Radeon X800 to beat NV40?

By on April 20, 2004, 5:00 PM
While we are still a couple of weeks away from the final veredict, The Inquirer is hinting that ATI's upcoming X800 cards will be faster than NVIDIA's fastest 6800 Ultra... I wouldn't trust on anyone's rumours (and I definitely don't), the claim is indeed bold given that the X800 which they refer to is a 12-pipelines part.

That means that the X800 'XT' version that will unleash R420's full potential at 16-pipelines and a higher clock speed should be even faster?
NVIDIA most definitely has already won the feature race since the X800s won't push Radeon 9800 Pro features much further, but they will need on-par performance to compete, things should get very interesting by the end of the month.




User Comments: 9

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MrGaribaldi said:
Well, with this rumour, and the one about Nvidia changing specs and shipping date to end of may, it's going to be a very interesting time ahead of us! :)My money is currently on ATI, but that might very well change. Though I won't buy a card from Nvidia until they stop cheating in their drivers. Happily it seems like Nvidia has done just that :)(Note: I have not kept up to speed about this since the NV40 launch)
werty316 said:
I wouldn't surprised if this was true even when the X800 series is released. ATI is on a roll so far.
BrownPaper said:
i think that both cards will be pretty equal in terms of performance. the benches on the current nv40 will probably get much better when it gets released. ati's should be the same as well. it looks like nvidia's image quality is getting better so that is good.
DirtDizzle said:
The new features enabled with Nvidia's card (PS3.0 and readily available Ultra shadow II tech onboard video processor) makes the 6800U a VERY difficult card to beat. They aren't making the same mistake as last round by incorporating some prpoprietary code developers have to work with for a speed boost in FPS. Instead they have optimized thier hardware to work with current and future APIs. I can't understand how ATI's part is going to beat this card speed wise and feature wise with FEWER pipes, FEWER transistors, and no new features as of yet to speak of. Of course time will only tell but you have to admit most DX9 games are at the point of being cpu limited so really, how could ATI's card blow the 6800U away?My 2 cents.
MrGaribaldi said:
First off, ATI won't have more features than Nvidia, rather the opposite. ATI will only support PS2.0 whereas Nvidia supports PS3.0.When it comes to transistors, there's a couple of things to remember. Nvidia and ATI does not report the same amount of transistors. Nvidia counts the cache transistors too, whereas ATI only counts the logic. Thus they might be more or less the same size, depending on how many transistors are used for caches.Another thing is that there are several way in which to lay transistors. One can auto-route everything, which a lot of people think the NV30 was an example of, or one can hand place each transistor. Normally you auto-trace, and then tweak that by hand. Usually when you hand place transistors, you can get away with less transistors/use the ones you have more efficiently than if a computer placed them for you.Thus it's pointless to try to judge performance based on how many transistors a chip has. As for pipelines, that too is hard to use when trying to judge performance of a chip. How deep is it? What happens when you use a lot of Pixel Shaders, will it stop somewhere else? Can it it use part of the vertex shader parts to help with the pixel shader workload? etc...So having a lot of deep pipelines might not be better than having a smaller amoung of shallow pipelines.But you are right that in general one expects the one with the most amount of pipelines to be the best performer.But where did you get the info that ATI will have less pipelines than Nvidia? The 6800U is 16 pipelines, and the X800XT will be 16. And if the current rumours are correct they might become available at the same time....The 6800 is 12 afaik, which corresponds with the X800pro.Lastly, as to how the R420 could blow the NV40 away when most games are cpu bound...By allowing the user to use a higher amount of FSAA and AF... If the 6800U gives you 100 fps in a game with 4xFSAA and 8xAF but the X800pro gives you 105 fps in the same game with 6xFSAA and 16xAF, then I'd say that would blow the 6800U away.It doesn't matter how cpu limited a game is, since then we'll crown the card who's the fastest with the highest/best settings... So I think this round will go to however has the best and fastest FSAA and AF. And since ATI allready is ahead due to it's Gamma Corrected FSAA, it might be a close race indeed.
Didou said:
[img]http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos_news/00/07/IMG00076
9.jpg[/img]Picture taken from -> [url=http://www.hardware.fr/news/lire/22-04-2004/#6530]Hardw
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Kencelot said:
This, to me at least, is an exciting time. The two big hitters are about a month away from shipping out their new cards and the battle cry has already been heard everywhere.No matter which card is better, we, the consumers, will be the winners!:grinthumb
DirtDizzle said:
Lastly, as to how the R420 could blow the NV40 away when most games are cpu bound... By allowing the user to use a higher amount of FSAA and AF... If the 6800U gives you 100 fps in a game with 4xFSAA and 8xAF but the X800pro gives you 105 fps in the same game with 6xFSAA and 16xAF, then I'd say that would blow the 6800U away. Really? Without the feature set? Gaming with the ultra shadow II technology as well as PS3.0 kinda leaves ATI with less desirable graphics IMO. So if I had a choice of 5 FPS or a different and much more realistic look at graphics... lol the choice is almost being made for me!It doesn't matter how cpu limited a game is, since then we'll crown the card who's the fastest with the highest/best settings... So I think this round will go to however has the best and fastest FSAA and AF. And since ATI allready is ahead due to it's Gamma Corrected FSAA, it might be a close race indeed.Hmmm still doesn't cover loss of feature set or how the ATI is going to blow Nvidia away... Obviously Nvidia is playing with incredible frames as no matter what has been thrown at it as far as AA and AF.Now I don't want to be read as an Nvidiot BUT the all around best thing I can get is what I want. By allowing for ps 3.0 features by a simple mod, and a few weeks effort by developers I can see how Nvidia is really going out on a limb for us gamers by getting more from our games. I'm absolutly sure more devs would sign up with this for more sales as well as gamer word of mouth and credibility. I'm totally going to support Nvidia this round. You should too. (End of sales pitch) :D Now for the modders out there... I hope I can convert the x800pro into a fully capable x800xt for those fps in the un3.0 mod for all my dx9 games! (Ok really, this is the end of the sales pitch) ;)
Vorkuta said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by DirtDizzle [/i]Really? Without the feature set? Gaming with the ultra shadow II technology as well as PS3.0 kinda leaves ATI with less desirable graphics IMO. So if I had a choice of 5 FPS or a different and much more realistic look at graphics... lol the choice is almost being made for me!Hmmm still doesn't cover loss of feature set or how the ATI is going to blow Nvidia away... Obviously Nvidia is playing with incredible frames as no matter what has been thrown at it as far as AA and AF.Now I don't want to be read as an Nvidiot BUT the all around best thing I can get is what I want. By allowing for ps 3.0 features by a simple mod, and a few weeks effort by developers I can see how Nvidia is really going out on a limb for us gamers by getting more from our games. I'm absolutly sure more devs would sign up with this for more sales as well as gamer word of mouth and credibility. I'm totally going to support Nvidia this round. You should too.[/quote] The real-world benefits of PS 3.0 are yet to be seen, and might not be for some time. PS 3.0 doesn't give you quality, it improves performance and makes it easier for coders to do more complex things that normally take more instructions with PS 2.0. Visually, they are identical, even according to developers. So the equation becomes:NV with PS 3.0 / FP32 doing most at the same speed, but some stuff faster (PS 3.0 isn't a savings across the board).ATi with PS 2.0 / FP24 doing just about everything faster and some things slower.I honestly think any speed gains made by using PS 3.0 (next year?) will be swallowed up by ATi's FP24 / to-spec-PS2.0 performance and better IQ.In short, don't count on PS 3.0 to be a be-all-end-all, it improves efficiency, but a PS2.0 card can run the same code, albeit slower in SOME special circumstances.
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