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Phantasm66 · #1 03-04-2003

I've just finished reading an article here, written in the aftermath of the leak onto the Internet of the latest build of Longhorn - Longhorn Milestone 4.

In case you don't know, Longhorn is the code name for the next version of Windows, which will replace Windows XP.

Although it itself does not contain it, this latest build strongly hints at a new file system, which shall supercede NTFS as the file system for Windows. Called WinFS, this new file system "promises to do away with hierarchical storage altogether and remove the distinction between local and remote storage...."

Exactly how this might be implemented is still a mystery, but perhaps doing away with drive letters altogether, and instead using mount points as UNIX does might be on the cards. Windows 2000 and XP already have mount point technology, but doing "away with hierarchial storage altogether" smacks of even bigger changes than the loss of drive letters.

One opinion floating around is that in much the same way that Windows 98 included Internet Explorer integrated into the operating system in order to gain a competitive advantage over Netscape, Longhorn might integrate a next generation SQL server into the operating system, in order to gain an advantage over Microsoft's arch rival Oracle. This next generation SQL server could be integrated into the file system, a sort of SQLFS, if you like.

Longhorn will likely retain support for NTFS in much the same manner that legacy support for FAT32 and FAT16 is available in Windows 2000 and XP. Longhorn is also likely to include a number of other enhancements over Windows XP, in the areas of security, multimedia, etc, as well as an integrated download manager.

The latest Longhorn build is circulating on some dodgy IRC channels right now.

More here, and here.

warr · #2 03-04-2003

MS never bring surprised. only more craps to win over the fan boys.

Mictlantecuhtli · #3 03-05-2003

Quote:

From Longhorn Alpha Preview 2: Build 4008:
The Longhorn shell is the one area in build 4008 in which you can see steady improvements. My suspicion is that Microsoft is working slowly toward the inclusion in Longhorn of WinFS (Windows Future Storage), the new file system that's based on SQL Server "Yukon" technology. The goal is that the file system will abstract storage for the user, so we no longer need to worry about where data is stored. This change will provide two obvious improvements: First, it will be possible to search contextually ("Show me all of my vacation photos" rather than a search by file name, which is often pointless in the context of digital photos). Secondly, WinFS will unify all of today's disparate data stores. In the future, we won't need separate containers for email, corporate data, Word documents and other data files, and so on. If you search for "Paul Thurrott" in Longhorn, you will retrieve email I've sent to you, documents that contain my name, my Contacts listing, relevant photographs, music I like, and so forth, all in a single, fell swoop. Supposedly.

OK, that sounds wonderful. But WinFS isn't in Longhorn yet. What is there, in build 4008, are the earliest user interface-related steps to this future.

BeOS has had this kind of file system for years

iss · #4 03-05-2003

Quote:

BeOS has had this kind of file system for years

Maybe FS stands for "Freaking Stolen"

DigitAlex · #5 03-05-2003

If it comes about discussing what MS stoled from others, I doubt there will be much left ...

MS DOS was stolen, Win3.x and Win95 GUI was stolen (from Mac & Xerox), Excel was stolen, multi user simultaneous logon (XP) was stolen from Unix, mount points (2K/XP) were stolen from Unix
...

The true questionis : what was NOT stolen ???

warr · #6 03-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by DigitAlex
If it comes about discussing what MS stoled from others, I doubt there will be much left ...

MS DOS was stolen, Win3.x and Win95 GUI was stolen (from Mac & Xerox), Excel was stolen, multi user simultaneous logon (XP) was stolen from Unix, mount points (2K/XP) were stolen from Unix
...

The true questionis : what was NOT stolen ???

that is true.

they are success because they know how to assemble different parts together. and sell it again, then steve ballmer says "this is called innovation".

Phantasm66 · #7 03-05-2003

As many have noted, there's plenty that MS have stolen from others. And longhorn, like MANY OTHER WINDOWS OSes, will be just as much the thief.

Jade · #8 03-05-2003

Quote:

MS never bring surprised. only more craps to win over the fan boys.

I ran this through the Altavista translator but it still came out as gibberish. Anyone know what language it is?

Phantasm66 · #9 03-05-2003

warr · #10 03-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Jade
I ran this through the Altavista translator but it still came out as gibberish. Anyone know what language it is?

you should not come online.

keep watching your bbc or cnn.

Rick · #11 03-05-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by warr
you should not come online.

keep watching your bbc or cnn.

How... cryptic.

Phantasm66 · #12 03-06-2003

Quote:

Windows Longhorn leaks again
By John Lettice
Posted: 05/03/2003 at 14:14 GMT

A new build of Longhorn, Microsoft's follow-up to XP, has leaked, and although it's still an alpha, reports of increased stability make it sound almost worth stealing. Build 4008, also labelled Longhorn M4 Build, doesn't implement the new WinFS file system yet, as you'd expect, but has had a lot of cosmetic and semi-cosmetic work done it. Some of this gives indications of the kinds of functionality Microsoft client operating systems will have when WinFS does roll out.

There's a report and some useful screen shots over at BetaNews. The desktop shot shows something fairly similar to XP, with the addition of Sidebar over on the right, which is all slightly underwhelming. Further bells and whistles such as a task-based, 3D UI are said to be scheduled for inclusion in Longhorn, but we've heard this - the task-based UI, anyway - back in the days when XP/Whistler builds were leaking, and in the end it didn't happen. Sidebar currently seems to function largely as a taskbar/quick launch alternative, which we submit is really not what humanity needs right now. But there is something called Sideshow that Microsoft Research has been showing for a couple of years now, and this seems to us a concept more appropriate for a WinFS, .NET operating system. Says MSR "Sideshow provides regularly updated peripheral awareness of a broad range of information from virtually any accessible web site or database."

To expand on that slightly in the vernacular, the demo we saw two years ago used video quite heavily. It doesn't have to, but it's a good way to help people Get It. So, for example, one of the things you might have in it would be webcam footage of the traffic on your route home. So it (Sideshow, that is) is really a mechanism for anchoring a disparate bunch of stuff, local or network, you want to keep tabs on, which does seem to us to relate to the WinFS notion. You can get more information on Sideshow here. We submit this is a lot cooler than a taskbar, and we hope Sidebar gets to include at least some of it, and indeed that Longhorn stops looking like XP by the time it gets to beta.

As regards WinFS itself, Microsoft seems to be introducing the UI side of it with a view to rolling the file system in at a later date. BetaNews reports that it uses a 'virtual folder' approach, but that this is dependent on a background indexing system, which is heavy on resources. To us, this sounds regrettably like Microsoft getting up to its old tricks of throwing hardware at problems. You will also be able to use much more flexible search terms, but again, this is going to be heavily WinFS-dependent.

There's also something called a "breadcrumb bar," which is part of the drive to stop you worrying about where your stuff actually is that commenced with web style folders. In this case, you get a series of buttons to allow you to switch between stuff (trail of breadcrumbs, presumably), rather than the address bar. This sounds to us a little like what we'd call tabs, but it's possibly useful, although we still don't think it entirely prudent to ever stop worrying about where your stuff actually is.

Overall, the new build seems to consist largely of bells and whistles, as is so common with revs of Microsoft products, but in this case at least some of the cosmetics can be seen to have an underlying purpose over and above eye-candy, in that they're driven by, or related to, the switch to WinFS.

But here's a thought - given that the really big deal as regards WinFS is the server end rollout, first in Yukon, then as an add-on for Server 2003, then Blackcomb, to what extent is it necessary for it to be fitted to Longhorn in this rev? Maybe neat, yes, maybe holds out the prospect of a more stable and efficient OS, yes, but necessary?

It seems to us that, although Longhorn itself isn't due until second half of 2004 at the earliest, Microsoft has left itself the flexibility to put out some form of Yukon-enabled XP Second Edition. We're not saying it's going to, of course, but it could. ®

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/29593.html

Madhav Ramkumar · #13 03-10-2003

Winner is not who do different things, but do things differently

Rick · #14 03-10-2003

WinFS - Freaking slow.

Hopefully not..

dymepece · #15 04-30-2003

I do not agree with your opinions, but I do respect them.

Please feel free to PM me, PHATMAN5050, if you have a question about why I edited your post.

spun_1 · #16 04-30-2003

Cool post Phantasm.Had no idea. Thanks

Tarkus · #17 07-28-2003

WinFS really slowed down my system. It was the first thing I turned off. By the time I turned off all the things in Longhorn 4015 that slowed down the system....I was left with Windows 2000.

poertner_1274 · #18 07-28-2003

Well you have to remember it is still in beta. Things aren't going to run that smoothly right now.

And I don't think the release date is set for 2004, so you have a while until most of the bugs are taken out.

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