Weekend Open Forum: Traitor, criminal, whistleblower, or hero - Classified leaks and their leakers

[Guest]

Oh look, Ichu12 didn't understand the previous post!!

 

[TheBigFatClown]

Oh look, Ichu12 didn't understand the previous post!!

He's just looking for some love. *TheBigFatClown gives Ichu12 a big fat greasy sloppy bear hug*

 

[Ranger12]

I am so glad you mentioned the 'law of the land' in your post. How much do you value your "constitutional" rights as an American citizen, specifically, the 4th right of the United States Constitution? I am guessing also that you would have all illegal aliens in the United States deported immediately(if you were President) since, right now, according to current laws, they are here "illegally". Yes?



You want Edward Snowden prosecuted for breaking the law. I am guessing you want the same thing for "other" people who break the law. So yes, the damage caused by what a criminal does needs to be assessed as accurately as possible to determine proper punishments. We can't punish Edward Snowden for his actions without establishing a direct link between his actions and the damages caused. Your statement that 'we don't know if it hurt anyone' is a little hard to swallow. If damages can't be established within a 'reasonable' timeframe then it's probably safe to say there arent any. If someone has verifiable proof of damages let them come forward and make the case.

There are plenty of crimes that don't require any damage to be done in order for prosecution so I do not believe a measurement of damage should be a deciding factor as to whether or not he held liable for breaking the law.

As far as illegal immigration goes...what a mess.

 

[Pan Wah]

Manning brought many hours of pleasure and laughter to millions, especially in the sixties and seventies. Although he fell out of favor in the eighties, in part due to the often racial/racist content of his material, he was an entertainer, and as such should not be vilified, and certainly not labelled a traitor.

LMFAO! To clarify for younger & non-British readers, I think Guest refers to Bernard Manning, and is being a very naughty poster....

 

[Guest]

Who the hell are you talking about certainly not the same young manning that leaked info to WikiLeaks in 2010. Not sure if he was even alive in the sixties

 

[Pan Wah]

Who the hell are you talking about certainly not the same young manning that leaked info to WikiLeaks in 2010. Not sure if he was even alive in the sixties

It says who in the previous message, try reading it.

 

[miguel11]

HEROES!!! The crooks, lairs and criminals are in the US Government.

 

[Darth Shiv]

Some parts of the govt think they have a blank cheque to do whatever they want with our freedom and rights. That's why we *need* whistleblowers. The normal channels don't work here. There is a wall of bs policy that lets them legally do unethical things.

 

[Guest]

Some parts of the govt think they have a blank cheque to do whatever they want with our freedom and rights. That's why we *need* whistleblowers. The normal channels don't work here. There is a wall of bs policy that lets them legally do unethical things.

Which parts of which government think that? I think you may have made that up....

 

[fimbles]

I reserve my judgement, As I doubt any of the facts printed in the press are actually facts.

 

[miguel11]

Some people here, US Government apologist, are claiming that these heroes are traitors because they broke the law. The question they should be asking is, who made those laws and who benefit from those laws? Martin Luther King Jr once said that when you have found a law that is unfair and unjust you have the moral obligation to to brake it. The US Government in general (executive, legislative, and judicial) have become detached from the needs of the common citizen and is under the control of private corporation through their lobbyist and their political campaign contributions (legalized bribes). The political system in the US and around the world, the so called "DEMOCRACIES", is broken. Many of the laws passed in the US congress like the Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, SOPA, are unconstitutional and let the government do whatever they like with our freedoms and individual liberties. Benjamin Franklin once said,

"Who ever exchange security for liberty deserve neither."

In case you haven't noticed, the US government, is torturing and kidnapping people (extraordinary renditions), are killing American citizen overseas without due process of the law with drones (Anwar al-Awlaki, 16 years old), is retaining prisoners of war (by international law) in pseudo penal colonies overseas without due process of the law many who have been prove innocent, etc, etc, etc...

WHO THE HELL IS DOING THE ILLEGAL STUFF. So because the US Government says a person is evil we have to believe them? Who benefit of all these was on drugs and terrorism?

Follow the money all the way to Washington DC.

 

[Guest]

Nice incoherent rant, Miguel

 

[miguel11]

Oho, by the way, 70% of all the intelligence budget goes to private corporations like Booz Allen Hamilton (where Snowden worked) which is owned by the Carlyle Group, an investment bank in which the BUSH family has shares and is part of the board of executives.

The Military Industrial/Security Complex annual budget is of around 1.3 Trillions.

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

 

[TheBigFatClown]

Nice incoherent rant, Miguel

That's the best you got? A 4 word response to multiple valid points in which you yourself offered no counterpoints? Oh, I get it, you aren't actually expecting anyone to take you seriously.

 

[miguel11]

Nice incoherent rant, Miguel

Well then, explain yourself you "GENIUS".

Oho, and in case you haven't notice, the US economy is BANKRUPT (17 trillion US Government Deficit usdebtclock.org), brough to you by the unnecessary WARS OF AGGRESSION and BAILOUTS for the banks. Check out Dmitry Orlov online video (FORA.tv) Social Collapse Best Practices if you want to protect yourself from the coming chaos, or better yet, move to another country.

Ask yourself why HOMELAND Security (homeland sounds Nazi) bought 1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo, not practice but hollow point (to kill), and purchase 3,000 MRAP armor trucks. TO CUT FLOWERS IN YOUR GARDEN?

Do you think the information collected by NSA is not going to be used against you?

THINK AGAIN...

 

[spencer]

DO WE ALL WISH TO BE SLAVES? SNOWDEN is a HERO; This is a police state 1984; DHS buying millions of targets of kids and civilians for "target practice"and urban operations (arresting truthspeakers and whilstleblowers like snowden as well as confiscating guns planning for civil war?????).Meanwhile buying MILLIONS of bullets to kill us all;sounds crazy? look it up. Also you all are commiting a federal crime every time you go to sleep"unless your pineal gland is calicified".Dee to the fact DMT is a schedule 1 drug while being produced by your body every single night to produce dreams. And we all are holding. Couldn't resist the urge to rant...

 

[cliffordcooley]

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

More like, "Follow your tax money!". Ohh, thats right it is considered classified to.

 

[miguel11]

FOLLOW THE MONEY.

More like, "Follow your tax money!". Ohh, that's right it is considered classified to.

You are not far from the truth. The Pentagon has a Black Budget which information is classified even for the corporates prostitutes in the US Congress.

 

[ShadowLeaper]

I am a U.S. citizen.

I believe that they are both traitors for releasing classified information that compromises our country's intelligence-gathering operations. These operations directly affect the safety and security of our citizens -- we are all less safe now that those programs have been brought into the light.

And yes, illegal aliens do need to be deported. If I was in charge, that would be the first thing on my agenda.

 

[cliffordcooley]

These operations directly affect the safety and security of our citizens

For the life of me; I can't understand how you don't see all government as a threat, and blindly stand behind them under a false illusion of security. Governments are controlled by people, people who don't care about those under them. You have got to be blind, if you can't see this within your own life.

Have you ever heard the term power corrupts. Well thats probably one of the reasons we choose to vote on Presidency every 4 years. The thing is our country in not run by those who are in office. They are controlled by outside sources that never loose control, which keep our government corrupted. If you want to get right down to it, our government is just as afraid of these corrupted powers as its citizens. The problem is no one wants to fight the government, but yet to fight these corrupted powers, we would have to first take out the government.

And yes, illegal aliens do need to be deported. If I was in charge, that would be the first thing on my agenda.

Creating borders and restricting immigration was the first sign of freedom loss in this country. Requiring citizenship is the first step in organized oppression. Borders should not be closed to anyone unless oppression is what you really want.

 

[jackal2687]

Governments don't commit crimes - they write the laws and then have the flexibility to abide by them or not themselves. This is a necessary hypocrisy. They will do whatever they see fit to preserve rule and peace. Sometimes, hippies will not understand how complex or grey it can become to fight the lawbreakers and evildoers on their own terms. If you are a hippy then I cannot convince you otherwise, and you may be determined to undermined your government's ability to protect you and your country, or maybe you are just an anarchist like the modern 'anonymous' clowns.

As for Snowden and Manning, they are better off dead as sneaky little traitors don't have the respect of anyone (whose opinion matters). You can see the conceited smirk on little Manning's face anyway - he delights in the trouble he has caused as that is all he is - a troublemaker (perhaps check out his school reports etc).

I'm sorry, but if you disagree then your opinion doesn't really matter to me anyway as you are off-base and thinking outside of universal truth.

One thing I DO blame the government for - not vetting these treacherous pr1cks out in the first place - they never should have had the opportunity to do the damage that they did.

Pity their parents for having to defend their treacherous little boys.

"Everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" -Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[ShadowLeaper]

For the life of me; I can't understand how you don't see all government as a threat, and blindly stand behind them under a false illusion of security. Governments are controlled by people, people who don't care about those under them. You have got to be blind, if you can't see this within your own life.

Humans need leadership and organization to function. Otherwise there would be chaos.

"All government is a threat"? No. Not all.

Have you ever heard the term power corrupts. Well thats probably one of the reasons we choose to vote on Presidency every 4 years. The thing is our country in not run by those who are in office. They are controlled by outside sources that never loose control, which keep our government corrupted. If you want to get right down to it, our government is just as afraid of these corrupted powers as its citizens. The problem is no one wants to fight the government, but yet to fight these corrupted powers, we would have to first take out the government.

Behind every government is a shadow organization that controls it? Yeah, right.

Creating borders and restricting immigration was the first sign of freedom loss in this country. Requiring citizenship is the first step in organized oppression. Borders should not be closed to anyone unless oppression is what you really want.

You want to stay here temporarily for a vacation or something? Our borders are open. You want to come here to live and go to school and work? You'd best start studying for the citizenship tests. And another thing -- you overstay your temporary pass (or come here illegally) and get caught? You get deported and lose all eligibility to re-enter -- no more vacation or citizenship for you.

We also need to stop with the dual-language thing that's been happening on signs and labels. We speak, read, and write in English here. You're free to speak whatever language you want while you're here of course, but signs and such should be English-only.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Humans need leadership and organization to function. Otherwise there would be chaos.

Lets just say I don't believe that, especially not continental wide government. We can survive with only localized government.

Behind every government is a shadow organization that controls it? Yeah, right.

It wasn't so long ago, they were saying the same thing about government surveillance. Believe what you will, but there is a reason for all the speculation around JFK's assassination.

 

[miguel11]

Humans need leadership and organization to function. Otherwise there would be chaos.

Lets just say I don't believe that, especially not continental wide government. We can survive with only localized government.

Behind every government is a shadow organization that controls it? Yeah, right.

It wasn't so long ago, they were saying the same thing about government surveillance. Believe what you will, but there is a reason for all the speculation around JFK's assassination.

ShadowLeaper all of the above demonstrate your political ignorance or you as been part of the government propaganda machine. I am not here to talk about immigration or hatred against immigrants but about corruption within governments. Have you seen, or read, the movie/book Animal Farm or 1984 by George Orwell (you can look on YouTube)? Do you think an authoritarian, totalitarian, mind control government is not possible (e.g. North Korea)? Are we heading into that direction (if we are not there already)? Weren't Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, etc totalitarian regimes? Let?s analyze what totalitarian regimes does.

Kidnapping, torture, executions of citizen without due process of law (with drones), wars of aggressions (what is most commonly known in international law as CRIME AGAINST PEACE), indefinite detention of prisoners (Guantanamo and other black sites), eavesdropping without court order, government constantly lying about everything (mind control propaganda or what is more commonly known as perception management in PSYOPS), etc?

Aren?t the above measure taken by the US Government? Who is behind all of this? Who benefit monetarily? You are claiming that,

Behind every government is a shadow organization that controls it? Yeah, right.

Well YEAH, in case you did not know most member of the US Congress end up working as lobbyist for the companies who lobbied them when they were in office earning millions of dollars (YouTube: US Politicians for Sale?). Most federal offices executive appointees comes from military, financial, pharmaceutical, insurance, etc. industries. Whose money puts a president or congressmen in office? The peoples? money? Have you heard the expression,

MONEY IS NOT FREE SPEECH, CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE (YouTube)?

Where that expression comes from (Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward & Buckley v. Valeo)?

As you can observe the US Government is CONTROLED by external forces, not the people. What is the definition of a DEMOCRACY? RULE BY THE PEOPLE. Are we living in a democracy or a totalitarian regime? Did you know that many prestigious universities do not teach that the US of A is a democracy? Sheldon Wolin (political philosopher) call it Inverted Totalitarianism, others call it Manage Democracy, and there are many other definitions for the same thing.

Now if you have read/watch the book/YouTube video Animal Farm by George Orwell the book talks about a totalitarian regime, which turns into a democracy (through revolution), and then the politicians become so corrupt that they turn that democracy back into a totalitarian regime which then is overthrown back into democracy (through revolution). Those are the cycles of the western political systems. We are now at the stage where the government officials have become so corrupt that they are turning what it used to be a democracy into a totalitarian regime.

You claim that,

Humans need leadership and organization to function. Otherwise there would be chaos." All government is a threat"? No. Not all.

Have you heard the expression,

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." John Dalberg-Acton

Those in government think they have absolute power and they can do as they wish. That is why governments become easily corrupted by external forces, all will depend on the political system (e.g. Direct Democracy or Pure Democracy). YES, GOVERNMENTS OFFICIALS (THE GOVERNMENT) ARE A THREAT TO THE PEOPLE.

What HUMANS need is A humane systems of governments where the need of the people are taking care of, not the need of a few oligarchs, plutocrats who create a totalitarian regime to enrich themselves with tax payers money. That humane system of government is called DIRECT DEMOCRACY where representative are not needed and the people take direct control of their own government (e.g. Switzerland).

So as I have proven, you do not know what you are talking about. You have been so brain washed by the mainstream media propaganda that believe everything you are told. You are a political illiterate, read more and then we will discuss.

 

[miguel11]

By the way, about JFK assassination mentioned by cliffordcooley above, it was a Coup Detat, watch the 10 chapters BANNED (by court rule) History Channel documentary "The Man Who Killed Kennedy" on YouTube.

By the way, not all corporations are bad, generally speaking I am talking of the corporations which heavily depend on government contracts (taxpayers money).