AMD's upcoming 3D V-Cache shown to improve bandwidth with minimal latency increase

umbala

Posts: 603   +1,007
So sure, you can spend hundreds of dollars more for an inferior AMD product. But all you’re doing is lining some execs pocket.
Hundreds more for an inferior product? Yeah, ok. I know you're hung up on current CPU prices, but last I checked Intel motherboards are still way overpriced compared to AMD, so overall you're paying more for Intel, same as always. And how exactly are AMD processors inferior to Intel? Because some website you like shows Intel CPUs getting 1-2% better frame rate in some stupid FPS game?

If Intel is such a great company and so ahead of the game, then why are they buying silicon from TSMC? Smells like desperation to me. Oh and they spent how many years trying to move down to 10nm and STILL having issues to this day. So don't talk about "inferior" products unless you're willing to pull your head out of your *** first and actually do some research.

The *ONLY* reason Intel CPU prices are somewhat decent now is because of AMDs push. And Intel is worried about AMD, that is why they lowered their prices to compete. And I predict that Intel will soon be selling their CPUs at a loss just to try and hurt AMD. Yes, Intel can afford to do that and AMD can't, because Intel spent decades playing unfairly.

Remind me again how many billions in fines Intel had to pay AMD after the crap they pulled in the 90's? Back when Intel was basically paying off big corporate costumers to not use any parts from the competition.

In the end, AMD is charging whatever people are willing to pay, so you can whine about it all you want. They know they got a good product and no shilling about Intel will ever change that.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 600   +1,110
By AMD's own admission, V-cache is expensive and best results were seen with the 8 core. They also said they will only add V-cache to more chips if requested by customers, meaning their claims of up to 15% more fps is closer to single digits more times than not. That means don't hold your breath.

AMD is going to have to do more than allow Zen 3 support on 300 series boards once ADL desktops and laptops hit stores and OEMs and RPL potentially launching before Zen 4.

5600X is $30 more than 12600K in Canada. That's gotta come down.
I love how flawed and uninformed you conclusion is there.

1. The logic does not compute there at all, how much will be requested by customers =/= lower fps increase, because that's what you imply based on your logic.

2. It's not up to 15%, but on average +15% over Zen3. It's actually up to 40%!
If you wanna diss, at least know the facts and correct numbers.
2022-01-03-image-42.jpg


The only thing we agree on is the pricing, it should be lowered.
 

Irata

Posts: 2,104   +3,633
I wouldn't call them tiny when compared against Intel, if we look at the market cap. 165,30 mrd. USD vs 225,97 mrd. USD.

Sure you can look at the market cap but that won‘t pay for R&D, engineers, wafers.

You could also look at number of employees, free cash, budgets (marketing, R&D….).

Essentially it comes down to a available resources.
 
Right now Alder Lake is both faster and cheaper than Ryzen 5000 so there is really very little reason to be buying AMD. I’m concerned that the only part getting this tech will be the 5800X which is already $450. So does that mean AMD are about to launch an 8 core 5800X3D for around $500? And what if it’s still worse than the 12700K?

Remember the good old days when AMD was actually cheaper than Intel? They really are laughing at consumers these days. No quad cores or cheap SKUs, $300 for a 6 core CPU. $450 for an 8 core. Who the hell do they think they are!?
May 2016 Release prices
Core i7-6850K 6 cores - $617
Core i7-6900K 8 cores - $1089
Core i7-6950X 10 cores - $1723

In 2017 Ryzen entered the game
You will never see an i7 priced more than $400 again... (except for a couple of extreme editions no more than $600)

The pricing of those i7 is disgusting!!!
I'll say thanks AMD for saving us from a monopoly, I hope they manage to stay competitive.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,597   +1,421
Hundreds more for an inferior product? Yeah, ok. I know you're hung up on current CPU prices, but last I checked Intel motherboards are still way overpriced compared to AMD, so overall you're paying more for Intel, same as always. And how exactly are AMD processors inferior to Intel? Because some website you like shows Intel CPUs getting 1-2% better frame rate in some stupid FPS game?

If Intel is such a great company and so ahead of the game, then why are they buying silicon from TSMC? Smells like desperation to me. Oh and they spent how many years trying to move down to 10nm and STILL having issues to this day. So don't talk about "inferior" products unless you're willing to pull your head out of your *** first and actually do some research.

The *ONLY* reason Intel CPU prices are somewhat decent now is because of AMDs push. And Intel is worried about AMD, that is why they lowered their prices to compete. And I predict that Intel will soon be selling their CPUs at a loss just to try and hurt AMD. Yes, Intel can afford to do that and AMD can't, because Intel spent decades playing unfairly.

Remind me again how many billions in fines Intel had to pay AMD after the crap they pulled in the 90's? Back when Intel was basically paying off big corporate costumers to not use any parts from the competition.

In the end, AMD is charging whatever people are willing to pay, so you can whine about it all you want. They know they got a good product and no shilling about Intel will ever change that.
You seem hugely upset that I pointed out the cold hard fact that AMDs products are currently slower and more expensive. Don’t worry kid it won’t stay that way.

You must be new here. But what happens is that these companies release new products and change prices all the time. Neither is better than the other, both companies AMD and Intel are nothing but multi billion dollar companies who only care about money.
 

poohbear

Posts: 690   +620
Right now Alder Lake is both faster and cheaper than Ryzen 5000 so there is really very little reason to be buying AMD. I’m concerned that the only part getting this tech will be the 5800X which is already $450. So does that mean AMD are about to launch an 8 core 5800X3D for around $500? And what if it’s still worse than the 12700K?

Remember the good old days when AMD was actually cheaper than Intel? They really are laughing at consumers these days. No quad cores or cheap SKUs, $300 for a 6 core CPU. $450 for an 8 core. Who the hell do they think they are!?

Let the fanboys take note, this just goes to show u that if the underdog ever becomes the top dog, which AMD did, they'd be charging accordingly for their products.
 

BadThad

Posts: 1,033   +1,186
IMO this is cheating in the absence of actually updating the CPU architecture to increase IPC. Any processor will see the benefit of increasing L2/L3 cache. It's an easy "fix" to obtain a performance boost without doing the hard work of making the CPU more efficient and powerful.
 
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dnous

Posts: 46   +45
It's probably a mix of AMD making the most out of dies that aren't good enough for enterprise environments and just testing out the tech for consumer platforms. The increase in IPC is enough to make it interesting enough and keep AMD in the news until the Ryzen 7000 CPUs are released around Q3.

The performance crown for gaming is currently with Intel, but they're barely holding on to it and most likely not for long.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 731   +526
You seem hugely upset that I pointed out the cold hard fact that AMDs products are currently slower and more expensive. Don’t worry kid it won’t stay that way.

You must be new here. But what happens is that these companies release new products and change prices all the time. Neither is better than the other, both companies AMD and Intel are nothing but multi billion dollar companies who only care about money.


No!
Most people are pointing out the obvious to you, but it is something you are avoiding.... in that Alder Laker requires a new platform....!

You are the one whom seems upset, that current AM4 owners can just plop in the FASTEST Gaming CPU and get another 3+ years out of their 3 year old rig...! It is almost Feb 2022, People buying a new mobo right now, are pretty much dumb, because AM5 is just around the corner. That is why a 5800X3D is so seductive for older machines...

& also why you are ranting through colored glasses...
 

Dimitrios

Posts: 1,058   +863
Right now Alder Lake is both faster and cheaper than Ryzen 5000 so there is really very little reason to be buying AMD. I’m concerned that the only part getting this tech will be the 5800X which is already $450. So does that mean AMD are about to launch an 8 core 5800X3D for around $500? And what if it’s still worse than the 12700K?

Remember the good old days when AMD was actually cheaper than Intel? They really are laughing at consumers these days. No quad cores or cheap SKUs, $300 for a 6 core CPU. $450 for an 8 core. Who the hell do they think they are!?

Why are you fixated on AMD making a little bit of profit? You keep complaining AMD is the problem they are evil and have no soul. AMD is some sort of EVIL MONSTER etc. I'm reading your comments and oddly you have beef with AMD. You keep repeating the same thing using emotion to enable this beef. If you sold cars how would you feel with consumers saying, " I don't like SAUSAGEMEAT guy selling cars because he's making a profit and judging where every penny should go, SAUSAGEMEAT needs to hand me a deal on a car and he needs to follow my imaginary chart." Then running and pointing claiming AMD is a big phony like that FAMILY GUY TV episode.

Let it go, I know your mad and you want it your way but life doesn't work like that.
 
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Vanderlinde

Posts: 138   +93
It's probably a mix of AMD making the most out of dies that aren't good enough for enterprise environments and just testing out the tech for consumer platforms. The increase in IPC is enough to make it interesting enough and keep AMD in the news until the Ryzen 7000 CPUs are released around Q3.

The performance crown for gaming is currently with Intel, but they're barely holding on to it and most likely not for long.

Exactly. At the end of the day Ryzen's are just discarded Epyc's or Threadrippers. They dont have or make a seperate line; they just test their wafers and highlight the Epyc's, Ryzen's and what more. Some parts of the silicon do fully work, some parts dont.

The EPYC or Threadripper has 3D Cache as well, even up to 768MB. And AMD could in theory create a 2 CCD with 2x 3D Cache and ramp up another tank of a CPU for consumers. I think the 5800x is a very high-end CPU. Due to the lower clocks to keep within the TDP it proberly will have some OC'ing headroom as well.

People judge so fast these days. All certified engineers with university degree's from Harverd these days on the forums.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,597   +1,421
No!
Most people are pointing out the obvious to you, but it is something you are avoiding.... in that Alder Laker requires a new platform....!

You are the one whom seems upset, that current AM4 owners can just plop in the FASTEST Gaming CPU and get another 3+ years out of their 3 year old rig...! It is almost Feb 2022, People buying a new mobo right now, are pretty much dumb, because AM5 is just around the corner. That is why a 5800X3D is so seductive for older machines...

& also why you are ranting through colored glasses...
My glasses are clear. You are ranting through deep red glasses. Sure if you bought the wrong CPU for your B450 board and you need an upgrade already then yes buy Ryzen 5000. However this is a niche scenario. All other new buyers should buy the cheaper and faster Alderlake because it’s cheaper and faster.

Why is this insanely simple concept so difficult for you to grasp? CPUs are a commodity, you should buy what’s best for your application for the least money. Right now that’s Intel. This changes quite a lot so don’t worry, your beloved AMD will likely be back on top again someday.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 2,074   +1,654
Why are you fixated on AMD making a little bit of profit? You keep complaining AMD is the problem they are evil and have no soul. AMD is some sort of EVIL MONSTER etc. I'm reading your comments and oddly you have beef with AMD. You keep repeating the same thing using emotion to enable this beef. If you sold cars how would you feel with consumers saying, " I don't like SAUSAGEMEAT guy selling cars because he's making a profit and judging where every penny should go, SAUSAGEMEAT needs to hand me a deal on a car and he needs to follow my imaginary chart." Then running and pointing claiming AMD is a big phony like that FAMILY GUY TV episode.

Let it go, I know your mad and you want it your way but life doesn't work like that.
Why are you upset that someone is calling out AMDs price rises?

Everyones entitled to a bit of profit but that doesnt mean that people cant complain about prices. And AMDs prices have skyrocketed with the 5000 series. I should know, I paid for a 5800X, it was way way more expensive than the 8 core 3000 series parts. At the time it was ok because the 5000 series was clearly faster than the competition which was Intel 10th gen. But now Intels 12th gen is out and its cheaper and faster than AMDs 5000 series so AMD need to reduce their pricing to be a good buy. If I was buying today id get a 12700K over the 5800X.
 
Right now Alder Lake is both faster and cheaper than Ryzen 5000 so there is really very little reason to be buying AMD. I’m concerned that the only part getting this tech will be the 5800X which is already $450. So does that mean AMD are about to launch an 8 core 5800X3D for around $500? And what if it’s still worse than the 12700K?

Remember the good old days when AMD was actually cheaper than Intel? They really are laughing at consumers these days. No quad cores or cheap SKUs, $300 for a 6 core CPU. $450 for an 8 core. Who the hell do they think they are!?

You do realize 5800x is 329.99 sometimes 300 dollars, https://www.microcenter.com/product...ore-am4-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included, 20 dollars cheaper than the 12700k right now and you do not need to buy an expensive heatsink as its tdp 12700k turbos up to 190w and averages on stress around 150ws where the 5800x turbos around 95-120w in stress tests, you can get a mobo for the 5800x b450 for as cheap as 70-80 bucks easily and usually combo cpu and mobo 20 dollar discount, intels absolute lowest is about 200 dollars and good luck overclocking on that thing, for half the price on amd you can easily get a good overclockable matx or itx board even and we have not even gone to the memory issue I can get great 16gb memory for 60-70 bucks and bdie for 120-140 bucks the absolute cheapest 16gb ddr5 set is is about 200 dollars, so when you are talking cost literally you are going to spend at least 50 dollars more for intel to get an aio which is unnecessary for amd, at least 100 dollars more or mobo and at leasgt another 60-130 more for memory and then cpu is 20 dollars more so you are talking about a 270 dollar increase to go intel at minimum for a small increase in performance this 5800x3d probably will cost less than that difference and have better performance lol
 
Right now Alder Lake is both faster and cheaper than Ryzen 5000 so there is really very little reason to be buying AMD. I’m concerned that the only part getting this tech will be the 5800X which is already $450. So does that mean AMD are about to launch an 8 core 5800X3D for around $500? And what if it’s still worse than the 12700K?

Remember the good old days when AMD was actually cheaper than Intel? They really are laughing at consumers these days. No quad cores or cheap SKUs, $300 for a 6 core CPU. $450 for an 8 core. Who the hell do they think they are!?

also fyi amd cpus have not been msrp even the day they came out so stop comparing non msrp prices for intel against msrp against amd lol
 

Gezzer

Posts: 258   +132
As a gamer I'm waiting to see how it actually performs with real world 3rd person testing. Right now it's nothing more than promises hiding behind smoke and mirrors IMHO. It might be a major leap forward, or a dud. While I've always rooted for AMD and wish them nothing but success, it has to be admitted that they've produced more of the latter after the Athlon 64 x2's release than the former. So well Zen has got them back on the right track it doesn't erase the stumbles they had before it's release, and the potential for more of them as well.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,427   +2,409
Hundreds more for an inferior product? Yeah, ok. I know you're hung up on current CPU prices, but last I checked Intel motherboards are still way overpriced compared to AMD, so overall you're paying more for Intel, same as always. And how exactly are AMD processors inferior to Intel? Because some website you like shows Intel CPUs getting 1-2% better frame rate in some stupid FPS game?

If Intel is such a great company and so ahead of the game, then why are they buying silicon from TSMC? Smells like desperation to me. Oh and they spent how many years trying to move down to 10nm and STILL having issues to this day. So don't talk about "inferior" products unless you're willing to pull your head out of your *** first and actually do some research.

The *ONLY* reason Intel CPU prices are somewhat decent now is because of AMDs push. And Intel is worried about AMD, that is why they lowered their prices to compete. And I predict that Intel will soon be selling their CPUs at a loss just to try and hurt AMD. Yes, Intel can afford to do that and AMD can't, because Intel spent decades playing unfairly.

Remind me again how many billions in fines Intel had to pay AMD after the crap they pulled in the 90's? Back when Intel was basically paying off big corporate costumers to not use any parts from the competition.

In the end, AMD is charging whatever people are willing to pay, so you can whine about it all you want. They know they got a good product and no shilling about Intel will ever change that.
This made me laugh. Thank you.
It's the same script I've read since the AthlonXP days. Glad to see it hasn't changed one bit. People that don't do research are so focused on these events for some reason. AMD can't do wrong and Intel can't do right. What a boring tech life we live...

How is AMD better off on the fab front when they went rom having fabs to selling them off, still taking orders from said fabs, to primarily using a fab they don't own and never have?! Let me guess. That was Intel's fault, and whatever AMD can slap their name on is a miracle product and everyone should buy it, because AMD had a rough childhood???

No. Stop. Please stop. If people still think like that they are not ones that should be talking about what they think competition should look like.
 
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Dimitrios

Posts: 1,058   +863
IMO this is cheating in the absence of actually updating the CPU architecture to increase IPC. Any processor will see the benefit of increasing L2/L3 cache. It's an easy "fix" to obtain a performance boost without doing the hard work of making the CPU more efficient and powerful.

Not calling you out but perfect timing. INTEL admitting and doing the same.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 2,074   +1,654
also fyi amd cpus have not been msrp even the day they came out so stop comparing non msrp prices for intel against msrp against amd lol
We can only compare MSRPs though as sale prices can change day to day.

Although looking at the current pricing Alder lake is still cheaper than Ryzen 5000, even with the slightly more expensive motherboards. The 12400 is already available under MSRP making it really quite amazing value. The 12600K is cheaper than a 5600X. The 12700K is about the same price as a 5800X.

Im sorry but I agree with sausagemeat. The clear best option right now is Alder lake. And I say this as someone who bought Ryzen 5000 last year. Alder lake is faster and cheaper, youd had to be insane to pick Ryzen 5000 over that.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 2,074   +1,654
This made me laugh. Thank you.
It's the same script I've read since the AthlonXP days. Glad to see it hasn't changed one bit. People that don't do research are so focused on these events for some reason. AMD can't do wrong and Intel can't do right. What a boring tech life we live...

How is AMD better off on the fab front when they went rom having fabs to selling them off, still taking orders from said fabs, to primarily using a fab they don't own and never have?! Let me guess. That was Intel's fault, and whatever AMD can slap their name on is a miracle product and everyone should buy it, because AMD had a rough childhood???

No. Stop. Please stop. If people still think like that they are not ones that should be talking about what they think competition should look like.
For most of us enthusiasts things are great right now, this is the competition we always wanted. Hopefully AMD will follow up and beat Intel with Ryzen 6000 then after that Intel can come back again. However we need to be aware that some people (like many in this thread) have a preference to a particular brand and this sort of market can be very distressing to them. These people are just lashing out because they are upset because their favourite brand is no longer on top.

Really when it comes to fabs AMD wouldnt have had any success without TSMC, TSMC may be better quality silicon than Intel 10nm, I dont know. But one thing is for sure, without TSMC AMD would be nowhere.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 731   +526
My glasses are clear. You are ranting through deep red glasses. Sure if you bought the wrong CPU for your B450 board and you need an upgrade already then yes buy Ryzen 5000. However this is a niche scenario. All other new buyers should buy the cheaper and faster Alderlake because it’s cheaper and faster.

Why is this insanely simple concept so difficult for you to grasp? CPUs are a commodity, you should buy what’s best for your application for the least money. Right now that’s Intel. This changes quite a lot so don’t worry, your beloved AMD will likely be back on top again someday.

It is not me ranting, it is you.

Again, you fail to understand someone with a 3-year old AM4 Rig thats rock'n an older 2600X, can now plop down a 5850x3d (fastest Gaming CPU in the world).... and continue gaming on the same AM4 rig for another 3-years...!

Lastly and what other are noting is that NOBODY is building a new rig for these 3d-cache rigs. Nobody is building anything right now, because there are no GPU to go with the CPUs. That is why waiting just 5 more months is a great idea.

Stop being mad at the longevity of AM4 socket.
 

Makste

Posts: 153   +106
Waiting for actual product benchmarks on a Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Fingers crossed. I want to see how the technology evolves
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 159   +121
Uhm interesting. New options to buy for when I will want to upgrade my 2600x... not yet not yet. I'm fine for now.