TechSpot

Thermal Electrical cooling for pc

By Nohrum137
Jul 21, 2007
  1. I have an Antec p150 cpu tower with a nividia 7950gt graphics card
    samsung hd going at 7.6k rpm and a gig of corceir ram *yes i know i spelled it wrong*. A Asus M2N-E mobo with a amd dual core 2.2 ghrtz with a audigy xi-fi non gaming edition sound card.
    And i was wondering if a thermal electrical system is possible to install in my computer cause it is always warm and my room becomes a sauna and it gets rather vexing.
     
  2. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,573   +9

    Yeah, you spelt Corsair wrong. No matter.

    This is where me and supersmashbrada gets into a few arguments :D

    My POV is that TECs less than 150W is pretty much useless because thats about how much heat the processor puts out PLUS inefficiencies of the TEC itself. Unfortunately, almost all TEC cooling solutions have TECs below that amount.

    This is all good, but if for some particular reason your CPU is constantly at 100% utilization, you'll see that their performance starts faltering. Overclocking is also not recommended because then you'd need a much bigger TEC to compete against high-end watercooling systems (which is STILL much cheaper than TEC systems).

    I personally wouldn't recommend any TEC set which includes a TEC lower than 150W, and if I really wanted a TEC cooling solution, I'd probably just wire up a 300W TEC under a good waterblock. Unfortunately, you'd need a special circuit board to control that TEC, and thats where it gets complicated.

    However, if you're NOT using something thats insanely hot (P4s for example), nor overclocking, or you just got money to burn, TECs will be a good choice, as they cool much better below a particular heat output. Its just not a good choice for overclocking enthusiasts.
     
  3. Nohrum137

    Nohrum137 TS Rookie Topic Starter

    Alright that really helped me with this situation. Thanks for the time.
     
  4. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,083

    You probably wont get any performance increase with just a peltier under a HSF. Your performance may actually decrease.

    As CMH said, the best way to do it would be to cool the warm side of the peltier with a waterblock. This way the heat is immediatly displaced from the coldplate and then cool through the systems radiator.

    You would need an 300+ W Aux Psu With a 12 V rail of 30+ amps to run a 300W peltier sufficiently.

    You couldn't really thermally cool your whole computer, but rather specific parts. Cooling your computer (like a thermoelectric fridge) would lead to serious condinsation issues.

    With thermoelectric cooling, you can cool any specific part, but remember because heat is contributed evenly through the conductor it produces as much heat as it does cool. One junction cools off while the other heats up.

    Basically what this means is it won't cool your computer (case) or room down, rather just specific parts.

    If you do decide to do a thermoelectric water cooling system, remember to put the cpu Block before the radiator. You do not want hot water running through the GPU block..or any other components.
     
  5. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,573   +9

    Testing has shown that specific placement of waterblocks and radiators change water temps by 2C at most, with alot of tests showing no change at all.

    What this means is that there is minimal difference in temps linking your watercooling like this:
    cpu-gpu-radiator OR
    cpu-radiator-gpu

    As with stuffing your whole PC into a refrigerator, this shouldn't cause condensation issues, ASSUMING you don't open and close the refrigerator. And if you're that worried about condensation when cooling your computer this way, just stuff in a bag of that stuff that absorbs water.... can't remember what they're called. If there's no moisture in the air, it can't condense anywhere.

    It is possible to use aircooling with peltiers, but bear in mind that peltiers work by pumping heat away from one side to the other. If you can't move that heat from the hot side, the cold side wouldn't get very cold. In peltiers, they always have a deltaC reading, which is the maximum difference in temperature between the hot and cold side. Which means, if the peltier has a deltaC of 20C, and your hot side is 80C, your cold side would be at least 60C. So its in your best interest to keep the hot side cool (which can be done with YET another peltier, which is stronger than the first peltier, and keep stacking them).

    But yes, generally huge peltiers take up huge amounts of electricity, so a secondary PSU, or a huge PSU to start with would be good.


    Even though your room is pretty hot, I reckon a good watercooling system would be a much cheaper alternative (in terms of direct costs and running costs) to TECs, and you wouldn't really see much of a difference. The key word is GOOD watercooling system, so stay away from cheap systems from thermaltake and the like. My personal favourite is the Swiftech set, which is among the best, but there are good waterblocks from DangerDen as well (I don't think DD does complete WC sets).

    If you're looking for budget watercooling, I'd recommend a GOOD aircooling system instead, since those would perform as well as cheap watercooling systems, with less risks and yet lower direct and running costs. At the moment, I'd favor the Tuniq Tower, since its among the best out there, yet reasonably priced, compared to my Tt Ultra-120, which is more expensive since you'd have to fork out money for your own fan. Having played around with both, I must say any performance difference is minimal.
     
  6. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,083

    I was talking about a water cooling system with a peltier under a waterblock. I guarantee you a 300 W peltier is going to raise the water temps more then 2 degrees.

    As far as the whole refrigiration thing..Nohrum137, can you please explain better exactly what you are trying to do. Are you essentially trying to make your computer into a refrigirator, (via thermoelectricity) or rather refrigirate your pc via a thermoelectric fridge?

    With the money you spend doing that you should just buy central air for your house, or vapor compress your cpu.
     
  7. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,573   +9

    Yeah... I was talking about a basic WC system, which doesn't have a peltier in it. But even then, on a WC system with enough water flow, it shouldn't matter. I doubt you'd see 10C hotter watter on the other side of a TEC-ed waterblock.

    Yeah, I don't suggest to anyone to start stacking TECs... its just a possibility.
     
  8. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Posts: 1,083

    Yeah thats true it really just depends on what kind of radiator you have at that point.
     
  9. Cinders

    Cinders TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,313   +12

    Even if you do go through the expense of a tec and a good water cooling system you may not like the CPU temps you get without first cooling the room your computer is in. If your room temp is twenty degrees above normal then the best the above will do is twenty degrees above normal. I just ordered this for my computer:

    Thermochill PA120.2 radiator
    D-tec Fuzion waterblock
    Laing DDC pump w/ Petra'sTech DDCT-01s Top Combo
    Various Danger Den odds and ends to complete the loop

    When my room temp is around 25C, I'll guess that the loop will bring my CPU temps down to around 35C at full blast. If my room temp is around 35C then the CPU temp will be around 45C at full blast.

    If I were to add a 226W tec to the loop then my CPU temp might be 10C with the room cooled and the CPU at full blast. The tec would also help heat the room but my air conditioning would take care of that. Adding the tec in a non air conditioned room would make the room even hotter and your situation even worse.

    There are many problems that will come to you when you use a tec. You have to insulate the tech from the outside air or you'll face condensation problems. High wattage tecs use many amps of current. Your best bet would be to use a dedicated tec power source costing and extra $100.00 or so. You will waste much electricty powering a tec. You will have to insulate the underside of the motherboard to keep frost from forming while idle.


    There are computer cases that are tec cooled. They drop the internal case temp about ten degrees Celcius or Fahrenheit I don't remember. They do warm the air outside the case so I don't know if you're interested or not.
    I think the best solution for your situation would be to air condition the room you're in.
     
  10. boyd117

    boyd117 TS Rookie Posts: 29

    I have a wierd thougt not sure if it makes any sence but what if you were to hook up an air conditioner right to the inside of the pc case, what would happen?
     
  11. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 4,265   +42

    As CMH stated we get into a fude about this sometimes. Although my temps are low, its because my ambient temp is lower than normal room temp(70-75F) I'm using a freezone TEC by coolit. I'd admit is good, but I'd recommend it for people who dont want to overclock. Its a lower power TEC and has its uses.

    I recommend it to you if you want something that wont take up a lot of space. But I'm currently looking at swiftec's TEC cooler. I'll come out of pocket 500usd, but its a high powered TEC and frankly I want to get higher overclocks, just a personal thing mostly.

    My airconditioner is behind my pc. When I have it running I can get 5C on my quad with the freezone on high, can't hear it since the airconditioner is louder than the TEC, lol. Well, there it is.
     
     
  12. boyd117

    boyd117 TS Rookie Posts: 29

    hahaha thats awsome, but like have you ever thought of running a vent from the a/c to the front of the case where the fan can pull in the cold air? Myself I have central air which always keeps my whole house cool, I live up north so its around 17c in the winter and 20c in the summer inside my house, is central air a big help to keeping your pc cool?
     
  13. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 4,265   +42

    I thought about it, but I dont want my room looking like a hydrogen plant. I did remove 3 of the pci slot covers in the back, the air goes in and my fans push it up out of the exhaust fans at the top of my fans. Works great! I do also have a duct from the exhaut of my freezone leading to a makeshift vent out of my window so that the hotair isnt circulated in my room. I'll take a pic of it and post it in my gallery.
     
  14. boyd117

    boyd117 TS Rookie Posts: 29

    right on looking forward to that. Would you get condensation inside the vent if it were leading outside?
     
  15. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 4,265   +42

    Its not a problem. I thought about that. That's why the vent is going down from the pc instead of going up. I dont want water dripping back into the fan...right?
     
  16. boyd117

    boyd117 TS Rookie Posts: 29

    That would not be good, the only time you would even get condenstion would be when the pc is off since the heat would prevent it. But even if theres no water getting in there will always be the threat of moisture which can do a good amount of damage?
     
  17. LinkedKube

    LinkedKube TechSpot Project Baby Posts: 4,265   +42

    yeah that's electricity 101, water+negative+positive charge=death.
     
  18. CMH

    CMH TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 2,573   +9

    I don't know why but I'm VERY sceptical about 45W TECs being able to bring overclocked quad cores below ambient. The science behind it doesn't add up at all (unless you're talking idle temps...)

    Either way, I think we have already shown that TECs can bring CPU temps below ambient, so this sentence doesn't really make any sense....
    As long as we keep this fude friendly, ita okay :D
     
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