Okay, so here's the deal. I decided to do a little investigating the other day, using Dells and Apples. I chose Dell because that is what we use at work and I wanted to research as if I was the average user, not the avid system builder that I am...

so, I go to Dell, ring myself up a brand new Dell XPS M1530 system, 4GB mem, 2.2Ghz Core 2, 160GB HD, 256Mb vid card, 15.4" screen, Vista Home Premium. Price: $1,868.00.

I go over to Apple and assemble the Macbook (not eve the Pro!) with 4GB mem, 2.2Ghz Core 2, 160GB HD, won't tell me the video card, 13" screen, OSX. Price: $2,349.00.

By my calculations, the Macbook will cost me $481 more...for the exact same hardware, if worse b/c of the video being inferior. What the deal with that? Everyone is whining because Vista costs soooooo much...why? Basically, people are paying almost $500 more for the Mac OS, right? Is there something I am missing here? Are the XPS and the MacBook not comparable; does the MacBook last longer than the XPS? Why is there such a hate for Vista price and not the same for OSX? I am not a hater, I am just trying to understand justifying $500 more if both systems are comparable. Any comments would be appreciated.

oh, here are the links I used:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DYCWHN3&s=dhs
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...024002/wo/eY7QoT7eJo623tJBewu1U7yWVSx/10.?p=0

Ok I did a comparison and this is what I found. Bold shows favored difference.

Dell XPS M1530 $1629

-Tuxedo Black
-Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)
-Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Edition
-High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1440x900, CCFL, 220 nits)
-2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
-Size: 120GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
-Slot Load DVD+/-RW (DVD/CD read/write)
-256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT
-Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card
-Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0+Enhanced Data Rate)
-56 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
-High Definition Audio 2.0
-Thickness: 0.93" - 1.38"
-Weight: Starting at 5.78 lbs

Macbook Pro $1999

-Silver Aluminum
-Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T7500 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB, 4MB Cache)
-Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard
-High Resolution, matte widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1440x900) LED Backlight
-2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
-8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
-NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 128MB of GDDR3 SDRAM and dual-link DVI
-Built-in AirPort Extreme (802.11n)
-Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
-60-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs)
-Combined optical digital input/audio line in, combined optical digital output/headphone out, stereo speakers, microphone
-Thickness: 1"
-Weight: 5.4 pounds

Points to Ponder
-The difference is $370
-The macbook pro has an LED backlit screen which dell charges $150 more for on the 1330 model (the macbook pro screen is 15" though, so it'd cost more than a 13.3" LED screen).
-Dell sometimes offers further discounts via coupon codes.
-The macbook pro is an even 1" thick, where the dell is ~1.4" thick at the back.
-The xps 1530 has double the video ram.
-No option of XP on xps 1530.
-Macbook pro has optical in/out audio jacks.
-Xps 1530 has more usb ports and hdmi

Conclusions

The macbook pro costs a little more, even if you factor in the LED screen. However, some of its characteristics are hard to value monetarily, like the "value" of being 1" thick, the "value" of os x 10.5, the "value" of the magsafe magnetic power adapter, the "value" of the backlit keyboard, the "value" of not having tons of "crapware" preinstalled, the "value" of not having to deal with viruses and/or malware, the "value" of apple support, and the value of the included "iLife" apps.

So basically, it's kind of like comparing apples and oranges

I have a good friend with a 24" iMac running Parallel's Desktop (a virtual system) with XP/Pro.

Absolutely all hardware features are operational on either OS or both at the same time.

The goofy part is the printing from XP/Pro is 'round about via IP remote printing back
to OS X printer. the best one can say is it works

historically, Macs have been slightly more expensive, but frequently the comparisons
are apples to oranges as the network, sound, video were not included in the PC.
{yes I saw that this thread included those options}

also historically, with fewer OEM components, getting drivers was trivial and stability has been excellent (ie no BSODs)

{just my $0.02 }

yeah, I think Macs have always been more expensive, but they are getting more affordable. I think that and the bad PR that Vista is getting, whether deserved or not, are causing more people to migrate. At least at my college, the hip thing to do is get a Mac.

yeah, so you could run Paralells, but doesn't that cost $$?? Also, you have to buy an XP license...

I dunno, the debate could go on and on, but I think Apple is definitely gaining in the laptop market, and if they ever are the same price as PCs, Microsoft will have its work cut out for it regaining the user trust.

true they are pricy , i like thier preformance, so i guess to me that justify the price

To tell you the truth, I'm wondering about the same thing.

Rasputin.......?

The only thing I can figure is that Steve Jobs is a Svengali like figure that can make people believe every half truth out of his mouth is the word of God.

I like the I-phone that you can't replace the batteries yourself. But, more than that I like the Macbook Air! Gosh, I just think it's the greatest to pay $2700.00 for a laptop without an optical drive. After all I'm too big a p****y to carry a big heavy 7 or so pound laptop around that will do twice as much for half the price. I think I'll start saving for an Airbook tomorrow, right after my lobotomy.

I'ts bad enough I have to listen to my kid (40) tell me his "Mac Mini" is a real computer.
2256 MB of RAM, 40GB HDD, CD burning only. I gots to git me one of them babys! That POS was over priced too! Oh BTW I bought an Emachines ,that's right, Emachines, at the same time, the Mac Mini's down with a bad HDD, while my T-5026 is still going strong.

Gotta laugh at the "paying for the experience" crap. What is that like, a car salesman trying to sell me on the resale value of a used Toyota that's already 3-4 years old as opposed to a newer Hyundai that is cheaper?

There is no justification for charging more price for the same product and if you want to go with the whole "experience" thing of paying hundreds more for Mac OS X then you guys need to stop bitching about the price of Vista.

Well, OK.......

The Mini here (my son's) is 3 years old, isn't anything near what you're describing, and has a broken HDD. It also cost more than $499.00. If you like I'll cede you the concept that yours is more competent than his. We keep going through the idea that the PSU in an Emachine is a time bomb, but as I've reiterated many times, the 300 watt Bestecs aren't lethal to the board when they qiut. So, my kids Mini is 256MB RAM and a 40GB (BROKEN) HDD. The fact the Mini is small is so cute, but all the s*** you have to plug into it is full size, which kind of defeats the purpose, wouldn'd you say? Then there's the USB mouse and keyboard, which eats 2 of the 4 USB ports. So, if the PSU fails in the Emachine, I'll just jack the side off it and install a new one, the HDD too for that matter. I understand that you need 2 putty knives and a fair amount skill to pull the Mni apart, or pay the Apple Store $270.00 for a new drive with instalation.
Now, compare Apples to Apples (actually Apples to Emachines) and I could replace the 160GB WD caviar in my Emachine for about $60.00 and 10 minutes work.
Please, don't try to play the green card, my kids Mini is a glorified, desk bound laptop, and it draws power like one, granted. But, coming from this forum as we both do where everybody asks is this 750 Watt PSU enough to run my new gaming computer, I think I'll go right on not giving a Rat's *** about the 350 Watt supply it takes to run my system.
Why does it always come to This?:haha: :wave:

I'd take a normal ultralight laptop over a MacBook Air any day. They are at least not fragile. I actually have a Dell D400 myself (running OpenSUSE 10.3). I love light laptops. But that MacBook Air? No freakin' way. Laptops generally do not get the best treatment and I'd dread owning one of those over my D400.

Not sure what you mean about the PSU thing or higher power draw. Windows Vista uses SpeedStep just as well as Mac OS does. A 300GB draws as much as an 80GB hard drive.

Not sure if you've ever played with a D400. Yes, it is quite solid. You can put something on top of it and not worry about destroying the LCD under the lid. I've seen how people treat laptops in general and I doubt that a MacBook Air would survive any of that.

ROFL! Try 10 years of experience in IT support, kid. I spent 8 years as a 3C0X1 in the USAF (SSgt) and my peers considered me a subject matter expert with PC hardware. After I separated from the USAF I have spent the last 2 years doing IT support for a large corporation as well supporting the headquarters as well as users in locations across the United States, Canada and England.

Cheap computers do not equal cheap PSUs. I doubt you know one thing about the inside of a PSU to be honest. If you think that OEMs put the same type of power supplies that come with $20 cases then you are very mistaken.

What kills those cheap computers and their power supplies are lack of proper cooling. They are usually packed on the inside to preserve space and use maybe a single fan or two on super low RPM so it doesn't become a loud and annoying PC. Then of course most people don't clean the inside of those systems often so heatsinks get clogged with dust, that makes the system hotter and the air inside hotter because the air cannot flow over the heatsinks to help cool what they are attached to. Not sure if you are familiar with the thermal limits of a capacitor or not. I've seen them melt and explode before with too much heat.

But that might all be a bit complicated to you or maybe you lack ANY experience in dealing with stuff like that.

You simply don't know what you're missing.

Mac gets quite a push from it's reputation in the graphics and photo sector, and to be fair their "Color Synch" color management is excellent. As always each persons results may vary.
I actually don't have a bias against Apple computers, now towards (many) of their owners is a different story. They're usually way, way holier than thou. They're usually bragging that their Apple is immune to viruses, when truth be told, the virus writers simply ignore them quite a bit. If the whole truth be told, most of them are too stupid to handle security on a Windows box. And obviously, that is present personnel excluded. I actually think M$ is being too laid back about responding to their crap a** , obnoxious, and condescending ad campaign. My experience is that everybody that goes out a buys an Apple, starts talking down to you the minute they plug it in.

There'es certainly no need to apologize or sympathize with me for Junior's misadventures. I threw together a spare parts box for him based in a Celeron 356, Foxconn board, 2 GB 667Mhz Kingston "Value RAM", Pioneer DVR112 DVD burner, Seagate 80GB SATA2, Antec "Smartpower 400", and Windows XP MCE 2005. Junk though it may be, at least it will burn a DVD and run Photoshop Elements. The Mini doesn't meet minimum requirements on the PSE5.

Oddly enough, PCWorld reports a relatively high level of owner satisfaction with Emachines. Hey, they did the survey, don't shoot the messenger.

When you talk about mindless bias, without experience, I keep telling everybody that the new Bestec 300 Watt PSUs, while still a POS, don't take out the mobo when they go. Yet everybody answers that with horror stories about the 250 Watt supplies. Is that mindless bias without experience? Who knows, right.

The real answer to this thread should have been very succinct; "because there's a whole lot of price fixing going on, boys and girls". Yeah, it's illegal, but try and prove it.