The shift to 4K is happening much faster than the move to HD did

[p51d007]

We live in a throwaway world and, a keep up with the Jones' world.
When you buy the hottest gadget, show it off to your friends, neighbors
etc, you are king of the pathetic hill, only to be outdone by another person
5-6 months later, which requires you to go out and waste another ton of
money to outdo everyone else.
Considering the GARBAGE on television today, or streamed, that amount of
money to me, is wasted on all of this 2k 4k crap.

 

[mantissteam]

Are you kidding me?
its going at an incredibly slow pace
I have been sitting here waiting for a proper 4K monitor for years
4K is still not here at the right price or even the perfect technology level yet

 

[trparky]

Um... here's an awesome idea! How about we fix what is wrong with HDTV (720/1080) before we go onto 4K? Wow, what a freakin' concept! Why didn't we think about that!?

I dare you, turn on your TV and look at something on TV. It doesn't matter who your TV provider is; it could DirecTV, Dish Network, TWC, uVerse, Charter, or Comcast. I bet you're asking what all of those companies have in common.

I'll give you a hint... they all compress the crap out of their so-called "HDTV" to the point where we can't even call it HDTV anymore!

Yes, that's right... we can't even call what we receive from most of our pay-TV providers HDTV since more often than not they so horribly over-compress their video feeds that it looks like a muddy mess whenever you get a whole lot of action on the screen. Got confetti on the screen? All you're going to see is a macroblock-filled mess! Got a scene with a whole lot of dark background colors? Prepare to see crushed blacks and what I often refer to as "dancing black blocks". That's because most providers still don't provide enough bandwidth for a proper HDTV feed.

Most video encoding experts agree that in order to provide a superb HDTV video feed you need at the very least 12 to 15 Mbps using h.264 (preferably closer to 15 Mbps). Guess what most providers compress to? Somewhere in the ball park of 8 Mbps, sometimes even less than that. Yeah... that's why your HDTV feed looks like crap!

So considering the fact that we still can't get a proper HDTV feed, how do you think we're going to be able to do 4K TV which requires almost four to five times the bandwidth that a properly encoded HDTV feed requires? That's right... WE CAN'T!

All this talk about 4K makes me want to scream! I just want a properly encoded HDTV feed but I can't even get that!

Want to see what HDTV is really supposed to look like? Find yourself a copy of the Avatar movie on Blu-Ray and prepare to have your mind blown. The Avatar Blu-Ray is the gold standard when it comes to video encoding on Blu-Ray. It's the Blu-Ray that every other Blu-Ray is measured up against and repeatedly fail. Once you see what HDTV is really supposed to look like you're going to be disappointed as all hell when you turn on your pay-TV provider's "HDTV" feed.

 

[Axle Grease]

The shift to 4k displays above 60Hz isn't happening at all in the industry.

 

[Fobus]

Um... here's an awesome idea! How about we fix what is wrong with HDTV (720/1080) before we go onto 4K? Wow, what a freakin' concept! Why didn't we think about that!?

I dare you, turn on your TV and look at something on TV. It doesn't matter who your TV provider is; it could DirecTV, Dish Network, TWC, uVerse, Charter, or Comcast. I bet you're asking what all of those companies have in common.

I'll give you a hint... they all compress the crap out of their so-called "HDTV" to the point where we can't even call it HDTV anymore!

Yes, that's right... we can't even call what we receive from most of our pay-TV providers HDTV since more often than not they so horribly over-compress their video feeds that it looks like a muddy mess whenever you get a whole lot of action on the screen. Got confetti on the screen? All you're going to see is a macroblock-filled mess! Got a scene with a whole lot of dark background colors? Prepare to see crushed blacks and what I often refer to as "dancing black blocks". That's because most providers still don't provide enough bandwidth for a proper HDTV feed.

Most video encoding experts agree that in order to provide a superb HDTV video feed you need at the very least 12 to 15 Mbps using h.264 (preferably closer to 15 Mbps). Guess what most providers compress to? Somewhere in the ball park of 8 Mbps, sometimes even less than that. Yeah... that's why your HDTV feed looks like crap!

So considering the fact that we still can't get a proper HDTV feed, how do you think we're going to be able to do 4K TV which requires almost four to five times the bandwidth that a properly encoded HDTV feed requires? That's right... WE CAN'T!

All this talk about 4K makes me want to scream! I just want a properly encoded HDTV feed but I can't even get that!

Want to see what HDTV is really supposed to look like? Find yourself a copy of the Avatar movie on Blu-Ray and prepare to have your mind blown. The Avatar Blu-Ray is the gold standard when it comes to video encoding on Blu-Ray. It's the Blu-Ray that every other Blu-Ray is measured up against and repeatedly fail. Once you see what HDTV is really supposed to look like you're going to be disappointed as all hell when you turn on your pay-TV provider's "HDTV" feed.

The shift to 4K will force TV providers to improve bandwidth, so even if 4K compression might hurt 4K, there should be more than enough for regular HDTV. With new standard comes better compression and modulation technologies.

 

[amstech]

I paid the usual Sony Tax for a 2015 Sony XBR 4K HDR wide color gamut TV and with no regrets at all it has the usual superlative Sony color, picture quality and Sony XBR build quality and presumably the usual XBR durability I've become accustomed to with Sony XBR sets .

Sony is nothing special for HDTV's, constant reviews show your paying for the brand but the quality is no better then LG or Vizio.

 

[DaveBG]

I have 4k TV, 4k PC monitor and 4k camera. Soon hope to be getting 4k mobile phone. I hate the "HD" resolution since it is not nearly high definition...

 

[Techtree101]

1080p: "Wow! You can see the individual blades of grass!"

4K: "Wait, is that [actress name]? I thought she was prettier..."

One of my favorite TV shows is Star Trek, and I noticed this extensively when it was remastered just in HD. You could see the bridge's carpet ripped strands, and other defective materials .

All-in-all, 4K is a winner, if done properly for future productions.

 

[slamscaper]

What surprises me here is that you are still paying for cable! And you seem to intend on staying with it! WOW! I thought people were done paying for ads when there are so many on-demand offers available. I'm assuming there is a logical explanation for this...

How long has it been since you cut the cord? The newest digital cable boxes like Comcast's X1 platform are rather impressive. I cut the cord for a while, but when I went back to digital cable and was upgraded from the old school Motorola DCT boxes ( the ones with the ancient, ugly UI's and 1080i max output) to the modern X1, I was pleasantly surprised by how nice it is. Even the remote is very high quality, with voice search capabilities that actually work great (not just a gimmick).

I never watch ads. I DVR every show I like with ads and then skip them, but plenty of the stuff I watch is on premium channels with no ads. There's also TONS of ON DEMAND content available with Comcast's X1. Honestly, I think the X1 is much better than using Netflix and Hulu. I'm more of a movie buff than I am with shows. Netflix is great if you're into shows but I find their movie selection terrible. The new X1 box is nice. It has a large capacity SSD and also backs everything up to the cloud periodically, plus I can stream live TV to any of my devices just by firing up the Xfinity app on my phone. It'll record up to six channels at once. All in all it's worth the money IMO. What I myself do is get on a promotional deal for a year, then whenever the promotion ends I downgrade my digital package, wait a week and upgrade again and get another promotion. It's funny how they keep letting me do this, but it keeps my bill WAY under the normal rates. Still higher than cord cutters but I get all the nice options of the X1, including all that ON DEMAND content they have (they also offer some web content). Cable may not be worth it in some areas, but where I am I believe it is. I had Netflix and Hulu for a while but once I watched all the original shows I liked, I just got bored with them. Since then Netflix added some original shows that I hear are pretty good though.

 

[slamscaper]

I'm more interested in OLED and HDR. I want better colors and deeper blacks, not higher definition crap.

Totally agree here. OLED is so much more impressive than simply a higher resolution LCD. With OLED you get true blacks, better viewing angles, better color uniformity, and the response time is an order of magnitude faster. OLED comes closest to the image quality offered by high-quality CRT's, but sports a nice sleek profile (and can even be printed on a substrate as thin as paper). I can't wait to see a 50 inch+ OLED screen at a reasonable price! I'd take a reasonably sized 1080p OLED over any 4K LCD. No question about that.

It's only a matter of time before OLED replaces LCD (including ALL current LCD tech like IPS, PVA, MVA, PLS, ect..). OLED displays have now finally started to destroy the best LCD displays in the smartphone market, as they are calling Samsung's last few AMOLED displays the best ever tested. I'm actually surprised that they've been able to take LCD tech as far as they have, but it's come about as far as it can for the most part.

 

[IAMTHESTIG]

How long has it been since you cut the cord? The newest digital cable boxes like Comcast's X1 platform are rather impressive. I cut the cord for a while, but when I went back to digital cable and was upgraded from the old school Motorola DCT boxes ( the ones with the ancient, ugly UI's and 1080i max output) to the modern X1, I was pleasantly surprised by how nice it is. Even the remote is very high quality, with voice search capabilities that actually work great (not just a gimmick).

I never watch ads. I DVR every show I like with ads and then skip them, but plenty of the stuff I watch is on premium channels with no ads. There's also TONS of ON DEMAND content available with Comcast's X1. Honestly, I think the X1 is much better than using Netflix and Hulu. I'm more of a movie buff than I am with shows. Netflix is great if you're into shows but I find their movie selection terrible. The new X1 box is nice. It has a large capacity SSD and also backs everything up to the cloud periodically, plus I can stream live TV to any of my devices just by firing up the Xfinity app on my phone. It'll record up to six channels at once. All in all it's worth the money IMO. What I myself do is get on a promotional deal for a year, then whenever the promotion ends I downgrade my digital package, wait a week and upgrade again and get another promotion. It's funny how they keep letting me do this, but it keeps my bill WAY under the normal rates. Still higher than cord cutters but I get all the nice options of the X1, including all that ON DEMAND content they have (they also offer some web content). Cable may not be worth it in some areas, but where I am I believe it is. I had Netflix and Hulu for a while but once I watched all the original shows I liked, I just got bored with them. Since then Netflix added some original shows that I hear are pretty good though.

It has probably been almost 10 years, and I'm happy. It sounds like you are happy with what you have and are willing to skip those ads when you record... but I'm not willing to skip ads, I don't want them. Ever. I don't think there are very many people though that are dedicated to their experience as you are. The few people I know who still have cable or dish TV absolutely hate it yet are still paying for it. Must be something they like... perhaps like you but not quite on the same level.

 

[Ascaris]

Moving to 4k? I'm still on 480i!

 

[wiyosaya]

Totally agree here. OLED is so much more impressive than simply a higher resolution LCD. With OLED you get true blacks, better viewing angles, better color uniformity, and the response time is an order of magnitude faster. OLED comes closest to the image quality offered by high-quality CRT's, but sports a nice sleek profile (and can even be printed on a substrate as thin as paper). I can't wait to see a 50 inch+ OLED screen at a reasonable price! I'd take a reasonably sized 1080p OLED over any 4K LCD. No question about that.

It's only a matter of time before OLED replaces LCD (including ALL current LCD tech like IPS, PVA, MVA, PLS, ect..). OLED displays have now finally started to destroy the best LCD displays in the smartphone market, as they are calling Samsung's last few AMOLED displays the best ever tested. I'm actually surprised that they've been able to take LCD tech as far as they have, but it's come about as far as it can for the most part.

Actually, is is LG that is making those highly rated OLED TVs, anyway, but I am totally on board with you.

 

[Kotters]

People still watch TV? 4K is important for display resolutions. Not broadcast or pay TV.

 

[wiyosaya]

How long has it been since you cut the cord?

Personally, I cut the Dish Network cord about 2.5 years ago in favor of an HTPC. I was paying almost $85/mo (internet not included), now, I am paying $14/mo (internet also not included). The HTPC has more than paid for itself at this point.

I'll never go back. I get far more and far better content, programming quality wise, now at a far cheaper price. I must be part of the target market of Netflix because I find so much stuff on there that I want to watch, but if I watched all of it, I would be spending 24/7 in front of the screen.

I agree that Netflix is compressed, Blu-ray is far better. Much of what I watch on Netflix is not something that I would want or need to own a hard copy of, so, Netflix is better than nothing, though far from the best.

I'm waiting until 65" OLED TVs fall below $1,000 before I will jump into 4K/HDR, and I hope someone will bring out a 4K UHD Blu-ray solution for the PC. As I see it, 4K UHD Blu-ray is priced much higher than I would like.

As well, I will be overjoyed when ATSC 3.0 comes to OTA. I've said it before, but ATSC 3.0 is what ATSC 1.0 should have been. ATSC 1.0 for OTA is highly dependent on the viewers location because it is basically a digital solution imposed on an analog scheme that makes it highly susceptible to multipath reception problems that kill the signal. Some places get upwards of 70 or more channels OTA with ATSC 1.0, and in reception areas like mine, we get nowhere near that many though we should get easily that many. However, once ATSC 3.0 is rolled out, even reception areas like mine should get far more OTA channels.

 

[Fbarnett]

Got myself this Samsung UE28590 4k monitor for an insane 160 Euro. It's awesome, moving back to my son's 1920X1080 display I find even text blurry, not to mention pictures or video. All I need now is a better GPU, my 970 is working hard, but lowering the details to medium I was able to finish ROTR without any issues.

Also have a 4k TV which cost like 450 Euro. 4k material is still rare, but that's about to change in the next couple of years.

In the US if your kids have crappier electronics that you they will file a lawsuit against you

 

[tomkaten]

Lmao !!

 

[amstech]

I have 4k TV, 4k PC monitor and 4k camera. Soon hope to be getting 4k mobile phone. I hate the "HD" resolution since it is not nearly high definition...

4K is just a resolution that is common place and easy to run.
The issue is the source material, just like blu-rays, most 4K content is upscaled.

 

[NahNood]

1080p: "Wow! You can see the individual blades of grass!"

4K: "Wait, is that [actress name]? I thought she was prettier..."

Youngins!

Cable tv: Wow, no more antenna mess!
Digital cable: Woah, no more picture fuzz!
1080p: Damn, people are quite ugly now!
4K: Why? lol

 

[Raoul Duke]

I think it's because of the way manufacturer's are pumping out the 'new and improved' in a way they certainly didn't do earlier

 

[slamscaper]

Actually, is is LG that is making those highly rated OLED TVs, anyway, but I am totally on board with you.

I was referring to Samsung's own AMOLED displays they use on their flagship smartphones, like the Galaxy Note 5 that I own. Samsung is at the cutting edge with OLED tech, even though they haven't put out any TV's yet. I'm sure when they do, they will have the upper hand against LG because they have been working with OLED far longer.

 

[slamscaper]

It has probably been almost 10 years, and I'm happy. It sounds like you are happy with what you have and are willing to skip those ads when you record... but I'm not willing to skip ads, I don't want them. Ever. I don't think there are very many people though that are dedicated to their experience as you are. The few people I know who still have cable or dish TV absolutely hate it yet are still paying for it. Must be something they like... perhaps like you but not quite on the same level.

Yeah if I hated it I would get rid of it without hesitation. But man... Having the ability to record 6 shows at once while watching another one, plus the fact that I can watch live TV ANYWHERE on my mobile devices (not to mention access my DVR recordings remotely as well, including scheduling them) is something I find beyond useful. To me it's worth the extra money now. Of course when my promotion ends in a year and my triple play (cable, phone, HSI @ 150 Mb/s) cost goes up from an even $150 a month I will downgrade and wait for another promotion. $150 may seem like a lot, but that's for everything plus a few premium channels like HBO and Starz. I should note that I'm also on one of their best internet services, which is called Blast and I get 180 Mb/s which is plenty fast (due to my location I get a little better than advertised speeds).

 

[tomkaten]

You get home from your 9 to 5 job, you read some e-mails, maybe browse a couple of sites and play a game, watch some news, so people don't ask you the next day which rock have you been hiding under... Boom, there's your day. Where do you fit all that TV watching, did America invent the 32 hour day ? Or sleepless humans ?

 

[slamscaper]

So literally starting last week you can now access Netflix directly from Comcast's X1 cable box. Now they did have some other apps on there capable of accessing web content but I never thought I'd see the day where they would decide to directly support Netflix. I guess they realized that working against Netflix and other digital content delivery systems wasn't the way to go. Netflix is here to stay and it behooves Comcast to have people accessing it through their cable boxes rather than anywhere else. It's a good move on their part I must say.

 

[bluto 2050]

Hopefully The Comcast system will give SDR 4K and maybe 4K HDR adequate bandwidth at least what Netflix provides with thier 4K encodes or just pass them along on IPTV like I believe they do unmolested instead of 4K lite like the color stripped and soft HD lite they usually have .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Lite


Netflix 1080p and 4K straight from them are real decent if your ISP is a direct connect partner like Comcast or ATT so if Comcast sends it out as an unmolested Netflix IPTV signal with an IPTV bridge to or in thier STB /DVR or to the TV via Ethernet or COAX from the IPTV modem bridge like DirecTV and not as a compressed cable channel re transmission it should be just fine as far as IPTV 4K goes .

FWIW outside of over the air or maybe Verizon Fios FTTH IMO ATT/DirecTV has the best HDTV picture . I've used Comcast and Dish its no contest .




My 55" 2015 4K HDR Sony XBR TV in here looks significantly better on 720p,1080p,4KSDR or 4K HDR than my still decent 2013 1080p SDR Sony TV it replaces in here .

OTOH my 1080p Samsung PN64f8500 Plasma out front makes better color than any regular SDR LCD TV and maybe some 4K HDR LCD TV's as well it's not going anywhere .

A big part of all that aside from the usual superb Sony XBR color and up-scaling to 4K is the wide Color gamut Triluminous panel even on SDR HDTV 4:2:0 content and on a 4:2:0 480p DVD or 1080p Blue ray . The Samsung SUHD sets are real decent like all that as well .

A conventional LCD LED back light lacks the light spectrum for wide color gamuts or decent primary's and a lot of colors ,they can not get Fire Engine Red or Coca Cola Red or many other colors or importantly green right .


Samsung and Sony HDR TV 'S and processing are much closer to decent bt 2020 10 bit color than a conventional 8 bit bt709 LCD TV and the best of them like the new Sony XBR 4K HDR Z9D LCD sets are getting real close to OLED colors but are much brighter than OLED .