Time to Dump Internet Explorer

By on June 18, 2004, 5:23 AM
[COLOR=#1951B9]The latest version of IE is 6, and it has certainly accumulated an impressive record of holes: 153 since 18 April 2001, according to the [URL=http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/vendor/]SecurityFocus Vulnerabilities Archive[/URL].[/COLOR]

So, when was the last time that you upgraded IE to get new functionality instead of fixing the latest security hole?
Please do the Internet community a whole good, take 10 minutes and read [URL=http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/249]this article at Securityfocus.com[/URL] and then decide if it would be such a bad thing to go away from IE.

I'm using [URL=http://www.opera.com/]Opera[/URL] myself but the author recommended [URL=http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/]Firefox[/URL]. Both of these are excellent browsers that continually get improved.




User Comments: 68

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acidosmosis said:
I'll continue using it as I always have. I've tried all alternate browsers and they all lack a lot. Opera, Firefox.. you name it. Slow, ugly no matter what skin you use, and face it.. whether or not they are up to the HTML standards they lack compatibility with way too many sites because websites obviously do not live up to HTML standards in most cases. Why because they design their websites for the majority of people. Which is? Internet Explorer.Plus I hate installing useless software when I already have software that does the same job fine.:-)
Didou said:
So you prefer to install IE + 153 patches + AdAware + Spybot + pop-up blocker + tabbed-browsing extension instead of installing one browser that has it all ?I see your point, at least I think I do.;)
joseph.denne said:
It's a basic argument, but the poster is right to urge the dropping of IE. Along with Outlook Express it is the single most exploited application and is akin to leaving your front door, back door and windows open whislt advertising that you've done so in the local gazzet.For the Mac users out there I suggest stepping up to either Safari or Camino. Both are excellent browsers.
jstillion said:
I've been using Firefox since the version before they had an installer :)I've found it as fast as IE or faster easy to use and compatible with 99.9 % of sites that I use.Even though it's "Preview" aka beta. The only problems I've had were with one version and the installer (older version installing on top of a previous build which they fixed).It's fast, stable supports web standards and the pop-up blocker works great and easy use.Went to Firefox and don't ever see me going back to IE.
Phantasm66 said:
I must admit, I've been drawn closer and closer to Firefox recently. Some of the skins are very nice and they work well.
Masque said:
I tend to side with Acid here. I've looked at others....even tried them and found them all lacking. I've used IE since its' inception (usably Ver. 3.0) and overall, I've been very happy. It's the same argument as O/S holes. The hackers are going to go after the most popular, hence, if Firefox or another garnered the largest user base, it would "most likely" be the one most-hacked. You'd see holes never before imagined. They just haven't been found due to lack of interest.Just my $.02.
Rick said:
I too, will continue using IE (at least for awhile).Especially with the XP SP2 enhancements, like pop-up blocker and smarter activex handling.I have no use for tabbed browsing (Opera) and while I do like Firefox very much as a secondary browser, some websites just don't work properly. Especially when we get into newer technologies that require plugins, controls and other funky things.I don't have any problems with IE, including spyware or crashing, but I sure do see a lot of other people with problems at work. ;) I think as long as you take care of it and don't download p0rn all day, IE works great.
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]I don't have any problems with IE, including spyware or crashing, but I sure do see a lot of other people with problems at work. ;) I think as long as you take care of it and don't download p0rn all day, IE works great. [/quote] Exactimondo. I see using "alternative browsers" as nothing but a cliche and a trend. As far as what Didou said about installing Spybot, Adaware, Google Toolbar and that kind of thing. Well I happen to like the Google Toolbar so I can just click on the search field when I want to search on Google, since I do it constantly it is nice not to have to go to Google.com every single time. As far as Spybot/AdAware, well you will have to have those anyway no matter what browser you use. Then again if you are smart and know what your doing you won't get Spyware/Adware. The only spyware/adware I normally see on my PC are cookies which I could care less about. Maybe every 3 months something else might come up, but I *never* have any popup problems or anything of that kind.IE is right for me.P.S. I hate "tabbed" browsing. It's seriously annoying and inconvenient.
Steg said:
[quote]Some of the skins are very nice and they work well.[/quote]Heh - not with the latest release (v0.9) - they fudged up the skins handling completely - the dev forums recommend not using them atall as they are too buggy. Should be fixed soon I hope.[quote]P.S. I hate "tabbed" browsing. It's seriously annoying and inconvenient[/quote]I totally fail to see your point of view here - using Firefox and tabbed browsing i can have 8 webpages open and various other programs without having stupid numbers of windows open and i can view source in browser instead of having to use notepad or some other piece of software. With a bit of tweaking with extentions you can set it up to open new tabs on a middle-click on a link etc and then set up keyboard shortcuts for switching tabs.So one big plus point is Firefox is ALOT more customisable.Another great thing about Firefox is the amount of space you get - the functionality of the Google toolbar is included without taking up extra space and the whole interface seems more streamlined. The 'search with google' box is next to the address bar and it also supports searching the current page and any other search engine you could name.A large problem is see is the lack of ActiveX support in any of the browsers that are not IE. This affects the Fileplanet download system for one. All other major plugins (Flash, shockwave, java, antileech etc) have versions for Firefox and they are easy to find so that does not pose a problem.Personally, security does not matter a jot to me - i dont use a virus scanner or a firewall (other than the NAT firewall in my router). Since i dropped IE ive stopped using Adaware and seen no ill-effects & I have quite sucsessfully never got a virus. IE's annoying habit of allowing scripts to install software, modifiy the registry or (most annoying and commonly) add favorites without consent was annoying but firefox has solved that - admitedly most websites dont cause these problems but its nice to be secure in the sense.Intrestingly what origionally atrracted me to Firefox was the name.....Steg
abc said:
I personally love firefox. I have been using it since version .2, and before that, Opera. Tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, pop-up blocking, integrated google search (ctrl+k), and less spyware (not all spyware comes form pr0n) are the highlites of Firefox. The only negative I've noticed from using Firefox has been when at someone else's house I try to middle click links and use mouse gestures in IE. ESPECIALLY when you try it multiple times with the person wondering what in the heck you are doing; not good when trying to fix their computer. "I know what I'm doing, honest"
---agissi--- said:
Im all Rick right here.. not a single prob. I have the google toolbar, which means easy search at my finger tips, it blocks popups, and dont roll in the pr0n spyware.All this patch stuff.. I've never noticed, maybe its just because they take 2secs to dl and install, and dont come all at once?I've never had a virus/trojan/worm,etc, I have a hardware firewall, so I assume thats whats keeping the badies away.Plus, the other browsers just arent as good [i]in my eye[/i].And I too, dont like tabbed browsing...I guess its just because Im used to having my windows :)
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by ---agissi--- [/i]And I too, dont like tabbed browsing...I guess its just because Im used to having my windows :) [/quote] I am 100% fine with having Windows open myself. If your browsing 15 different pages at once then it's your own fault. I dont ever have more than two IE windows open.And all these.. "advantages" to alternate browsers.. just excuses to follow the cliche. I have yet to see one valid point in the past year from anyone about an alternative browser such as Firefox or Opera. I've used them all and gave them a chance. I've used them all several times for the sake of proving my point, only to switch back to IE each time.
Steg said:
Perhaps is just one of those things some geeks do.Just to take a completely different tack and go slighty off topic - Linux is another example of the same thing - I, personally, cannot see the bonus of using Linux - it plays games slower, I have to rebuild the kernal just so I can compile graphics card drivers (nvidia drivers for 2.6.x - FC2 comes with 2.5.x or something) and any program that I want to run either can't be run or needs emulating! Where is the advantage in that? Windows does everything I want it to without having to fight it. But many people here will swear blind the Linux is the only OS the use.Steg
LNCPapa said:
I'm with Acid on this discussion also - I will continue using IE for some time because none of the current browsers work nearly as well for me. I do, however, open 15 IE windows at a time - but I have no problems navigating them :) IE with the Google Toolbar and Adaware + Spybot - that's all for me.
Nic said:
Well, I don't like IE at all, but not because of security problems, but because it isn't very user friendly and doesn't support tabbed browsing (amoungst other things). If you have lots of windows open in a tabbed browser, you can close all of them at once by closing the main browser window. Mainly, tabbed windows are good for doing research on the web, where you might want to click on links, but still be able to view the starting page. Opera has a ton of very useful features that work well, and the only reason to use IE is because some other windows software requires IE in order to function. It does take some time to get used to using alternative browsers, but once you have tried it, then going back to IE is painfull to say the least. I only use it when I have to, not that its bad, but because there are better browsers out there, notably Opera 7.51.
Per Hansson said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by acidosmosis [/i]As far as Spybot/AdAware, well you will have to have those anyway no matter what browser you use. Then again if you are smart and know what your doing you won't get Spyware/Adware. The only spyware/adware I normally see on my PC are cookies which I could care less about. Maybe every 3 months something else might come up, but I *never* have any popup problems or anything of that kind.IE is right for me.P.S. I hate "tabbed" browsing. It's seriously annoying and inconvenient. [/quote]Here I have just got to comment on something I did in school a month or two ago.I do surf some pron I'll admit that but this time it was just to proove my point...I searched for porn via google using IE and happily clicked all links that came up... I did this for about 30 minutes.Then we scanned that computer with Ad-aware, it found 30 running spyware processes and over 300 spyware files!!!Next I did the same thing with Opera, I visited the same sites etc (well, as close as I could..) After 30 minutes of porn surfing we closed Opera and did a new scan with AD-Aware, the only thing it found this time where 4 cookies!So I fail to see your point here Acid that regardless of what browser you use you have to have AD-Aware installed...P.S when I do porn surf I don't blindly search on google, I have my "ad-free" sites ;-)P.S.S; tabbed browsing is great. but that is just because just like you say I'm "crazy" and often have over 20 windows open... (I usually let them download and then read them when I have disconnected since I'm on dialup but I do the same on broadband...)Let me give you a good point to use Opera; when it crashes (or your computer) it remembers what windows you had open and asks you if you want to open them all up again, now that is a time saver when the power goes out and you just had to have all those links in your next-day work ;-)It also remembers what windows you just closed so you can simply go to Window > closed and get it back... No need to bang your head against the wall...I could go on and on but I have better things to do now, downloading... "family pictures" :P
acidosmosis said:
Still none of those points bring anything to the table that would make me want to switch browsers.
BrownPaper said:
The tabbed browsing feature is nice if you have multiple links from one central page that you want to visit. For example, imagine I wanted to do some research on heart disease. I find a page on what is heart disease. I find a page about hypertension. Then another page about cholesterol. Finally a site on the treatment of heart disease.Now assume that there are two more links for the page on heart disease, hypertension, cholesterol, and treatment. That is a whole lot of backtracking to be doing with the first central site without tabbed browsing. Tabbed browsing is good when things get fairly complicated so that you can organize things without forgetting where the heck you were before.Having alternative software around is good even if you do use IE. Thanks to alternative browsers, IE finally had some incentive to include pop-up blocking to try to not allow marketshare to Opera, Firefox, etc. These alternative software push Microsoft to create better software and not bask in its wealth lazily. Microsoft is trying to squash Linux now because a lot more people and businesses view Linux as a little bit more secure than Windows than before. Even if you do not use alternative software, understand that it plays a part in Microsoft trying a bit harder to crush the competition with "better" products.
me(who else?) said:
I just switched to Firefox, it took 5 minutes (to get extensions, etc.) to set up, and now I have all the benefits (tabbed browsing, etc.) with smaller risk of hacking/spyware. I also find the google search much easier and convenient than an entire taskbar to preform the same functions.
Godataloss said:
Just a quick poll, but when was the last time anyone suffered any adverse effects from spyware? I hope we all know that after a session of surfing ' questionable' websites it is importat to wipe down with a vigorous session of spybot, AVG and your favorite source of absolution. That said, I dl'ed firefox (~5mb in 10 seconds so why the hell not) and Ill give it a go, but at the first sigh of a help file it goes right in the trash. Who has the time?
Godataloss said:
other than the way the cursor inverts the text as you type, it seems fine to me- maybe a tick faster than IE even
Julio said:
Security issues aside... it will always come down to the fact that there is no program that will make everyone happy. I see some of you trying to convince Acid of moving away from IE, in the other hand he seems to be happy with it.In my case it took a while until I found the advantage of moving to Firefox which is now my #1 browser of choice along with IE that I keep using only for more trusted sites. In any case although I won't add up much to the discussion, I wanted to say that if I were you I'd stop trying to convince people that much once you have warned them once... instead they will probably learn the hard way or in the best of the cases remain happy the way they are, even when they are missing something better.
acidosmosis said:
I've been using IE for about 8+ years with no problems :-). Heck, I'll even download Firefox again right now and MyIE and give them a go again, just for boredom sake. It won't last a week though :-P.Spyware is no big deal. Besides when I scan I only find cookies and on the rare occasion something else which usually comes from AOL or another source.Users fall under two categorys. One, you are a techie and most likely know how to stay away from dangerous things on the web, maybe have a firewall/AV, etc. Two, your a normal user. Now, a normal user is not going to switch browsers, because they usually do not know about them, dont want to hassle with installing them and definately won't deal with setting one up or dealing with the hassles of incompatibility on sites designed for IE (which is MOST sites).A techie doesn't need to change browsers because he/she can most likely prevent himself from getting in to trouble. In either case, there is no need for an alternative browser other than wanting to use those "added features" you all talk about. In my case I could care less about those features.It will be a very long time before the majority of the public aren't using Windows anymore, so it will be an even longer time before the majority of users aren't using IE.
Godataloss said:
Been using firefox for all of an hour now and I F*ing hate what it does to the cursor- windows looks a-la '98
SNGX1275 said:
I have to take a little different route than what you guys have commented above, and I'll probably repeat some points above in the process.I have no idea why you guys like FireFox, I've tried it 3 times now (once before it had an installer, once after, and then this RC for .9) and it comes out of the box as an inferior product to Opera 7.23 and Opera 7.5. First it looks better stock, second it has functions that can be added or removed to toolbars that Firefox requires extensions for, third it does all the stuff google toolbar does built in, and I could continue.Also I recently started to use its IRC capabilities (in 7.5) its not near as good as mIRC or even X-Chat but it does its job and once again does it in tabs saving screen space, I don't know how you guys running windows can have your taskbar on the bottom of your screen anyway but thats a whole new debate.I guess the only reason that I can think of for using firefox over Opera is the banner ad included in Opera if you don't have a registered version. If thats it well then I guess its at least an excuse...
---agissi--- said:
I have atleast 50 windows open, and still would rather have that then tabs.. And the whole spyware/adware thing is not a big deal at all, you just gotta be smart and stay away from the stuff.
acidosmosis said:
Note: Most people probably don't realize you can minimize MIRC to the system tray by holding shift and clicking the minimize button. This is also true for other applications which support it. I know that isn't a big deal but I thought I would mention that since were in the subject of "taking up taskbar space".
Phantasm66 said:
Probably due to lazy web development, a lot of sites look crappy in anything but IE because IE is all they are tested in.
Didou said:
Well I for one wouldn't have gotten that "talking lady ad" this morning if I wasn't using Avant ( IE front-end ).:dead:& BTW surfing pRon sites isn't the only way to get Adware, in fact you get adware more often when you install programs that come bundled with it ( DivX Pro anyone ? ). But still, just by surfing, IE is more likely to get adware installed ( sometimes without even asking you ) then with Opera/Firefox/Lynx.;)I always run AdAware/Spybot after installing programs, not after surfing sessions.
DigitAlex said:
I'd like to say that LYNX OWNZ ALL YOUR BASE :D :D And most of the people do very bad web development because they don't even give a chance to that wonderful browser to display their website, losing all the geeeky audience out there :dead: Seriously, rename the Firefox icon and change it to the blue E and I bet your grandmother won't even notice :D
Unregistered said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by acidosmosis [/i]I've been using IE for about 8+ years with no problems :-). [/quote] So you've been using IE since 1996? Interesting. Because as far as I know, at that time you only had a choice of Lynx, Mosaic and Netscape (which were around version 1.1 or so afaicr). And there was no IE bundled with windows, nor available for download that year. But that might explain why you're so happy with it, since you must be getting the "special" IE from MS without all the problems we have to deal wtih.Sorry, just had to comment on that. Carry on using IE for all I care. As long as if you're ever going to create a website you'll at least stick to the html spec so the rest of us can use it too, and don't use the laughable FrontPage shiet!
Mictlantecuhtli said:
That's a bit incorrect. IE 1.0 was released in 1995.[url=http://www.microsoft.com/windows/WinHistoryIE.mspx
Internet Explorer History[/url]Most of the forum members should already know my opinion about IE so I won't bother discussing this.
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by DigitAlex [/i]I'd like to say that LYNX OWNZ ALL YOUR BASE :D :D And most of the people do very bad web development because they don't even give a chance to that wonderful browser to display their website, losing all the geeeky audience out there :dead: Seriously, rename the Firefox icon and change it to the blue E and I bet your grandmother won't even notice :D [/quote] I did that to my parents computer a while back :-P.
poertner_1274 said:
That is what I did to my computer at home for my wife and friends, cause they had no idea what ht red O was for.
---agissi--- said:
I dont know Mic's .02 on IE.. and I'd like to know - Does he use it?
Mictlantecuhtli said:
No, he does not, as it's not available for Linux / BeOS.
Unregistered said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Didou [/i]So you prefer to install IE + 153 patches + AdAware + Spybot + pop-up blocker + tabbed-browsing extension instead of installing one browser that has it all ?I see your point, at least I think I do.;) [/quote] Yep, Didlo. I use IE6 also. Firfox is Ok. But Opera sux.
Nic said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Unregistered [/i]Yep, Didlo. I use IE6 also. Firfox is Ok. But Opera sux. [/quote] Maybe you could share with us exactly what it is you don't like about Opera. Its no good saying something sux without qualifying why you believe it sux. Maybe you don't have a reason for disliking Opera, and are simply opinionated for the sake of it. :confused:
vassil3427 said:
I happen to find Ie to be just fine, I wont be getting rid of it anytime soon....
Rick said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Unregistered [/i]So you've been using IE since 1996? Interesting. Because as far as I know, at that time you only had a choice of Lynx, Mosaic and Netscape (which were around version 1.1 or so afaicr). [/quote]Incorrect. Browser history:[url]http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/history/brows
rs.htm[/url][size=1] Windows IE 1.0 Final Aug. 1995 2.0 Final Nov. 1995 3.0 Final Aug. 1996 4.0 Final Oct. 1997 5.0 Final Mar. 1999 5.5 Final Jul. 2000 6.0 Final Oct. 2001 Macintosh IE 2.0 Final Apr. 1996 2.1 Final Sep. 1996 3.0 Final Jan. 1997 4.0 Final Jan. 1998 4.5 Final Jan. 1999 5.0 Final Mar. 2000 Mosaic 1.0 Final Nov 1993 2.0 Final Nov. 1995 2.1 Final Jan. 1996 3.0 Final Jan. 1997 Mosaic Ends Netscape 1.0 Final Dec 1994 1.1 Final Apr. 1995 2.0 Final Mar. 1996 3.0 Final Aug. 1996 4.0 Final Jun. 1997 4.5 Final Oct. 1998 6.0 Final Nov. 2000 7.0 Final Aug. 2002 Opera 2.1 Final Dec. 1996 3.0 Final Dec. 1997 3.5 Final Nov. 1998 4.0 Final Jun. 2000 5.0 Final Dec. 2000 6.0 Final Nov. 2001 7.0 Final Jan. 2003 [quote]Sorry, just had to comment on that. Carry on using IE for all I care. As long as if you're ever going to create a website you'll at least stick to the html spec so the rest of us can use it too, and don't use the laughable FrontPage shiet! [/quote] Agreed. Frontpage sucks. And everyone should adhere to HTML standards so everyone can use the web the way it was meant to be. :)
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]Agreed. Frontpage sucks. And everyone should adhere to HTML standards so everyone can use the web the way it was meant to be. :) [/quote] Yes. This [url]http://www.globalusaonline.com/[/url] is what happens when you use Frontpage.Haha. :-)
Nic said:
acid: Isn't that the website you designed for your last employer?
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Nic [/i]acid: Isn't that the website you designed for your last employer? [/quote] Nope. I had created a design to replace it, but "things" hit the fan and I no longer worked there.
---agissi--- said:
this also happens when you use frontpage[url]http://www.atlantisglassdesign.com/[/url]
SNGX1275 said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by Unregistered [/i]Yep, Didlo. I use IE6 also. Firfox is Ok. But Opera sux. [/quote] Yes, I too would like to see why Opera "sux". In my above post I asked why and gave reasons why I thought Opera was superior to firefox and IE.
Nic said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by ---agissi--- [/i]this also happens when you use frontpage[url]http://www.atlantisglassdesign.com/[/url] [/quote] Nothing happened? [Shows up fine in Opera 7.5]Frontpage doesn't generate standard html, if you use some of its features. Microsoft really should get it's act together regarding complying with open standards. They are getting better at this with newer product lines, but they do still have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, in the past they have been more concerned with making things powerful, simple, and easy to use for novice users, rather than sticking to standards.If a website looks crap, then blame the designer, not the tools.
TS | Thomas said:
Been using Firefox myself now for at least 6 months. At the very least for me on my connection Firefox is noticeably faster with most webpages I view. By clicking the load only pictures for originating website option I can take loading of, say, Warp2search to 22seconds, with IE this would take over 1 minute to load (As it has to download all the ad images).
stelex said:
I am web designer and one thing I hate with passion is when I see the web site that states "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" or "...with Netscape" or even worse "Best viewed with 800x600"What am I supposed to do when I see the one with "best viewed with NS4" ? Go quickly to netscape.com and download their browser just to see the crap on that website ? When I create web site it's "Best viewed with web browser" and the "computer monitor" Anything else is rubbish. The problem today is that MS is so big and has huge percentage of internet users so web developers don't care. Not all, but majority of lower end. And Microsoft has gone a lot it's own way ignoring the html conventions. Why ? Why the dog licks his own balls ? Exactly - because he can!Some people are flaming FrontPage. OK, let me put this straight, FP98 was absolute crap, total disaster. FP 2000 was ... hmmmm .... getting better, FP 2002 (xp) is pretty alright and FP2003 is fantastic. (**conditions apply)Conditions ? Yes, there is one thing you must do - never use FP themes and other MS specific stuff and you'll never have problems with FP (2002/2003)When I develop web site it is being tested on: Mozilla, IE, Opera, Firefox and Safari. If there is problem in one of those browsers - there is a problem with me. For day to day browsing I use Mozilla 1.6 ( since yesterday it's 1.7) I also use Firefox since version 0.8 but more like experimental. I totally abandoned IE use about 18 months ago. The only time I use it is when I test the web site in development. Mozilla is far superior browser to IE. The email client is exactly the same (superior). Someone mentioned that tabbed browsing is nightmare (!) Well, this is how I see it. When I need to find something on internet I open google and search for it. I usually get the page with heaps of links. Now, in IE, I would need to go to each of these and go back to google for the next one. Or, I would need to right click / open in new window. Then I have to click on the google one in task bar to get back so I can request the new one. In Mozilla, it goes this way: once I get the google result, I middle-click on each of the resulting links and the page loads in the new tab in background. So I just go click-click -click ... 20 times if needs to be, and it's all in one window in different tabs. If I need to close the tab I just middle click it and it's gone. If I need to close all tabs, I right click one tab and select "Close all other tabs" While for someone this might be nightmare, for me this is probably the best thing I ever experienced in web browser. The other thing is pop up blocking, natively built in, no extra bars, no crap whatsoever, just plainly perfect.
Nic said:
Well said stelex, you're right on the money, and even took the time to qualify your opinion. I couldn't have said it better myself :=).
acidosmosis said:
[quote][i]Originally posted by stelex [/i]I am web designer and one thing I hate with passion is when I see the web site that states "Best viewed with Internet Explorer" or "...with Netscape" or even worse "Best viewed with 800x600"[/quote] Uh. 800x600 has nothing to do with this discussion. Websites are designed for 800x600 because the majority of users resolution is 800x600. You are NOT a good web designer at all if you don't understand that you design for resolutions that the MAJORITY uses and design your page so that the MAJORITY of users can view it correctly. Who cares what the "correct" way to do html is. A functional page is MORE money for the company. If a page doesnt work correctly the viewer will NOT come back most likely. To ignore this is stupidity and the sign of a bad web designer. Edit: And you must take into account of the fact that MOST, probably 98% of shoppers online are using IE. There is no way around this fact. Those who know enough about technicalities to use another browser aren't as much of a concern as the general public is.It's one thing to know how to do "correct" html, but it's other to blatanly ignore the fact that some correct html might not work in the most used browser (IE).It really annoys me when people come in here and talk about how web designers should design a page to live up to html standards. People that do that don't know what they are talking about when it comes down to it and are bad designers and I sure wouldnt hire anyone to create a webpage with that attitude. A webpage had better work well for the majority of it's viewers or you would be out of a job if I was the one hiring you.Frontpage, is in fact crap. No matter HOW you look at it. Take a look at frontpage html with Notepad and you will immediately know why if you are a good designer.Your all ignoring the facts because you are blind. Just because you decide that FireFox or Opera are "better" doesn't mean everyone else uses it or wants to. Pages SHOULD and NEED to be designed for the majority. If your too blind to see this than well, that is your problem, your downfall and you would be the one losing money, having the customer pissed at you, and this would be the reason you do not move up in the world as a web page designer.
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