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White Smoke after PC Upgrade

By Skyferia
May 30, 2016
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  1. I upgraded my build to this:
    What happened after power on: White smoke -> When enter Windows 10, only the SSD was able to be read.

    What should I do?
     
  2. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    Keep power OFF for now. Please answer questions before taking more steps.

    What is your electrical service - 120v or 240v? Is the PSU properly set for whichever it is?

    White smoke from where? Smell? Sound?

    Bench build or in a case? If case, did you use standoffs as required?

    Did you check power requirements? Use.. https://us.msi.com/power-supply-calculator What size power does MSI think you should have?

    Keep power OFF for now. Please answer questions before taking more steps.
     
  3. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    What is your electrical service - 120v or 240v? Is the PSU properly set for whichever it is?
    240V, and yes it is set to that WITH anti-surge protection, I.e. power source disconnects when exceeds the 240V threshold.

    White smoke from where? Smell? Sound?
    From where: I do not know as the smoke completely dissipated when I removed the cover of the casing.
    Smell: Burn smell
    Sound: A single spark sound

    Bench build or in a case? If case, did you use standoffs as required?
    In a case and yes I used standoffs.

    Did you check power requirements? Use.. https://us.msi.com/power-supply-calculator What size power does MSI think you should have?
    Check: Not before this post. After checking - 269 Watts
     
  4. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    OK. PSU meets requirement and was properly set to use correct power.

    Single SNAP sound and white smoke sounds like infantile failure of a capacitor, but could merely be a grounding out of some component somewhere in the system. While we might suspect the HDD since it wasn't recognized, it may not be.

    If it were mine, I would disassemble and remove everything from the case - examining each part on all sides for any scorch or brown or black marks. Having checked everything visually, I would rebuild a minimum system. Some folks do this on a desk top - but if you do, support the motherboard 1/2 inch above surface (I use paperbacks, others use the box the motherboard came in).

    Motherboard, cpu w/ internal graphics, heatsink, 1 stick RAM, keyboard, mouse - see if it will POST ( http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000607.htm ). Then see if you can get to BIOS. Work up to SDD and video card, but hold off on HDD until you know you have a properly functioning system.

    If everything is working at this point, you can try installing HDD. Use manual and BIOS to give it correct setting (probably AHCI, definitely not RAID) and not in the boot order.

    Hope this works for you.
     
  5. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    POST: Well I'm using the computer now as I type, so would that mean POST passed? And that would include the SSD and video card (my HDMI cable is connected to my GPU HDMI port right now), correct? If yes, what can I do with the HDDs, how can I install? If no, please correct.
     
  6. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    Perhaps the attached might help further clarify things?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    You are using the same computer as the one with the live short? need to find out what shorted.

    If you don't mind risking what seems to be working , then just go to device manager and find anything which is missing or has a yellow triangle w/ exclamation point. Power down and remove all of those.

    Reboot and confirm that everything in device manager is working properly.

    Then power down and install one new item at a time. Check device manager to confirm proper operation.

    The HDD would be last. Need BIOS to be properly set. Check in device manager. If it appears as 'broken' or missing entirely, go to manufacturer's website and download and run HDD testing utility.

    Try to find the place where the short happened. I would be much happier if I knew that it was an isolated component. I would not leave the system on if I was not nearby and I would turn it off at night.
     
  8. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    How?

    There are none.

    I would be happy too, can you guide me on how I can find that? If any, I own a multi-meter.
     
  9. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    "How?" By looking for it. Brown or black spot - or solder droplets - or severed resistor or capacitor. Strong light - I use a 6x lens.

    "There are none." I take that to mean that the only component missing is the HDD. If so, power down and remove it. Inspect it carefully.

    "I would be happy too, can you guide me on how I can find that? " See above.

    Last, the HDD. Need BIOS to be properly set. Check in device manager. If it appears as 'broken' or missing entirely, go to manufacturer's website and download and run HDD testing utility.
     
  10. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    I don't see any brown/black spot, severed resistor/capacitor, solder droplets:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The HDDs were there in the device manager:
    [​IMG]
    BUT, this:
    [​IMG]

    Also checking the BIOS, the BIOS did not detect the HDDs. How do I enable them, if that is the solution?
     
  11. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

  12. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    You have the basic idea, but be careful following the specifics in an 8 year old thread - there was and still is confusion about IDE/AHCI/RAID. You probably want your SATA drives set to AHCI.

    You seem to have FOUR HDDs and SEVEN USB storage devices (and probably additional USB devices like mouse, keyboard, USB charger, etc). Did you confirm that the sub-totals for power requirement are met by your PSU? It is possible that you have overloaded one of the elements. I think your supply sticker sets sub-limits to +5v and +12v limits
    ( +3.3V@22A, +5V@25A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A, -12V@0.5A, +5Vsb@2.5A per NewEgg)

    Many USB devices can end up overwhelming +5v rail. The split 12v rails mean certain combinations can overwhelm one of the 12v rails.

    Your GPU is listed as 258 watts under load according to http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/Radeon-HD-5770. If that is the case it could translate to 21 amps on the 12v.

    Guru3d offers this advice:
    " Radeon HD 5770 (single GPU)
    • The card requires you to have a 500 Watt power supply unit at minimum if you use it in a high-end system. That power supply needs to have (in total accumulated) at least 40 Amps available on the +12 volts rails."
    Look up your system specifics and review your power needs - I think a larger PSU is needed - and you might be much happier with a big single rail on the 12v.

    Current steps: uninstall all HDDs from Device Manager, disconnect all power to HDDs; do thorough inventory of all devices, total wattage by voltage category, determine power requirement in amps (ohm's law) - then determine what you may need to do about PSU. It seems that you may have some USB devices appearing twice...you may want to uninstall the several instances and reboot to get PnP to reinstall a single instance.
     
  13. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    Thanks for your response, but I only somewhat understand your explanation, can you kindly elaborate on these:
    No, I didn't take into account the HDDs + storage devices as I was told (told before upgrading my build by the ones who recommended the upgrade parts) that they take in very little power, hence negligible, but you said this:
    What do you mean by supply sticker sets, and where did you get the values from, as in from which components?

    Also, what do you mean by rails?

    They have already been uninstalled after post #10, what do you mean by this:
    If it's rebooting after uninstalling, I already did that right after uninstalling.
     
  14. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    NewEgg listed these specifications for a PSU which might be the twin of yours... ( +3.3V@22A, +5V@25A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A, -12V@0.5A, +5Vsb@2.5A per NewEgg) each group is a 'rail' providing specified power at specified voltage using a small group of sensitive electronic components mounted on a PCB and hidden inside the PSU.

    From it I learned that while you might be within total wattage of your uint, on one or two rails you may have overloaded.

    Didn't count ....... in total your HDDs might reach 110 watts... and are only negligible for build with one or two.

    Your 12v rails can only handle 216 watts individually. Your GPU peaks above that. Your 11 HDDs plus CPU plus CD/DVD might tip you over there.

    As to uninstalling - if uninstalled why are they still hanging around in Device Manager (message #10 above)? Clear the decks by uninstalling them.
     
  15. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    I see.

    I should not have trusted the person who recommended that build to me. S/he recommended 5 builds, and agreed to the finalised one. This is a really painful lesson for me.

    Sorry I didn't update after post #10, here's the current state:
    [​IMG]
    photo share


    That Standard SATA ACHI Controller, is that referring to the SSD?
     
  16. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    That Standard SATA ACHI Controller, is that referring to the SSD? yes, and it is my guess that it is for HDDs as you add them

    IDE is old style and may be needed for old HDDs. RAID is complex and I do not think you have it (but you would know if you did). So I think your HDDs will mostly be AHCI.

    Don't know about the USB drives...

    Since you have so many drives, have you given any thought to cloud storage backup - I use iDrive.

    In hopes that your HDDs are all still working (even if only able to install one at a time).

    Still do not know 'short' or cause of white smoke - go carefully.
     
  17. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    Alright, what do you think about this:
    • Cast aside the HDDs, get a new 2TB hard disk (is HDD SATA okay? I'm worried about compatibility) and use it with the current motherboard
      • Yes I have thought of cloud storage a lot and will be more than happy to use that, what's stopping me are:
        • the possibility of one day the cloud will disappear, what of the data?
        • I still have backup HDDs, so less of a reason to use/switch
      • What are your comment on my points?
    • Get a new better PSU, I was recommended this the time of build, what do you think?: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151093
     
  18. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    Cloud? Look at iDrive - share with the whole family - 1 TB

    Upgrade HDD? makes sense, personally I get by with a pair of 500MBs: one in system; one external

    New PSU? - nope, not that one (no longer available, too small, split 12v - No, No, No.).

    Use PSU calculator http://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/index.html. Add 20-30%. Use PSU power search. Single +12v rail. Multiple connectors (6 and 8 pins for future GPUs and for CPU, etc - min 6 sata). You don't have to buy a Titan GTX in order to provide for one on the chance of a gift from a rich uncle... Make sure wires are long enough for your case...600 watts - maybe 650... single +12v rail makes it easier. Confirm it is a good compatible fit (size, power, connectors, where fan blows, etc)- check your manual.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/PowerSearch.aspx?SubCategory=58&N=100007657&IsNodeId=1
     
  19. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    1 TB isn't enough for me as I have a LOT of data, documents mainly.

    If you were in my position, what PSU would you use, taking in the considerating that the GPU will be switched to NVIDIA® Pascal, or something of equivalent calibre, in the very new future?
     
  20. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    600 - 700 watts; single +12v rail; 80 Plus efficiency.

    Pascal GPU will probably use LESS power.

    Single 2 TB will definitely use less power than 11 HDDs.

    Use 'power search' at NewEgg to find candidates.
     
  21. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    11 HDDs? No no, at most I connect 7, and even that is rare, due to the 7th one not being able to be read most of the time. That 11 are probably just the drivers.

    Alright, I will, thank you.
     
  22. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

    I changed my power supply, now everything is fine EXCEPT for:

    - 1/4 of my HDD unable to be read completely, the ST3320613AS ATA HDD; the rest, including my SSD works fine.


    What I found out:

    - One of my power cables was lightly burnt (changed to a new one)
    - My (previous) PSU was slightly damaged

    I also have this problem:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  23. Cycloid Torus

    Cycloid Torus TS Evangelist Posts: 1,657   +309

    Hypothesis: Overload, heat, insulation breakdown, short, the ST3320613AS got zapped.

    Recommendation: Recover files from zapped ST if you can, discard both the zapped HDD and the old PSU (potential for hidden damage too high). Backwash did something to some files (on the zapped HDD?). Uninstall / reinstall whatever it was. Check other HDDs thoroughly with HDD Manufacturer's utility (you could have bad sectors).

    You were very lucky - it could have taken out major components like motherboard or CPU.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  24. Skyferia

    Skyferia TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 17

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