An army of Indian workers earning $4 a day are putting together your next iPhone

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
@nanoguy Who said,

"Foxconn has been subject to a lot of criticism as of late for questionable practices involving children at its China factories as well as difficult working conditions. Bloomberg says a visit to Foxconn's India factories has revealed "no visible sign of sweat-shop conditions" and that workers are mostly complaining about the repetitive nature of their job. Still, the pay is a paltry $130 per month which keeps these workers just above the extreme poverty line. Chances are the next iPhone you buy will be made by Indian women that have few other opportunities to choose from"
.

Nice to see Indians getting some honest work. Maybe it will keep them off our phones claiming they're from Microsoft and telling us our computers are infected.

Or will the women work for Foxconn, while the men still man their posts at India's scam call centers?
 

koblongata

TS Addict
Is the article suggesting moving manufacturing back to US as per Trump's direction?
You need to learn what the Consumer Price Index is.

Their local economy would explode if we paid them more than they were worth to asemble these things.

The reason we go to Asia for manual labor is because it's cheap. Almost 5 Billion of them (Asia/SE Asia) vs. 350 Million of us (Americans) <40 Million Canadians.
I understand why it happens and I'm not expecting them to get paid $100 a day but like the article said it only puts them just above extreme poverty line, I'm sure Foxconn can afford to pay them $10 a day, those iPhones get sold for a $1000 man
Foxconn has a margin of less than 5%, sometimes they make things at loss to keep the production line running.

Apple has a margin more than 50%. The richest company with most cash in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

Theinsanegamer

TS Evangelist
Just more typical hypocritical actions from Big Tech, claiming they are against all of these horrible "capitalists" and how we need socialism, while employing slave labor and engaging in hypercapitalist practices.

And the Marxist loving hippies will continue to buy Apple in droves while chanting about how they all need to be paid for being NEETs microblogging about their triggers and screaming how hiring someone based on their ability to do a job instead of their skin color is racist.
 
That is disgusting, paying someone $4 a day, capitalism is very broken......
Wrong. First, capitalism is what allowed China and India to lift over a billion people out of extreme poverty in the first place. China's market capitalist reforms under Deng Xiaoping in 1979 is what allowed it to increase its GDP per capita purchasing power parity from barely $500.00 (in 2017 dollars) to almost $15,000 today (in 2017 dollars). India's own economy started its strong growth thanks to its market reforms of the 1990s that moved away from its historically state controlled industries.

Second, read about purchasing power parities (when you adjust for the area's cost of living). India's PPP index is at 18x (compared to the US baseline at 1x). This means $1.00 USD goes nearly 18 times further in India due to the lower cost of living/cost of goods/etc. Adjusted for PPP, $4 a day is the equivalent of $72 a day - not great, but still a livable income. https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-ppp.htm
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

p51d007

TS Evangelist
The other reason they are moving to India, besides getting around trade barriers is CHEAPER labor. It's how it works. Go back to the late 60's...you couldn't buy a lot of things that didn't have "Made in Japan" stamped all over them. People would avoid a lot of things with that on the back. Then, the Japanese started raising their labor rates, and companies moved to South Korea. Then, the Koreans wanted more money, so they moved to China. With China, it's a little different since their "comrades" aren't free, they can't demand higher wages without the risk of being shot, so to speak. But, their labor rates have been increasing to fatten up the Communist government in China who has ambitions of taking over the entire pacific (building island out of nothing). That, and the trade dispute and now the corporations are moving to another 3rd world up and coming nation, India. Once the labor rates rise their, they will find somewhere else to set up shop. Vietnam, Cambodia already manufacture some things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: loki1944

Gypsygib

TS Enthusiast
That is disgusting, paying someone $4 a day, capitalism is very broken......
It certainly is, but you have to take into account cost of living differences. It's possible that's a good job in the particular region where they live, doubtful, but possible. Maybe the average income is only $50 US a month and most jobs are dangerous electronics recycling or some other crappy/dangerous job.

Not defending it, just entertaining the possibility that the job doesn't suck as much as it seems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

fluffydestroyer

TS Booster
I don't know if it was like that in China but 4$ an hour and you get a 1000$ phone ? I wonder if they built those phones here in the US with a competent salary which should or would be higher than 15$ an hour or so... What would be the priceof that phone, triple, quadruple ? Did anyone do the math on this ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
I don't know if it was like that in China but 4$ an hour and you get a 1000$ phone ? I wonder if they built those phones here in the US with a competent salary which should or would be higher than 15$ an hour or so... What would be the priceof that phone, triple, quadruple ? Did anyone do the math on this ?
It’s $4 a day... not hour.... and as MANY people have already posted, you have to factor cost of living in.... $4 in India is closer to $72 for the US....

And we have been exploiting cheap labour on this planet since the dawn of civilization... why should it end now?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

Adi6293

TS Maniac
Wrong. First, capitalism is what allowed China and India to lift over a billion people out of extreme poverty in the first place. China's market capitalist reforms under Deng Xiaoping in 1979 is what allowed it to increase its GDP per capita purchasing power parity from barely $500.00 (in 2017 dollars) to almost $15,000 today (in 2017 dollars). India's own economy started its strong growth thanks to its market reforms of the 1990s that moved away from its historically state controlled industries.

Second, read about purchasing power parities (when you adjust for the area's cost of living). India's PPP index is at 18x (compared to the US baseline at 1x). This means $1.00 USD goes nearly 18 times further in India due to the lower cost of living/cost of goods/etc. Adjusted for PPP, $4 a day is the equivalent of $72 a day - not great, but still a livable income. https://data.oecd.org/conversion/purchasing-power-parities-ppp.htm
Ok so China and India and getting lifted out of poverty but people in USA and Europe going into poverty. There is not enough jobs for everyone, they simply took jobs from "expensive" workers and gave it to "slave workers" Capitalism doesn't work for everyone, one has to lose so somebody else can gain ;-)
 

fluffydestroyer

TS Booster
It’s $4 a day... not hour.... and as MANY people have already posted, you have to factor cost of living in.... $4 in India is closer to $72 for the US....

And we have been exploiting cheap labour on this planet since the dawn of civilization... why should it end now?
under the current circumstances, that would be highly unlikely to happen. Hell, China tried to get democracy so they can have more power for the people but nope..it all went downhill fast.
 

BossyNeighbor

TS Rookie
That is disgusting, paying someone $4 a day, capitalism is very broken......
In those countries I assume its somewhat a livable wage different currencies have more purchasing power in their respective countries. Just the trade rate is worse.. actually working in a factory as semi skilled labor is more desirable than jobs in agriculture which involve back breaking labr . Still US is falling behind on manufacturing for everything automotive/electronic related and dont see it returning back soon. These are jobs American works can do but companies dont want to pay $15-20 wage for work that can be done by domestic workers. I assume most of the production process is heavily automated for testing, just minor human intervention for assembly and testing. Apple's R&D costs most likely dwarf their manufacturing cost, if it was done in the US price of Apple products would 2x or 3x. Still the somewhat grey ethical area of Apple's sweat shot conditions doesnt seem to stop consumers from desiring and buying them .
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

TempleOrion

TS Enthusiast
Just more typical hypocritical actions from Big Tech, claiming they are against all of these horrible "capitalists" and how we need socialism, while employing slave labor and engaging in hypercapitalist practices.

And the Marxist loving hippies will continue to buy Apple in droves while chanting about how they all need to be paid for being NEETs microblogging about their triggers and screaming how hiring someone based on their ability to do a job instead of their skin color is racist.
Bizarre ranting (as usual) LOL. Apparently the most profitable and largest companies in the world are saying we need socialism! Must have missed it on the news (or was it on Breitbart?)!

Yours must be a parody account but you shouldn't really bother tbh - rabid right wing zealots just damn themselves whenever they spew BS, no need to add extra lunacy on top.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charles Olson

TempleOrion

TS Enthusiast
Ok so China and India and getting lifted out of poverty but people in USA and Europe going into poverty. There is not enough jobs for everyone, they simply took jobs from "expensive" workers and gave it to "slave workers" Capitalism doesn't work for everyone, one has to lose so somebody else can gain ;-)
Err no, it's not a zero-sum game. You and I in the so-called "developed world" benefit the most from globalisation by getting new products cheaper, lowering inflation and raising our standard of living. The global corporations make more profit as they are asked to do by their shareholders, and pay more tax (sometimes)...

OTOH Those whose labour we exploit for those gains benefit far less, by an order of magnitude. Capital will always flow to wherever the profits can be made. Companies don't belong to nations and they are not obligated to give jobs to anybody; they have no mandate to do so.

There will always be losers on both 'sides' but if there's an overall gain, then that's what counts. The 'developed world' needs to train up its workers for higher skilled jobs and encourage innovation and creativity for its better educated workforce. At least, that's the idea. The problem is, education and training is falling behind in the complacent 'West' and soaring ahead in nations that used to be considered less developed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charles Olson
Ok so China and India and getting lifted out of poverty but people in USA and Europe going into poverty. There is not enough jobs for everyone, they simply took jobs from "expensive" workers and gave it to "slave workers" Capitalism doesn't work for everyone, one has to lose so somebody else can gain ;-)
No. Overall, more people are getting wealthier than they are getting poorer in both developed nations such as the US and in developing nations too.

The US GDP per capita adjusted for PPP has been increasing steadily for decades - this means overall, Americans have been getting wealthier even after adjusting for inflation and rising living costs. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita-ppp
In fact, the middle class is shrinking because more people are moving up rather than moving down. More people became high income rather than become low income. According to this study, in 2016, ~28% of household are now high income households (income of >100k in 2016 dollars) vs 30% that are lower income households (<35k in 2016 dollars). Compare this to the year 1977, when ~8% of households were high income while ~39% were low income.
http://www.aei.org/publication/yes-the-us-middle-class-is-shrinking-but-its-because-americans-are-moving-up-and-no-americans-are-not-struggling-to-afford-a-home/

Really, those lost jobs you're talking about were mostly lower paying manual labor and blue collar jobs. The US and other developed nations have moved away from an industrial economy that relies primarily on manufacturing and transitioned into a service and tech/information based economy. The US may have lost assembly line jobs, but it has created much higher paying STEM and high skilled service jobs such as computer programming, expanded its entertainment industry worldwide, expanded its academia, etc. People and students from all around the world come to the US and pay money to be educated in its universities. Hollywood movies make blockbusters that sell well in almost every major country in the world, creating plenty of jobs in the US. The world's largest companies are now American tech companies such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc - creating lots and lots of high paying jobs.

Capitalism doesn't work for everyone, one has to lose so somebody else can gain ;-)
Nope. Overall, more people are now wealthier as new wealth is being created and created faster than population growth. Capitalism is not a zero sum game where there has to be 1 loser for every 1 winner - instead, it's a game where the majority of the people can win.

So capitalism may not work for "everyone 100% of the time" but capitalism works for the majority of people the majority of the time.
 

loki1944

TS Maniac
Ok so China and India and getting lifted out of poverty but people in USA and Europe going into poverty. There is not enough jobs for everyone, they simply took jobs from "expensive" workers and gave it to "slave workers" Capitalism doesn't work for everyone, one has to lose so somebody else can gain ;-)
LOL. No. Unless you are disabled (for which there are alternate funds); not having a job in the US is on Y-O-U. You may not get your dream job, but you can get a job. You might move or revise your spending to make it work, but there are limitless opportunities for work. The first step to success is to stop whining and get a job, whether it's as a garbage man, cook, waiter, overseas contractor, soldier-whatever.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
LOL. No. Unless you are disabled (for which there are alternate funds); not having a job in the US is on Y-O-U. You may not get your dream job, but you can get a job. You might move or revise your spending to make it work, but there are limitless opportunities for work. The first step to success is to stop whining and get a job, whether it's as a garbage man, cook, waiter, overseas contractor, soldier-whatever.
Here's the problem with a fairly sizable portion of the "American work force", they found out long ago that you can make well over 4 dollars a day, without "getting a job", by selling crack cocaine and heroin.. And the rest of the "American moths", seem to be developing a greater and greater propensity, for flying too close to their "flame"

Then too, getting a job or getting into college in America, has seemingly become dependent upon what you say, and how wide you open your mouth on social media. (Not that I think that's entirely a bad thing)..Now if only YouTube would also throttle some of the liberal bullsh!t.
 
Last edited:

Markoni35

TS Addict
OMG, going from super-productive China to botchy India? Seems that's the end of Apple. India can't stop their people from pissing and pooing on the streets, let alone organize a proper production facility. Did you know 70% of people in India poo on (or by) the streets? That's probably a higher percent than in central Africa.
 
OMG, going from super-productive China to botchy India? Seems that's the end of Apple. India can't stop their people from pissing and pooing on the streets, let alone organize a proper production facility. Did you know 70% of people in India poo on (or by) the streets? That's probably a higher percent than in central Africa.
You need to take a look at history. China is productive because western nations and companies built China up over the last 30-40 years to be that way. If you take a look at China in the late 70s right before their market reforms, their GDP per capita was around $500.00 adjusted for inflation, which was poorer than many poor subSaharan African nations. And they didn't exactly have toilets either. Most toilets in China decades ago (and in rural places today) were basically just a shack with a hole in the ground, and the feces were often used to fertilize crops. Toilets in China didn't start modernizing until the late 80s/90s.
 

sushi board

TS Rookie
I knew it was low but not this low. You can make this much working online which probably explains why so many do. You also cut out the costs of meals at the workplace and transport.
 

mbk34

TS Member
I think what the writer has done is just googled what the average wage was across India then converted it to a day rate which works out at around $4.50. He then rounded down to $4 for shock value. If he just looked at factory workers wages then the figure jumps to $20. High tech factories probably earn more than this and obviously numbers vary depending on where you live over there. It makes sense to manufacture in countries where wages are low otherwise you end up paying $1000 for your phone! Oh wait ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion

Markoni35

TS Addict
OMG, going from super-productive China to botchy India? Seems that's the end of Apple. India can't stop their people from pissing and pooing on the streets, let alone organize a proper production facility. Did you know 70% of people in India poo on (or by) the streets? That's probably a higher percent than in central Africa.
You need to take a look at history. China is productive because western nations and companies built China up over the last 30-40 years to be that way. If you take a look at China in the late 70s right before their market reforms, their GDP per capita was around $500.00 adjusted for inflation, which was poorer than many poor subSaharan African nations. And they didn't exactly have toilets either. Most toilets in China decades ago (and in rural places today) were basically just a shack with a hole in the ground, and the feces were often used to fertilize crops. Toilets in China didn't start modernizing until the late 80s/90s.

You're wrong. There are many poor nations that were rebuilt with western money, but they are still shitholes. It's about the DNA. East Asian people are dedicated to work and very intelligent in the scientific sense. You can see for example that even North Korean people are more intelligent than those in countries with higher GDP:
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

East Asians are just made for technology. That's why China is overrunning the west now, even though just 10 years ago their copies of western products were ridiculous. But they learn fast, they are well organized, they are dedicated. You can pour as much money in India (or Central Africa for that matter) as you wish, but it won't help.

In fact, if you wanna really cheap labor, but good products, it makes more sense to open a factory in North Korea than in equally poor African or Middle-Eastern country. It's not about GDP. It's about work habits. It's about their DNA.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
You're wrong. There are many poor nations that were rebuilt with western money, but they are still shitholes. It's about the DNA. East Asian people are dedicated to work and very intelligent in the scientific sense. You can see for example that even North Korean people are more intelligent than those in countries with higher GDP:...[ ]....
Oh don't know, India's MBAs (or equivalents), are raining down hellfire and sodomy on now more than half of the Windows community, in the form of Satya Nadella and Windows 10.

He's Indian, and I bet he works a whole lot cheaper than Bill Gates ever did.

And BTW, since you've officially declared all of the, "final industrial frontiers", on this planet dead or worthless, we're liable to be looking for our "unobtanium" on "Pandora" within the next couple of decades.

Maybe we should just all go to Kenya and learn how to run down gazelles for dinner. After all, that's how you train the next marathon winners.
 

Squid Surprise

TS Evangelist
You're wrong. There are many poor nations that were rebuilt with western money, but they are still shitholes. It's about the DNA. East Asian people are dedicated to work and very intelligent in the scientific sense. You can see for example that even North Korean people are more intelligent than those in countries with higher GDP:
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

East Asians are just made for technology. That's why China is overrunning the west now, even though just 10 years ago their copies of western products were ridiculous. But they learn fast, they are well organized, they are dedicated. You can pour as much money in India (or Central Africa for that matter) as you wish, but it won't help.

In fact, if you wanna really cheap labor, but good products, it makes more sense to open a factory in North Korea than in equally poor African or Middle-Eastern country. It's not about GDP. It's about work habits. It's about their DNA.
Wow... are you by chance related to Adolf Hitler? Let me guess, all blacks are lazy, and all Jews are scheming thieves? Maybe we should just round them all up and exterminate the people with undesirable DNA?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TempleOrion
You're wrong. There are many poor nations that were rebuilt with western money, but they are still shitholes. It's about the DNA. East Asian people are dedicated to work and very intelligent in the scientific sense. You can see for example that even North Korean people are more intelligent than those in countries with higher GDP:
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

East Asians are just made for technology. That's why China is overrunning the west now, even though just 10 years ago their copies of western products were ridiculous. But they learn fast, they are well organized, they are dedicated. You can pour as much money in India (or Central Africa for that matter) as you wish, but it won't help.

In fact, if you wanna really cheap labor, but good products, it makes more sense to open a factory in North Korea than in equally poor African or Middle-Eastern country. It's not about GDP. It's about work habits. It's about their DNA.
You're clearly not acquainted with history or current events. First, advanced civilizations in the Middle East, North Africa, and India long predates the earliest civilizations in what is now China by 1200-3000 years.

Second, there are plenty of intelligent Indian STEM folks around the world in math, engineering, IT, etc. Doctors of Indian descent are common in the West if you live in a developed Western nation. Intelligence is clearly not an issue.

Third, 40 years ago, China's GDP per capita was as low as the poorest SubSaharan country and the lack of toilets meant people were sh1tting in the fields and using it to fertilize crops. The Chinese Communist Party's retarded state socialist policies killed tens of millions (including policies such as mass killing sparrows/birds because they ate grains), and intellectuals and anyone with an education were considered "capitalist roadies" and were attacked, tortured, and imprisoned during the Cultural Revolution.

What do you say about a society that viewed intelligence and education as bad and had so many retarded policies? Bad DNA?
 
Last edited:

Latest posts