A War Thunder player leaked classified documents to show that an in-game tank's model...

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,863   +2,218
TechSpot Elite
Oh man, I almost spit pepsi when I saw that headline! Upon reading it, I'm in stitches! I can't remember the last time I saw something more hilarious on this site than this article! It's a tank FFS! It's not exactly a state-of-the-art fighting machine, it's a big mobile turret with more armour than five Roman legions put together. I seriously doubt that exposing an "invulnerability" is going to put anyone at risk, especially considering that nobody's going to war anytime soon.

If a former tank commander and tank instructor wasn't the least bit concerned about sharing this information, I don't think that anyone else should either. This is just another case of "Governments and their (mostly) useless secrets." and I seriously doubt that Mi5 is going to be sending a 00 agent to take him out.

Oh man, this is just too damn funny! I'm still laughing as I type this. Love it!
:heart_eyes::laughing::joy::heart_eyes::laughing::joy:(y) (Y)(y) (Y)(y) (Y)
 

gamerk2

Posts: 628   +546
One you loose air superiority it's pretty much game over regardless of what tank you have, that being said had the Iraqis kept them in the cities in ambush positions, it would have caused the coalition a lot of problems, much in the same way German tanks in WW2 did ambushes.
Oh, I agree completely. Air Power is the primary determinant in who wins traditional wars now. And yes, how Germany used it's tanks in the west toward the end of the war is exactly how you'd deal damage.
 

gamerk2

Posts: 628   +546
If a former tank commander and tank instructor wasn't the least bit concerned about sharing this information, I don't think that anyone else should either.
Not his decision to make.

That being said, at least in the US there has been a move toward declassifying information that doesn't need to be classified, in order to reduce the number of personnel with classified clearances (due to the focus on insider threats post-Snowden).
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,863   +2,218
TechSpot Elite
Not his decision to make.

That being said, at least in the US there has been a move toward declassifying information that doesn't need to be classified, in order to reduce the number of personnel with classified clearances (due to the focus on insider threats post-Snowden).
I don't know if you've noticed but the fact that I find this funny as all hell means that I'm not the least bit concerned. I honestly couldn't care less about this because it didn't expose a vulnerability and the UK isn't going to war with anyone. I'm actually a citizen of the UK (as well as Canada) and I literally do not care even one little bit about this. I think it's hilarious because of the lengths that this guy went to to prove a point online but as for who's decision it is to make... I'll never be able to care about it, at least not in this instance.

If it was something that exposed a vulnerability or weakness and so put people's lives in danger, THEN I'd care and I'd care a lot. However, even then, it would have no bearing whatsoever on "Whose decision it is to make" because governments routinely make horrible decisions and I feel even more unsafe if I know that a greater number of secrets are concentrated with possibly the most despicable examples of humankind in existence.

I also find the idea that countries like Russia and China DON'T already know everything about the Challenger II, Leopard II and Abrams tanks to be absurd anyway. The only people who have learnt anything new about this tank are members of the public. Like sure, China knows enough about something far more advanced and strategic like the F-35 to make a working clone of it:
d1a904f0-bc32-11ea-b64b-070a892763db_image_hires_064150.jpeg

but not a bloody tank?! Please tell me that you're joking! The only thing that China ended up with when they cloned the F-35 was the discovery that most aviation experts were correct. The F-35's design is so bad that China's PLAAF doesn't even want to use it. China inadvertently did all NATO countries (who hadn't already fallen for the lies about the F-35) a huge favour by exposing what a turkey it actually is. Nevertheless, this is still about a main battle tank and future wars are NOT going to be won on the ground. They'll be won in the air and on the water. All ground forces will do is occupy territory.

I still think that this is funny as hell and I'll never be able to bring myself to care about it, end of line. :heart_eyes: :laughing: :joy: :heart_eyes: :laughing: :joy:
 
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mbrowne5061

Posts: 1,949   +1,133
Russia's problem has *never* been engineering, but rather production and management.

Also, warm water ports. They just can't seem to take and hold onto one of those. Even the one they took in Crimea may eventually revert back to Ukraine, unless Russia can figure out how to supply it across the Kerch Strait - and even then, its still effectively 'landlocked' behind Istanbul unless Turkey leaves NATO.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 483   +414
I note that the war of 1812 was pushed entirely be conservatives in the south; the north flat out refused to send troops (hence why the invasion of Canada failed), and were close to outright succeeding over it before the US reached a negotiated settlement (that really did nothing except agree to have future meetings to discuss the issues raised during the war), then one a battle AFTER the war ended so conservatives could proclaim "victory".

If anything, the disagreement over the War of 1812 was a forewarning of things to come. The US has *never* been politically united for any length of time.

I note that the war of 1812 was pushed entirely be conservatives in the south; the north flat out refused to send troops (hence why the invasion of Canada failed), and were close to outright succeeding over it before the US reached a negotiated settlement (that really did nothing except agree to have future meetings to discuss the issues raised during the war), then one a battle AFTER the war ended so conservatives could proclaim "victory".

If anything, the disagreement over the War of 1812 was a forewarning of things to come. The US has *never* been politically united for any length of time.
While true,
It had nothing to do with conservatives versus liberals, New England area was not a fan of federalism and didn't want to commit militias to the war effort, kind of ironic considering the civil war, but when you simply reduce the war being fought solely on the basis "because of slavery" which it was not it was about states sovereignty versus federalists it ends up with and in this sense of yeah they never really agreed on much other than to disagree.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,767   +5,213
Βritshers involved. Check.
Refers to a UK piece of military equipment. Check.
Claims that UK built MBT is much more resilient than widely suspected. Check.
Leaks so-called classified docs to prove above claim. Check.

Verdict: Controlled leak by British Intelligence.

Dezinformatsiya.
Given that the MoD confirmed it was from the classified specs, IMO, what you state is true. Why on Earth would someone from MoD confirm the validity of a still classified document. I would have expected them to request it be taken down and neither confirm nor deny its validity. IMO, confirming the validity of a classified document amounts to a leak itself.
 

Austinturner

Posts: 316   +404
It's not about politics, it's what is obvious that is easily seen, there is no political debate, it's the reality.
It doesn’t matter if your statement is valid, US politics is not the topic of discussion and every time Americans start discussing US politics on any forum it turns into a toxic mess (have a look at the WCCF tech comment section for a complete wasteland with no sensible discussion). Just take it elsewhere
(Like reddit) and stop trying to bait your political opponents into arguments all over the internet.
 

Austinturner

Posts: 316   +404
I do note the A-10 doesn't do great against modern armor; there's a reason why they have to go into a steep dive in order to do damage. The Avenger is an awesome weapon, but really doesn't have the necessary power to deal with modern armor design. I do feel the US does need a dedicated "tank buster" attack aircraft, but the A-10 has outlived it's design.
I think its still extremely potent because an armoured division has tonnes of important but less protected vehicles like AFVs, APCs and support vehicles that the canon can mince up very quickly and cheaply and A-10 still has hard points for guided anti-tank missiles for dealing with modern MBTs.

I don’t disagree that it will need replacement, but I don’t think it has lost its effectiveness today.
 

Rayneofpayne

Posts: 483   +414
It doesn’t matter if your statement is valid, US politics is not the topic of discussion and every time Americans start discussing US politics on any forum it turns into a toxic mess (have a look at the WCCF tech comment section for a complete wasteland with no sensible discussion). Just take it elsewhere
(Like reddit) and stop trying to bait your political opponents into arguments all over the internet.
Well wccftech in general is a toxic mess, people act like 5 year olds.
Don't have political opponents, politics is about the perception of reality, I am discussing the reality, I am not bating anyone, just the facts. Also the door was open to that discussion.
I do agree Americans are a problem when discussing politics these days, it's either team blue or team red with actually no academic discussion with little fact between both sides, they operate on "rules for thee not for me" and " my way is the only right way" and that is not a real or proper academic debate, I see your point but the key is to have a proper discussion based in reality not poppycock fantasies.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,689   +6,469
I don't know if you've noticed but the fact that I find this funny as all hell means that I'm not the least bit concerned. I honestly couldn't care less about this because it didn't expose a vulnerability and the UK isn't going to war with anyone. I'm actually a citizen of the UK (as well as Canada) and I literally do not care even one little bit about this. I think it's hilarious because of the lengths that this guy went to to prove a point online but as for who's decision it is to make... I'll never be able to care about it, at least not in this instance.

If it was something that exposed a vulnerability or weakness and so put people's lives in danger, THEN I'd care and I'd care a lot. However, even then, it would have no bearing whatsoever on "Whose decision it is to make" because governments routinely make horrible decisions and I feel even more unsafe if I know that a greater number of secrets are concentrated with possibly the most despicable examples of humankind in existence.

I also find the idea that countries like Russia and China DON'T already know everything about the Challenger II, Leopard II and Abrams tanks to be absurd anyway. The only people who have learnt anything new about this tank are members of the public. Like sure, China knows enough about something far more advanced and strategic like the F-35 to make a working clone of it:
d1a904f0-bc32-11ea-b64b-070a892763db_image_hires_064150.jpeg

but not a bloody tank?! Please tell me that you're joking! The only thing that China ended up with when they cloned the F-35 was the discovery that most aviation experts were correct. The F-35's design is so bad that China doesn't even want to use it. China inadvertently did all NATO countries (who hadn't already fallen for the lies about the F-35) a huge favour by exposing what a turkey it actually is. Nevertheless, this is still about a main battle tank and future wars are NOT going to be won on the ground. They'll be won in the air and on the water. All ground forces will do is occupy territory.

I still think that this is funny as hell and I'll never be able to bring myself to care about it, end of line. :heart_eyes: :laughing: :joy: :heart_eyes: :laughing: :joy:
Dude, that's harsh.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 1,863   +2,218
TechSpot Elite
Dude, that's harsh.
But true nonetheless. People have to grow up a bit and stop being afraid of everything.

Russia and China can be scary to some countries but overall, the scariest country on Earth is the USA. The military power that the USA can bring to bear makes China and Russia's militaries combined look about as powerful as a boy scout troupe. People who live in NATO countries (I am one of these) have literally nothing to fear from non-NATO countries.

The media tries time and again to stoke the flames of fear because fear makes people pay attention and the more they pay attention to the media, the more valuable the advertising spaces are. It's all about the media increasing profits and it's having a seriously detrimental effect on the Western World.

An attack upon a NATO nation would just guarantee that the leader of the country that attacked wouldn't be there for the next year. It's just not worth it and they know it so who cares if they know that a tank is not vulnerable in a certain place? It just makes me laugh that anyone would give a rat's posterior about this.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 17,689   +6,469
No doubt the argument only arose because the Yank forum contingent couldn't handle the fact that their beloved M1 Abrams are so obviously inferior to the Challenger 2...😉

..which they are, of course.
Are you blokes still sailing those highly flammable aluminum (tinfoil) destroyers? You know like the HMS Sheffield, which even a French designed missile was able to sink with one shot.. :rolleyes: