XFX accidentally confirms AMD Radeon R9 390X is a rebrand

[Guest]

It's a chicken or the egg problem. Demand is going to be stifled *because* single GPUs currently cannot deliver at 4K. So you are right it is a niche but there has to be a GPU to service the niche before it un-niches!

Exactly.
I'd go a step further and say it will only come out of "niche" territory when a single GPU around the $300 range can run 4K adequately, alongside with 4K monitors coming down to around $300 as well (like 1440p is getting to now). It's not enough to have a $650+ graphics card that runs 4K, and $500+ monitors, because that's still out of reach for most of the market.
Look at 1440p right now. TechSpot always reviews games at that resolution, and we have been seeing that relatively affordable GPUs like the R9 290/290X and the GTX 970 can perform reasonably well at 2560x1440, even if not always on the highest settings. 1440p monitors aren't that much expensive anymore either. But I, personally, was surprised to see that, despite all this, 1440p still accounts for barely more than 1% of Steam users.

 

[gbhall]

Whilst not entirely certain of my facts here, I think what is happenening is similar to what happens with CPUs from the likes of Intel and AMD. Virtually even CPU comes from the same die, and is intended to be sold as the fastest, most feature-complete CPU as designed 2-3 years ago. However, after thorough testing, the vast majority of product have faulty internal parts of one sort or another, and are then sold as variants such as fewer cores, slower clocked, smaller onboard cache, and so on, maybe even down to 32-bit instead of 64-bit capable.

In GPU terms, the same thing must happen, but over time, process control improves and yields improve, such that the ultimate capabilities the chip was intended to have when designed 2-3 years ago become readily available. So they can market the orginal design as if it was a new design. I dont really think that is sharp practice. It's a real enough achievement.

 

[Puiu]

While it's a rebrand, we still don't know what new features they added and what improvements a more mature process will bring. Without a change in process node, I expected AMD to release a lot of rebrands. It's the normal thing to do for a company that is betting a lot on the new Fury GPUs.

I'm more interested in what we will see next year under 14/16nm nodes from AMD and Nvidia. We'll also see the 2nd gen HMB and the Pascal architecture. 2016 will be a big year for both companies.

 

[amstech]

Take a look at the Steam hardware survey, "primary display resolution" section. Currently, there are 0.06% of Steam users running a 3840x2160 monitor. This is compared to 34.54% for 1920x1080 and 1.11% for 2560x1440. To put that in perspective, there are over 18 times more people running 1440p, and over 575 times more people running 1080p, than people running 4K..

Pretty cool results from an older survey.

4K is absolutely, without the slightest ammount of doubt, a niche

Not in the slightest.
Many top dog players are gaming at 4K, and the numbers are increasing as 4K monitors release, compete and drop in prices.

 

[loading]

Take a look at the Steam hardware survey, "primary display resolution" section. Currently, there are 0.06% of Steam users running a 3840x2160 monitor. This is compared to 34.54% for 1920x1080 and 1.11% for 2560x1440. To put that in perspective, there are over 18 times more people running 1440p, and over 575 times more people running 1080p, than people running 4K..

Pretty cool results from an older survey.

4K is absolutely, without the slightest ammount of doubt, a niche

Not in the slightest.
Many top dog players are gaming at 4K, and the numbers are increasing as 4K monitors release, compete and drop in prices.

Lmao. So where are your links to the "dominating" 4k market then? 4k is niche. Period. And he's pulling those numbers from the CURRENT Steam stats. Not some arbitrary survey from 2010.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

 

[Kinglock]

GCN is a good architecture and I've never had an issue with my Sapphire Radeon R9 290 TriX OC. There isn't a game I have ever had issues with.

Do you ever notice the power consumption of that card and the speed for the fans to dissipate the heat from it? If they rebrand that card I will for surely go with nvidia.

 

[Vaibhav Sharma]

This is a great hipster site
"WTF, AMD" is their tagline on homepage for this article.

 

[amstech]

Lmao. So where are your links to the "dominating" 4k market then?

Dominating? Don't be silly.

4k is niche. Period.

It's a new, presently evolving gaming setup.
Calling it niche means its not at a point where its possible without special equipment, or where close to no one is doing it. It just takes a 4K monitor (less then $600) and a nice GPU ($500-$650).
People were buying three Titans at release.
Because most can't afford to game at this resolution (even now as prices have dropped) does not mean many are not. Many people are switching/gaming at 4K now.

And he's pulling those numbers from the CURRENT Steam stats. Not some arbitrary survey from 2010.

Steam is a terrible place to gather information on high powered setups, the average GPU's are low-mid range cards.
Most of all, It's a poor source to make an argument from to place a tag on 4K as niche.

 

[Guest]

Hopefully the reason is because the new fiji GPU is so powerful that they cant name it 390x, because its quicker that a Titan X :E

 

[Guest]

It's a new, presently evolving gaming setup.

Calling it niche means its not at a point where its possible without special equipment, or where close to no one is doing it. It just takes a 4K monitor (less then $600) and a nice GPU ($500-$650).

People were buying three Titans at release.

Because most can't afford to game at this resolution (even now as prices have dropped) does not mean many are not. Many people are switching/gaming at 4K now.

Where are you coming up from with these infos. Are you looking at some charts that we don't know about? How many people you personally know bought 3 Titans? How many people exactly are switching to 4k gaming NOW?

I believe you're just trying to save face and backpedal by pulling statistics out of thin air.

4k is a niche. PERIOD.

 

[Guest]

Pretty cool results from an older survey.

The Steam hardware survey is updated every month. The worst possible case here is this data is one month old.

Not in the slightest.
Many top dog players are gaming at 4K, and the numbers are increasing as 4K monitors release, compete and drop in prices.

"Many" is a statistically insignificant term. Steam shows it's 0.06% of their users. It doesn't matter if it's one thousand people and you consider that "many", it's still an absolutely tiny fraction of the total, and therefore niche.

Calling it niche means its not at a point where its possible without special equipment, or where close to no one is doing it.

Incorrect. Calling it niche means it's still limited to a small segment of the market (as opposed to being large, mainstream segment, like 1080p is). It has absolutely NOTHING to do with requiring special hardware.
And again, the Steam survey shows 0.06% of their users use 4K. That does mean that close to no one is doing it.

People were buying three Titans at release.

Yes. Extremely few people, to the point of being statistically insignificant. Meaning it's also a niche.

Because most can't afford to game at this resolution (even now as prices have dropped) does not mean many are not.

That's exactly what it means. The vast majority of the market either cannot afford 4K gaming, or can afford it but is not interested in it. That leaves a tiny minority that can afford it and is interested.

Many people are switching/gaming at 4K now.

Not only that claim requires a source, but also some statistics showing how exactly this "many" people compare to the total market. Like I said, you could consider a thousand people "many", but that's still insignificant compared to the entire market.

Steam is a terrible place to gather information on high powered setups, the average GPU's are low-mid range cards.

Steam survey reflects with reasonable accuracy the hardware markey, where the most sales come from mainstream (mid-range) hardware. You want to disregard all low-end and mid-range systems to benefit your argument, which is absurd.
But even then, if you look only at the top 10% high-end hardware, the prevalence of 4K displays would be still just 0.6%. It's a niche no matter how you look at it, even if you cherry-pick the high-end systems only.

 

[amstech]

The Steam hardware survey is updated every month. The worst possible case here is this data is one month old.

Doesn't change the fact most steamers are budget gamers and those results do nothing to fortify any argument against the number of people gaming at 4K.
Using Steam as a result base is doing nothing to boast your argument that 4K is niche.

That's exactly what it means. The vast majority of the market either cannot afford 4K gaming

Hey alright now your getting it!
Todays GPU's leave a lot to be desired at this resolution, people don't want to spend $650 for 30-40FPS. That being said, besides 4-5 demanding games a 980TI runs 4K quite well and doesn't require much power to do it.

That leaves a tiny minority that can afford it and is interested.

A number that is growing.

4K is very expensive and most games won't look much different comparing 1440p to 2160p, but 4K is new new thing and its taking off.
4K results are and have been included in most review sites for months and forums are loaded with people with 4K setups.
3 months ago it would have been niche, but loads of PC gamers are making the jump.
Even using a poor source like Steam with bargain gamers, which has millions of gamers, 1% would be thousands.

 

[Guest]

Doesn't change the fact most steamers are budget gamers

Citation needed.
There's no reason to assume Steam unfairly represents high-end users. Both high-end and lower-end users alike use Steam.
And again, even if you ignore the entire bottom 90% of the survey, 4K is still a measly 0.6% of the high-end users. If you look only at the top 5%, it's still 1.2%. That's niche, no matter how you look at it, and whether you want to accept it or not.

That being said, besides 4-5 demanding games a 980TI runs 4K quite well

Guess what! Spending $650 on GPU hardware alone is also a niche market. The enormous majority of the GPU market is in the $300~$350 range and below, mostly around the $200 range. The most common discrete GPU on Steam is the GTX 760.

A number that is growing.

You're right, it is growing. So, AFTER it grows (to something like 5% at least), it will stop being niche. Right now, at 0.06% of the total, and 0.6% among the top 10% systems, it is absolutely, unarguably a niche segment.

 

[EEatGDL]

According to a Korean site named hwbattle.com, we'll be looking at three variants of the Fiji chip above the R9 390X. You can find a few translated pages around the web on your own.

Well, there are 3 i7 Extreme models on Intel's side; that doesn't prevent the mainstream i7s to be considered 'top'. Same applies here. Of course HBM may improve the memory bandwidth in an order of magnitude and improve performance; but it's still added value to be set apart without minimizing the "traditional top" options.

An i7 4770K, GTX 980 Ti, R9 390X are all 'top' models regardless of the presence of the i7 5960X, Titan X, Fury *whatever* with their respective [arguably] added values. You can call the latter something like the 'ultimate' league, rather than a simple top.

 

[Xyr3s]

This is borderline fraud as far as I'm concerned. Pathetic.

I think it's not as bad as people think... the 290x came what like almost 2 years ago? end of 2013ish?, the gtx 970 came mid 2014. so the 290x wasn't actually made to compete with the 970, it was the other way around, the 290 was I guess ahead of it's time... and now the 300 series is being released to compete with the 970 and 980 I guess while the fury cards with the HBM to drop later would probs be the titan x competition.

 

[Darth Shiv]

Exactly.
I'd go a step further and say it will only come out of "niche" territory when a single GPU around the $300 range can run 4K adequately, alongside with 4K monitors coming down to around $300 as well (like 1440p is getting to now).

Yeah $300 and the decision would be made. No approval needed from the board of finances

 

[amstech]

Guess what! Spending $650 on GPU hardware alone is also a niche market. .

Lol, whatever you say.

 

[Guest]

Lol, whatever you say.

It's not me who is saying it, it's Steam. A vastly better source than yours, which is none.

 

[amstech]

It's not me who is saying it, it's Steam. A vastly better source than yours, which is none.

Whatever you say.

 

[Squid Surprise]

"An i7 4770K, GTX 980 Ti, R9 390X are all 'top' models regardless of the presence of the i7 5960X, Titan X, Fury *whatever* with their respective [arguably] added values. You can call the latter something like the 'ultimate' league, rather than a simple top."

For the point of accuracy...TOP means TOP... not NEAR the TOP... but TOP!!
---> If something is on TOP of your "top".... then your "top" is no longer at the TOP!!

So NO, the 390x is NOT the top end card... it will be Fury... 390X can be "near the top" if you must quibble...

Same with your i74770 and 980Ti.... it`s NEAR the top... NOT top... Thank you, come again

 

[Squid Surprise]

Amstech, Since you won't accept Steam stats... how about Cisco? They have a pretty firm grasp on reality... which you apparently don't...

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/soluti...rking-index-vni/VNI_Hyperconnectivity_WP.html

Check out Figures 5 and 6... for current and future 4k usage...
Looks like the Steam stats are correct... but the FUTURE looks pretty good for 4k - by 2019 21% of VOD streaming will be in 4k, and more than 30% of displays will be 4k...

But this is still 4 years away... so until then... NICHE!!!

 

[Guest]

I think someone needs to learn the definition of niche As niche doesn't mean small though the distinct specific part of a market indeed could be small.

4k gaming is as much a niche as is surround / multi monitor gaming. Both each a very small segment of all computer usage. Integrated graphics is more likely than not the highest used types of graphics by a huge margin overall than a separate dedicated graphics card

 

[Squid Surprise]

I think someone needs to learn the definition of niche As niche doesn't mean small though the distinct specific part of a market indeed could be small.

4k gaming is as much a niche as is surround / multi monitor gaming. Both each a very small segment of all computer usage. Integrated graphics is more likely than not the highest used types of graphics by a huge margin overall than a separate dedicated graphics card

Very true... "niche" actually just means a specific segment (when applied to marketplace concerns - otherwise simply a hole in the wall!)...

This argument had defined it (yes, wrongly, but all parties had agreed on the false definition) as a very small segment... perhaps we should simply say "really small"

I'll rephrase my last statement - 4k gaming is REALLY SMALL right now... in the future, it looks like it will attain the same position as 1080p has now (future meaning around 2019).

 

[amstech]

I'll rephrase my last statement - 4k gaming is REALLY SMALL right now... in the future, it looks like it will attain the same position as 1080p has now (future meaning around 2019).

It takes a long time for top-tech to dwindle down so your average user plays at that resolution. Those predictions are always terrible, like when they said 5 years ago that GPU's would be extinct in 2015. Even so, using that premise to label 4K as mainstream makes no sense and does not justify anything.
By the end of next year/2016, the number of people gaming at 4K will have doubled/tripled and it will by anything but niche or small.

 

[Guest]

It takes a long time for top-tech to dwindle down so your average user plays at that resolution. Those predictions are always terrible, like when they said 5 years ago that GPU's would be extinct in 2015. Even so, using that premise to label 4K as mainstream makes no sense and does not justify anything.
By the end of next year/2016, the number of people gaming at 4K will have doubled/tripled and it will by anything but niche or small.

Future projections are simply that... Projections.... But look at the CURRENT stats on those figures... They align with Steam - which you claimed were misleading... So where are your sources (other than anecdotal) that state that 4k is mainstream now?!?

Until you can actually PROVE that "many" people are gaming at 4k, I suggest you stop posting... All the PROOF right now states that it's an insignificant %...