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Windows XP and Windows Vista networking issues

By Schmutz
Jan 29, 2008
  1. I have networked two computers, one Windows XP (32bit) and the other Windows Vista (Ultimate x64)

    I have Internet on the Vista computer (ICS sharing from XP computer)

    From the Vista computer I can access shared folders on the XP computer

    On the XP computer I cannot see any of the Vista shared folders

    I can't get Print Sharing to work (the printer is connected to the XP computer)

    When I try to play games over LAN both computers cannot see the other one
    _________________________________________________________________

    I've tried the following;

    Disabling firewalls on both computers...

    Using the same workgroup name on both computers (MSHOME)...

    Connecting the computers without an internet connection...

    Turned on all "sharing and discovery" options in windows vista (network sharing center)


    ...... out of ideas, you have any techspot???
     
  2. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,754   +96

    Same issue with the X64-XP with X32-XP they have the same problems. I know that Vista has some issues with XP with networking that's. Most of us networking guys at work just either have Vista on all the PCs or just revert back to XP. I think there is something you can do it's on http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/default.aspx
     
  3. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

  4. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    Thankyou for the responses, while I followed some advice from the links provided, and found many other useful websites I was unable to resolve any problems,

    Although, I have now bought a wireless router* to network all my PC's and devices, and everything is now working very well - this includes filesharing, both computers can now access shared files from the other. LAN games however are still not working. I've been testing with Command and Conquer 3 and Gears of War but simply cannot see the other PC.

    I have a feeling this has something to do with XP to Vista connection, but I have managed to play both games over LAN by playing around with some settings. This was while Internet was disconnected, and both computers where connected via their onboard gigabit LAN connections - so the setup was temporary. I might make a separate thread for this, as my original problem is now solved thanks to the router

    *model is Buffalo Wireless-G MIMO performance broadband router bridge & Access point
     
  5. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    I still suspect the firewall(s)
     
  6. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    yup looks like it after some research I came across "portforward.com" and see that routers have firewalls built in, but I am not sure at all how to configure mine, will I need to allow everything one by one or is there a big on/off switch I can find somewhere?

    My wireless connection is protected, and I know enough to hop around the internet without catching any dangerous files :D So I think its safe to turn it off completely, as well as the Windows XP/Vista firewalls...

    As well as games, my bitorrent software (Bittornado) is always displaying a yellow light as of installing the router. Yellow light indicates "no incomming connections" so I think that probably confirms I'll be able to fix this by disabling/configuring the router correctly...
     
  7. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    Most routers we use at home are hard pushed to claim that they are FIREWALLS.
    At best they provide NAT and SPI services (with of course DHCP which has nothing to do with FWs.)

    The port forwarding feature is a requirement created by the using NAT, which we need
    to allow multiple systems to share our ISP connection.

    Your router is not causing your problems with your games.

    I would always use a firewall, especially with a wireless laptop, but even at home with a
    desktop system. There are many nasty viruses that can 'traverse NAT' to get to your system.
    Every once in a while, my firewall catches a port scan from an address that looks
    as if it is the DNS from my ISP! (clearly dns does not port scan). Without the firewall,
    the attack would have made contact with my system!

    If your car had a flat tire, you wouldn't replace the engine, so don't throw out your
    security because a game can't find another system -- work on the configuration
    of the game and the ports necessary for it to operate.
     
  8. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    Thankyou jobeard

    I am not familiar with Port forwarding and things, but I would guess configuring bittorrent to work correctly is the ideal way to learn, all I need to do is change some settings until I see the green light :) From there I'll start working on getting the games working.

    My bitorrent software is "bittornado". In bittornado's preferences I can see Port range:

    FROM: 10000
    TO: 60000

    ... with RANDOMISE checkbox underneath

    These settings are always like this so I haven't changed them, how do I configure my Router for bittorrent? How do I know what ports to allow? I can access "port mapping" from my routers configuration, and from there I can enter TCP, UDP and my LAN IP address, but I do not know what values to use at all

    EDIT: On Portforward.com I'm going to give the instructions here a shot, I'll report back how things go :)
     
  9. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    yes ... use those instructions on the bittornado's preferences ... the port range looks good too.

    That configs bittornado, but you need to log into the router itself to perform the forward.

    1- your system needs a fixed IP address (using MAC filtering or a static assignment)
    2- just forward 10000-10010 to $system-ip
     
  10. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    thanks for confirmation

    I don't fully understand the first step you have mentioned about Fixed IP address, not sure what MAC filtering is, and attempted the static assignment guide on portforward without much success at all really, but I'm now seeing green lights in bittornado after inputting 10000-10010 in the TCP and UDP text fields. On the third field (LAN IP Address) I have checked the option "IP address of your PC" as oppossed to entering an IP address manually.

    I have seen a maximum of 300Kbps download speed via bittorrent since the status lights are green, whereas I can download files from my ISP and Microsoft at 2Mbps so I think there could still be a problem, but I know it will vary from torrent to torrent so I am hoping I've been unlucky

    And about playing games over a LAN, Can Port forwarding actually solve the problem I'm having there anyway? I can see how multiplayer games like Command and Conquer 3 need to be configured to connect to other people online but i'm just connecting to a networked computer, one that I can even share files with
     
  11. N3051M

    N3051M TS Rookie Posts: 2,800

    fixed ip: i assume he means having one IP address for the machine, so when you turn off the pc/disconnect and reconnect it back to the network it will keep its current address.. also known as static ip address

    eg: your pc is 192.168.1.102 (assigned by the router's DHCP). If you set your router to give the addresses automaticaly, it could be 192.168.1.104 the next time you reconnect (especially if there are other networked pcs). Keeping the address fixed reserves that address for your machine only, and gives you some benifits and less headache when doing port forwarding etc. especially on a network with more than just one pc..

    two ways to do this, either use window's network connections/network sharing center and configure the IP address there to whatever you desire, or through the router itself by looking for a page/function labled "DHCP" or dhcp reservation or ip adresses or similar.. you can check the ip address of your machine at any time by going
    start>run > cmd > ipconfig

    The MAC address is just the unique ID of the hardware connecting to the network.. ie your network card adn therefore your machine.

    not sure how to fix your games for lan, but you can google them with the word LAN if you havent tried already.. although it could be as simple as adding the games as exceptions to the firewalls of both the pcs.. (guessing...)
     
     
  12. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    cool thanks that makes sense.

    I am sure the LAN/games are not working because I'm using VIsta 64bit on one machine and XP 32bit on the other after what you have said. I've tried searching google for answers with no luck, and I have tried with the windows firewall turned off to rule that out
     
  13. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    To report here; after installing this fix on the XP computer:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120

    I can now see the XP machine (From the Vista x64) in the Command and Conquer 3 LAN lobby

    The XP machine cannot see the Vista one, if I host a game on the XP computer, I can see it on the Vista one but the connection will time out if I try joining.

    ..............Now to get the VISTA computer to appear on the XP machine - I'm sure its going to work once thats possible can anyone suggest things to try?
     
  14. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

  15. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    Already looked when you posted before

    it is a useful checklist to refer to, but I do have shared files completely resolved now. I can see anything I share on my computers from any computer, and I can access all my videos/multimedia on the games consoles

    its came down to one thing and thats being able to see the Vista computer on the XP one while in LAN lobbys (Command and Conquer/Gears of war)
     
  16. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    There are complaints on using the LLTP service due to excessive network traffic it generates.
    As this service is related to the visualization of the LAN (which btw you can get by other means, eg Network Magic),
    File/Print sharing is not dependent upon kb922120 and you only need to open
    ports 135-139,445 for your subnets to retain pre-vista functionality.
     
  17. tipstir

    tipstir TS Ambassador Posts: 4,754   +96

    Everyone I know have the same issues with Vista and XP when it comes to sharing folders, drives and printers. Are you running SP3 on XP, it might clear up some issues but it might start to bug you with prompts when you move files around.
     
  18. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    thanks.

    What must I do to open ports 135-139,445? If I type 192.168.11.1 into my IE browser, and enter my password I can access my routers menu, from there I follow the "Internet games (port mapping)" link, which takes me to a screen with three text fields;

    TCP

    UDP

    LAN IP Address (I leave this part on "IP address of your PC(192.168.11.4)" but I have the option to enter one manually)

    I hope I understand this correct and that I have found the right place to configure ports ! :)

    Also, if I configure settings on one computer, will it take effect on the other computers too?

    Well thats comforting (and unfortunate!) to know that Vista - XP networking seems to be a pain for other people too. Though I do have shared folders working both ways, what are their experiences like trying to play games over LAN?

    The XP computer is running Service Pack 2, but I think I should give Service pack 3 a shot - can the prompts be turned off like Vista User Account Control? :D ?
     
  19. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    the controls are not in the Router but need to be added to EVERY System's Firewall.
    (the how-to is specific to each vendor's product)


    under no condition do you ever forward 135-139 +445 from the router anywhere!
     
  20. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    I think I misunderstood. I thought you mean't to forward them ports from the router, not Firewall, I didn't though fortunately. BTW. I don't have the Vista/Windows XP firewalls on (or any other software firewalls). So I don't understand how there is any need to configure the firewalls when they are not turned on
     
  21. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    yes you have it but maybe it's disabled; FIXIT immediately.

    let's go thru some basics;
    the router gives you NAT and SPI which allows you to share the ISP connection
    and to filter bad packets(spi).

    it has port forwarding feature, but most of the time you want that OFF.

    every system that connects to the Internet needs a firewall.
    Its job is to stop inbound data that was not requested (can't be relevant and therefore is untrustworthy).

    This creates conditions where your LAN systems would be unable to share files and printer,
    so we need to tell the firewall to ALLOW traffic from known locations on know ports.

    does this help?
     
  22. Schmutz

    Schmutz TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 241

    Yes it makes sense. But I want to keep the firewalls off because they cause annoying problems. If I do that I don't need to allow traffic from known locations because its going to be allowing everything

    File/printer sharing isn't a problem at all! Its working great. I just need to configure things to get LAN games working correctly, and full download speeds on bittorrent (2.2mbps rather than a maximum of 500kbps)

    The failsafe to getting LAN games working correct could well be installing Vista on the XP machine, but with AMD 3500+/1gb RAM/6800GT 256mb Vista is a little sloppy on it. I am sure there is a way to configure the computers/router to get LAN games working. I have actually done it successfully before by removing internet and the router completely and creating a network without an internet connection. This tells me that when its all configured to use the internet/router something that allows connection for LAN games is turned off
     
  23. jobeard

    jobeard TS Ambassador Posts: 13,516   +336

    well it's your choice. imo quite foolish. you have no means to either protect from nor even determine if you're being attacked. good luck.
     
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