive power supply the stock Memory Bandwith is at 3.1gb/s, but in my other PC it ran at the standard 6.3gb/s, i will c what a new PSU will do :

No Overclock

Overclock to heck on the memory

Haha 90nm, so old, but that 9400GT should be running like 65nm if i remeber right and just for fun here maybe the 9250 (may not work)

SO ther you go, i will post my 9400GT when i get it, any other Screen shots would be cool to see, exspecially Genrals array of PCI cards

 

[Seaner71]

Yeah 9250 didn't work ohh well

 

[Tha General]

Check out the stats for the Jaton 9500GT 1GB with GGDR3 Memory
http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-9500-GT-PCI-card-610.html
WOW, thats clearly the fastest card out for PCI

Your paying $60 for 8 more shader processors, believe me if you have been getting by on 64bit 8400GS cards and the 64bit HD2400, the 1gb Sparkle 9400GT will blow your mind, and i hope it will help your new sytem as much as it helped my friends, and as much as i hope it helps mine, i would wait and see what sparkle does, i might email them tyo see if they will ever release the 9500GT in the US.

I don't know how much the Jaton 9500gt cost, i have to wait and see. But most likely i will buy the 9500gt.

No Overclock
http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/09/04/17/9tn.png

Overclock to heck on the memory
http://gpuz.techpowerup.com/09/04/17/aw8.png

If that is the x1550 pci, those stats are wrong. This is the correct stats:

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=506&card2=

Something is wrong with your card.

 

[Seaner71]

it's my PSU

Check out the stats for the Jaton 9500GT 1GB with GGDR3 Memory
http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-9500-GT-PCI-card-610.html
WOW, thats clearly the fastest card out for PCI



I don't know how much the Jaton 9500gt cost, i have to wait and see. But most likely i will buy the 9500gt.



If that is the x1550 pci, those stats are wrong. This is the correct stats:

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=506&card2=

Something is wrong with your card.

Your Stats are also off, your 9500GT that you get from Jaton only has DDR2 max of 800mhz mem probabely. I know that my cstats are wrong, i ised it on my power efficent Compaq Duak core (uses less power then my older P4 sytem) Both are running on 250watt PSU, i need like a 350watt PSU or 400watt, this little bugger is power hungry, but thats some high clocks for PCI 550mhz with 800mhz RAM, until i OC's it then it was 920mhz RAM. I am buying a new PSU anyway for the 9400GT cause it also wants a 350watt PSU, only the really old cards don't want power. I can get 6.3gb?s on that sustem but i have to only use 1 IDE device, and unplug all my unimportant fans and lights. With your 9500GT your still only getting 8 or 16 more shader processors for $60!!! thats a lot. but no matter what you do the 9400GT or 9500Gt will blow the socks on what you have sitting around right now.

 

[Seaner71]

ohh yeah the Jaton is $140 supposedly, but Newegg will prob sell it for like 120 or 110 or maybe less

 

[Tha General]

I was saying the x1550 stats seem to be incorrect, because the bandwidth is suppose to be 12.8GB, and the memory at 450.

Nevertheless, um i don't believe the stats on your gpu has anything to do with your psu. I am using a 90watts PSU for a 350watts card. aLSO about the 9500gt being inaccuate, well i don't know what the real stats are for the 9500gt, just have to wait and see. I was just posting the link from gpu-review.

peace