AMD's Zen 4-based Ryzen 6000 CPUs will probably be limited to 16 cores

[midian182]

Rumor mill: AMD’s Zen 4 microarchitecture isn’t due to arrive until the end of next year, but rumors and speculation have been circulating for a while. The latest claim is that the Ryzen 6000 processors, reportedly codenamed Raphael, will max out at 16 cores.

Hardware leaker ExecutableFix tweeted the news yesterday. If true, it contradicts previous rumors of AMD adding a third chiplet to Zen 4, which would have increased the core count to 24. But it seems we’ll have to make do with “just” sixteen. That’s more than what Intel offers, and while team blue’s upcoming Alder Lake-S will have 16 cores, they’re a mix of 8 high-performance and 8 efficiency cores.

16 cores it is for Raphael 😇

— ExecutableFix (@ExecuFix) July 13, 2021

We’re expecting several significant changes with the Zen 4-based Ryzen 6000 chips, reportedly based on TSMC’s 5nm fabrication process. They will feature an AM5 socket that switches from AMD’s usual pin grid array (PGA) design to the same land grid array (LGA) design favored by Intel, though the chip itself is expected to retain the same 40mm x 40mm size as those used in the AM4 socket. The good news is that current AM4 cooling setups will likely work with AM5 through a conversion kit.

We also expect to see support for dual-channel DDR5 memory and PCIe 5.0 in Zen 4, along with four extra PCIe 4.0 lanes. Power-wise, it’s said reach a maximum TDP of 120W—Zen 3 peaks at 105W—though there are rumors of at least one SKU hitting 170W.

Raphael 🥰
- up to 16 Cores
- up to 170 W
- 5 nm

— Patrick Schur (@patrickschur_) July 13, 2021

Things are looking rosy for AMD right now. The company at Computex showed off its new 3D chiplet technology that can triple a processor’s L3 cache to a total of 192MB, offering an average of 15 percent better gaming performance at 1080p.

One piece of less-welcome news comes from the most recent Steam survey. After months of chipping away at Intel’s lead in the CPU space, AMD lost ground in June when its user share fell to under 30%.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/90416-amd-zen-4-based-ryzen-6000-cpus-could.html

 

[theruck]

Welcome back Intel, the AMD promises and under deliveries did not last long - as expected

 

[R00sT3R]

Whilst its true that Alder Lake will be 8c, it will have 24 threads, not 16.

8 'big cores' with Hyper Threading (16) + 8 'small cores' without Hyper Threading..Hence 24 threads.

Of course, how well that will work is the big unknown.

 

[NightAntilli]

I will only say this....

Don't expect SMT to be limited to two threads per core...

 

[Kosmoz]

Welcome back Intel, the AMD promises and under deliveries did not last long - as expected

What under deliveries? Have you been living on a different planet in the last 3 years?

They managed to deliver every single time what they said they would and a few times, like with RDNA 2 and Zen3 they actually over-deliverd...

The amount of ignorance and fainboi blindness these days is incommensurable... bleh.

 

[Peter Farkas]

I wonder when we will see ARM based gaming CPUs in the desktop segment.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

What under deliveries? Have you been living on a different planet in the last 3 years?

They managed to deliver every single time what they said they would and a few times, like with RDNA 2 and Zen3 they actually over-deliverd...

The amount of ignorance and fainboi blindness these days is incommensurable... bleh.

People are just big mad that AMD isnt bothering to add another 8 useless cores onto a platform that already offers 16 cores to a market that usually only needs 6, 8 at most. They will claim this is as bad as intel only offering quad cores (because we need MOAR COARS ALL THE TIME) and ignore the performance difference between the core quad and haswell, or zen 1,2, and 3. They'll also ignore how software that actually can make use of 16 cores is often bottlenecked by dual channel RAM, hence why threadripper exists.

But no, AMD only offering +29% per generation is TOTALLY the same as kaby lake literally being the same as skylake.

 

[theruck]

What under deliveries? Have you been living on a different planet in the last 3 years?

They managed to deliver every single time what they said they would and a few times, like with RDNA 2 and Zen3 they actually over-deliverd...

The amount of ignorance and fainboi blindness these days is incommensurable... bleh.

it’s taken AMD about six months to produce sufficient supply of Zen 3 CPUs to meet market demand.

The one exception appears to be the United States. While the Ryzen 5 5600X is in stock, and the 5800X is even sold at a small discount, Ryzen 9 parts are still difficult to come by. Given stock levels in other countries look good and supply there is meeting demand, it shouldn’t be too long until the same situation is seen in the States as well.

We still aren't back to a position where last-gen AMD processors are sold at a discount. Parts like the Ryzen 5 3600and Ryzen 7 2700X remain at their launch MSRPs which isn’t a very attractive proposition in the current market, especially compared to what Intel are offering.

 

[Wereweeb]

I will only say this....

Don't expect SMT to be limited to two threads per core...

AMD experimented with this, and didn't think it was worth it. I doubt they'll change their mind about that this soon.

 

[Wereweeb]

it’s taken AMD about six months to produce sufficient supply of Zen 3 CPUs to meet market demand.

The one exception appears to be the United States. While the Ryzen 5 5600X is in stock, and the 5800X is even sold at a small discount, Ryzen 9 parts are still difficult to come by. Given stock levels in other countries look good and supply there is meeting demand, it shouldn’t be too long until the same situation is seen in the States as well.

We still aren't back to a position where last-gen AMD processors are sold at a discount. Parts like the Ryzen 5 3600and Ryzen 7 2700X remain at their launch MSRPs which isn’t a very attractive proposition in the current market, especially compared to what Intel are offering.

It's almost like they don't have dedicated fabs, and almost like they are a much smaller company than Intel, with less resources (Including money). And they're still more capable than Intel at making CPU's.

Being an Intel fanboy in 2021 is cringe.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I don't really understand how this is news because it's not really significant to anyone except for Intel fanboys looking for a reason to complain about AMD. Ryzen 9 has always been either 12 or 16 cores with 24 or 32 threads, respectively. I'm sure that people will be just fine with 16 cores and 32 threads for top-level consumer-grade CPUs since the vast majority of programs, including productivity programs won't even use all of them. Anyone who REALLY needs more than 16 cores would probably have been looking at ThreadRipper anyway so it doesn't affect them.

I just wonder how many fools there are who bought the 16-core Ryzen 9 CPUs who have at least half of their cores sitting at idle at all times just so they could boast about having 16 cores.

I think that AMD's being smart here. By keeping the core limit on consumer-grade Ryzen at 16, they're able to produce more total CPUs to satisfy demand. That would go a long way to ensure that there's enough CPUs to go around. It's clear that AMD has learnt the lessons taught by the silicon shortage and it's also clear that anyone whining about this hasn't.

 

[Avro Arrow]

It's almost like they don't have dedicated fabs, and almost like they are a much smaller company than Intel, with less resources (Including money). And they're still more capable than Intel at making CPU's.

I know, eh? These are great points.

Being an Intel fanboy in 2021 is cringe.

I think that being an Intel fanboy was always cringe.

 

[theruck]

It's almost like they don't have dedicated fabs, and almost like they are a much smaller company than Intel, with less resources (Including money). And they're still more capable than Intel at making CPU's.

Being an Intel fanboy in 2021 is cringe.

I am not a fan but when I tried to build an AMD system with the new cpus I came to incompatibility (system did not light up on power perhaps due to bios incompatibility so had to return both) and unavailability only (lile no cpus of interest on stock anywhere)and it was with premium price tag over Intel so thanks AMD I tried you failed

 

[Avro Arrow]

Whilst its true that Alder Lake will be 8c, it will have 24 threads, not 16.

8 'big cores' with Hyper Threading (16) + 8 'small cores' without Hyper Threading..Hence 24 threads.

I don't know about saying it has eight cores because, to me, a CPU with 8 big cores and 8 small cores isn't an octocore CPU, it's a hexadecacore CPU. Sixteen physical cores is still sixteen physical cores, with or without HyperThreading.

 

[hahahanoobs]

it’s taken AMD about six months to produce sufficient supply of Zen 3 CPUs to meet market demand.

The one exception appears to be the United States. While the Ryzen 5 5600X is in stock, and the 5800X is even sold at a small discount, Ryzen 9 parts are still difficult to come by. Given stock levels in other countries look good and supply there is meeting demand, it shouldn’t be too long until the same situation is seen in the States as well.

We still aren't back to a position where last-gen AMD processors are sold at a discount. Parts like the Ryzen 5 3600and Ryzen 7 2700X remain at their launch MSRPs which isn’t a very attractive proposition in the current market, especially compared to what Intel are offering.

Last I heard AMD wasn't taking any more orders for the 3600. In Canada the 2600 is $10 more than the 2700X, but the 2700X isn't in stock anywhere. Looks like it's Zen 3 and the other Zen 2 miscreants now.

 

[hahahanoobs]

I know, eh? These are great points.

I think that being an Intel fanboy was always cringe.

All fanboys are cringe.

 

[Mjswooosh]

Welcome back Intel, the AMD promises and under deliveries did not last long - as expected

Low effort troll post: 1/10.

 

[maxxcool7421]

Welcome back Intel, the AMD promises and under deliveries did not last long - as expected

Your just mad you can't buy one....

 

[Squid Surprise]

I am not a fan but when I tried to build an AMD system with the new cpus I came to incompatibility (system did not light up on power perhaps due to bios incompatibility so had to return both) and unavailability only (lile no cpus of interest on stock anywhere)and it was with premium price tag over Intel so thanks AMD I tried you failed

It looks like YOU tried AMD and YOU failed...

 

[Irata]

Welcome back Intel, the AMD promises and under deliveries did not last long - as expected

Can we please try to not let the same plague that hit Videocardz‘ forums affect Techspot ?

Besides being completely illogical - why would Intel be back if AMD under promised ? - this is a zero effort troll post that actually subtracts value from the discussion.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I am not a fan but when I tried to build an AMD system with the new cpus I came to incompatibility (system did not light up on power perhaps due to bios incompatibility so had to return both) and unavailability only (lile no cpus of interest on stock anywhere)and it was with premium price tag over Intel so thanks AMD I tried you failed

It's quite obvious that you tried using a Ryzen CPU whose generation didn't match the generation of the motherboard but was one or two generations newer. Even though an X370 motherboard is compatible with a Ryzen 2000 or 3000 CPU, it is imperative to update the BIOS beforehand or the motherboard won't recognise the CPU (which makes perfect sense since the newer CPU didn't exist when the motherboard was made). The BIOS update has to be done with a CPU that matches the gen of the motherboard.

You see, unlike Intel, AMD didn't require you to buy a new motherboard pretty much every time you bought a new CPU. To make this work however, the BIOS of the older motherboard had to recognise the newer CPU. Expecting a motherboard to recognise a CPU that didn't exist until years after the motherboard was made is a boneheaded error and not AMD's fault. This is like trying to fit a SkyLake CPU into a socket 775 motherboard and blaming Intel for the fact that it doesn't work. It's just pathetic, embarrassing and stupid to do so.

This information was literally EVERYWHERE because AMD made sure to put the word out. Tech sites made sure to talk about this AT LENGTH and every motherboard manufacturer made sure to show on their list which BIOS VERSION was required for the newest Ryzen CPUs to function properly. It was also clearly stated that a Ryzen 1000-series CPU would be needed to do the BIOS update.

The only way you didn't know about this was either that you live under a rock or you're an Intel fanboy that didn't bother reading any articles about AMD hardware.

The failure was COMPLETELY yours, not AMD's...so it would be more fair to say that AMD tried and YOU failed.

 

[theruck]

It's quite obvious that you tried using a Ryzen CPU whose generation didn't match the generation of the motherboard but was one or two generations newer. Even though an X370 motherboard is compatible with a Ryzen 2000 or 3000 CPU, it is imperative to update the BIOS beforehand or the motherboard won't recognise the CPU (which makes perfect sense since the newer CPU didn't exist when the motherboard was made). The BIOS update has to be done with a CPU that matches the gen of the motherboard.
You see, unlike Intel, AMD didn't require you to buy a new motherboard pretty much every time you bought a new CPU. To make this work however, the BIOS of the older motherboard had to recognise the newer CPU. Expecting a motherboard to recognise a CPU that didn't exist until years after the motherboard was made is a boneheaded error and not AMD's fault.

This information was literally EVERYWHERE because AMD made sure to put the word out. Tech sites made sure to talk about this AT LENGTH and every motherboard manufacturer made sure to show on their list which BIOS VERSION was required for the newest Ryzen CPUs to function properly. It was also clearly stated that a Ryzen 1000-series CPU would be needed to do the BIOS update.

The only way you didn't know about this was either that you live under a rock or you're an Intel fanboy that didn't bother reading any articles about AMD hardware.

The failure was COMPLETELY yours, not AMD's..

well I knew that the moment I started it, but as a customer I expect that if I buy some new components they should work and there is nothing I could do about it just to return. is it amds fault? no and yes at the same time. its under their control as a manufacturer not under distributors or
customers control. and yes the result for the customer is the same as with Intel - you need to buy new gen mobo with new gen cpu if you are building a new pc

 

[Kosmoz]

it’s taken AMD about six months to produce sufficient supply of Zen 3 CPUs to meet market demand.

The one exception appears to be the United States. While the Ryzen 5 5600X is in stock, and the 5800X is even sold at a small discount, Ryzen 9 parts are still difficult to come by. Given stock levels in other countries look good and supply there is meeting demand, it shouldn’t be too long until the same situation is seen in the States as well.

We still aren't back to a position where last-gen AMD processors are sold at a discount. Parts like the Ryzen 5 3600and Ryzen 7 2700X remain at their launch MSRPs which isn’t a very attractive proposition in the current market, especially compared to what Intel are offering.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EU had Zen3 for sale all these months. if not all EU at least the majority.

We had every single month Zen3 and no, they were not all the tiers non-stop, but in 1 month's time you could actually buy even the hardest ones to get. Most of them were in rotation...

US is not the entire world. AMD on the CPU side was much better, now on the GPU side there is a point to be made for almost no availability until last month...

 

[theruck]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EU had Zen3 for sale all these months. if not all EU at least the majority.

We had every single month Zen3 and no, they were not all the tiers non-stop, but in 1 month's time you could actually buy even the hardest ones to get. Most of them were in rotation...

US is not the entire world. AMD on the CPU side was much better, now on the GPU side there is a point to be made for almost no availability until last month...

sorry to burst your bubble but I am in EU and even availability of ryzen 3 1300x and athlon GE cpus was 0 for many months since 2020 and it is not even zen3 arch so my underdelivery point is real

 

[Avro Arrow]

I wonder when we will see ARM based gaming CPUs in the desktop segment.

It won't be for a LOOOOONG time because x86 software is completely entrenched in everything. ARM CPUs are capable of better efficiency but that's where it ends. ARM CPUs don't support a lot of the functions that make x85 CPUs so fast. This is why they only became popular with phones and tablets. I honestly don't think that ARM CPUs will ever displace x86 because one of the most important pillars of the PC world is backwards-compatibility. ARM will never be able to offer that because they're a completely different architecture.