Apple says Epic Games is no 'corporate Robin Hood' in breach of contract countersuit

Xallisto

Posts: 141   +159
Again, they ain't the Robin Hoods that everyone thinks. They're in it for themselves, don't let them fool you. They only want to make more money on top of the already large sums of cash that they rake in.
Lol I don't think they are robin hoods, not for 1 moment.

But if they can land some blows on Apple and Google I'm not gonna very sad about it that's for sure.

In the end it just comes down to despising Epic quite a bit less than I despise Apple and Google.

This is definitely a case of just wanting to see the world burn lol.
 

m4a4

Posts: 2,550   +3,045
TechSpot Elite
Apple is their own company, they can set the terms they want. Epic signed on to that, accepting the terms.
Apple created a platform that reaches millions upon millions of people that they control with an iron fist. You can't have a big platform like that while also bullying competition on your platform (even if they are a million dollar company like Epic). That is why antitrust cases are being brought against Apple.
It's in the developers and consumers best interest to prevent abuse on this platform.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 13,003   +6,320
Anyone that thinks Apple/Google deserves 30% on everything in the app/play store is naive. It doesn't cost that much to host.
 

trparky

Posts: 961   +1,042
It doesn't cost that much to host.
Really? Not only do you have to have massive storage arrays to store the app data but you also have to have lots of servers to serve up said data along with a robust load balancing system in place so as to balance the load over all of the servers that are in place. Then there's the fact that when someone wants to download an app you need to have servers that are geographically close to that of the user so that the user has the maximum amount of performance and speed for said download because nobody likes slow downloads. And we're not even talking about bandwidth and electricity costs yet.

Granted, they probably hand the geographical mirrors over to that of like Cloudflare but even that's going to get really expensive, really quick.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 13,003   +6,320
Who the hell cares?
You and I are commenting for some reason. I'm sure it is because WE CARE!
Its THEIR store. Don't like it? Leave. Its a private company.
That is the equivalent to telling Epic to file bankruptcy and close the doors. Epic tried to leave the store (not completely just in-game purchases). And the only option they are given is bend over or shut down. Your statement is not just crazy, it is ridiculous.

BTW you are strengthening my hatred for Apple. Another blind follower standing behind Apple's "Make me richer campaign". That is almost as bad as the US democratic hypocrisy.
 

Nicromancer

Posts: 24   +30
Really? Not only do you have to have massive storage arrays to store the app data but you also have to have lots of servers to serve up said data along with a robust load balancing system in place so as to balance the load over all of the servers that are in place. Then there's the fact that when someone wants to download an app you need to have servers that are geographically close to that of the user so that the user has the maximum amount of performance and speed for said download because nobody likes slow downloads. And we're not even talking about bandwidth and electricity costs yet.

Granted, they probably hand the geographical mirrors over to that of like Cloudflare but even that's going to get really expensive, really quick.

Telling more detail of how it is done doesn't make it cost more.
Steam is taking 30% cut so far. However, the new Epic store is only taking 11% and could still profit, that should give some idea about the cost to support the platform and whether 30% cut is necessary.
Anyway, the 30% ratio is not really important here. Its about whether Apple should allow 3rd party store on the iOS/MacOS platform. I personally would like to have more choices and pay less when downloading apps but I doubt Epic could win the case due to political reason.
 

Peter Farkas

Posts: 577   +434
I, as a consumer, would not like to use multiple app stores for my iphone. What will be next? Are we gonna end up with 25 different stores on our iphones? really?
It will be the same crap like with Steam, Origin, Battlenet, Epic Store, etc...
I don't want to have a different store for every major developer company. F*ck that ****.
However, should this happen, I would still only use the App Store and nothing else.
Perhaps the ownership of the App Store should not be only in Apple's hands, but be a shared role with other stakeholders. Would that remediate the monopoly concern?
 
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kiwigraeme

Posts: 566   +430
Really? Not only do you have to have massive storage arrays to store the app data but you also have to have lots of servers to serve up said data along with a robust load balancing system in place so as to balance the load over all of the servers that are in place. Then there's the fact that when someone wants to download an app you need to have servers that are geographically close to that of the user so that the user has the maximum amount of performance and speed for said download because nobody likes slow downloads. And we're not even talking about bandwidth and electricity costs yet.

Granted, they probably hand the geographical mirrors over to that of like Cloudflare but even that's going to get really expensive, really quick.


Really - hell pirates provide servers with little money. Youtube is basically is paid by adverts & it servers dwarf Apples. It's like believing your telco that phone call overseas costs $1/minute in yesteryear - the variable cost was probably just a cent/minute . Apple know this is their cashcow - just like M/S wanting subs
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 566   +430
Yes, but everyone knows that you can already do that, so it is not a big deal at all. And it is definitely not monopolistic behavior. Does kindle let you sell outside books? As Google is always telling us, Android is way more popular than iOS, so if anyone actually cared they could easily buy an android and not deal with it. Can't have monopolistic behavior without a monopoly. this is just a bad argument looking to be repeated enough that it gains traction. Not the same as fact


EVERYONE - do you really believe that ? I don't - Why do you think M/S bundle I/E - oh everyone knows you can get Chrome . I see this fallacy all the time - just because every party you go to folks are smoking weed - does not mean the whole of the country is smoking it .
I think the most Americans suffer from Stockholm syndrome- Ie it's the natural right of corporations to exploit people . It's a perfectly fine to get only 2 weeks paid leave a year by law. It's the natural right for your heath to be exploited for money .
So when I these tech sites they go out about their rights of privacy - I just laugh and laugh - Oh my Apple is so safe - so is living in certain fascist countries if you support the govt - oh look theres other phones users climbing the mountains - how we get out of out beautiful tour bus - sorry Itunes does not allow that - oh a SD port - how scary - oh copy and paste - no no that's too scary please take my balls Mr Apple . I love travelling in the USA - Americans are very hospitable and friendly - but man a lot of them are Masochists to be exploited by the Man - did yous forget the 60s/70s ? Stepford Consumers -- rant over - have a great weekend
 

Xallisto

Posts: 141   +159
I, as a consumer, would not like to use multiple app stores for my iphone. What will be next? Are we gonna end up with 25 different stores on our iphones? really?
It will be the same crap like with Steam, Origin, Battlenet, Epic Store, etc...
I don't want to have a different store for every major developer company. F*ck that ****.
However, should this happen, I would still only use the App Store and nothing else.
Perhaps the ownership of the App Store should not be only in Apple's hands, but be a shared role with other stakeholders. Would that remediate the monopoly concern?
U would not have to download a 2nd store if u didn't want it........

U wouldn't even need a 2nd store, just allow programs to be downloaded throw the browser and installed the same way u would on a desktop PC.

Do u not care that apple is using you as a party to screw developers? As the owner of the hardware that apples OS is installed you are uniquely positioned to say no.
 
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Peter Farkas

Posts: 577   +434
U would not have to download a 2nd store if u didn't want it........

U wouldn't even need a 2nd store, just allow programs to be downloaded throw the browser and installed the same way u would on a desktop PC.

Do u not care that apple is using you as a party to screw developers? As the owner of the hardware that apples OS is installed you are uniquely positioned to say no.
you have a point.
 

trparky

Posts: 961   +1,042
U wouldn't even need a 2nd store, just allow programs to be downloaded throw the browser and installed the same way u would on a desktop PC.
That, of course, opens the OS for exploitation. We know what Windows looks like, a virus-ridden cesspool of filth. It already is to some degree on Android. Do you want that happening to iOS? I sure as h*ll don't.

There's a reason why a lot of people want app stores, it gives a semblance of security when downloading something in an otherwise malware filled world.
 
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Cubi Dorf

Posts: 367   +244
I am think Epic really just want to run their own app store. I don't think this is greed. I think Apple using their power as platform maker to block it as unreasonable. This is my opinon, even though I am huge apples fan and would not user Epic store anyway. Maybe people are think apple should be allow use their power as platform maker to block. It is free to have your own opinion. It will be interesting to seeing what governments around the world are deciding on this.
 

fadingfool

Posts: 234   +231
Another case where I want both sides to lose. Epic had Fortnite hosted on the Apple store and I assume it was available free? So the only income Apple could have from Epic was by insisting on getting a cut of the micro-transactions? Doesn't seem too unfair.
Apple phones are made by apple - Kindles are made by Amazon, Pixel phones by google - if they want to take a cut of any purchases made through their app stores (or through the app that was accessed via their app stores) that doesn't seem too onerous or unfair (ebay take their cut). If it upsets me too much I can always switch to a competitor's device or root/jailbreak the one I own.
 

Xallisto

Posts: 141   +159
That, of course, opens the OS for exploitation. We know what Windows looks like, a virus-ridden cesspool of filth. It already is to some degree on Android. Do you want that happening to iOS? I sure as h*ll don't.

There's a reason why a lot of people want app stores, it gives a semblance of security when downloading something in an otherwise malware filled world.
Like I said earlier u would not have to use anything other than the store if u did not want 2.

If other folks want to download crap and screw up their phones why would u care? It's not gonna affect your phone is it.

There is nothing wrong with giving people a choice, unless your Apple and that choice would hurt your ability to funnel phone owners though the apple store which is the only place they can legally add their ***hole tax.

Don't u understand that it's you that's being ****ed by Apple as phone owners not anyone else.
 
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Peter Farkas

Posts: 577   +434
Would a “tax” cut resolve this? Like if Apple decreased it’s fee to 5%. I agree 30% is a lot.
But I wouldn’t want to go to websites to download apps. I love the app store. Makes app searching and buying easy, simple and more secure than crappy websites.
it is a shame that we can’t use the microsoft store on PCs the same way as we can use the AppStore on iOS.
 

Axiarus

Posts: 623   +421
You and I are commenting for some reason. I'm sure it is because WE CARE!

That is the equivalent to telling Epic to file bankruptcy and close the doors. Epic tried to leave the store (not completely just in-game purchases). And the only option they are given is bend over or shut down. Your statement is not just crazy, it is ridiculous.

BTW you are strengthening my hatred for Apple. Another blind follower standing behind Apple's "Make me richer campaign". That is almost as bad as the US democratic hypocrisy.
I'm not a blind follower. They accepted the terms then cried about them. Makes no sense. Id be backing any company in Apple's position right now. Don't like the terms? Don't accept them.
 

Xallisto

Posts: 141   +159
I'm not a blind follower. They accepted the terms then cried about them. Makes no sense. Id be backing any company in Apple's position right now. Don't like the terms? Don't accept them.
Those terms only apply to the store, when Fortnite is downloaded and installed on your hardware and not hardware owned by apple, their ability to tax transactions as a peripheral 3rd party rather than a 1st party is as sketchy as can be, and Epic is right to contest it, terms or no terms.
 

Axiarus

Posts: 623   +421
Those terms only apply to the store, when Fortnite is downloaded and installed on your hardware and not hardware owned by apple, their ability to tax transactions as a peripheral 3rd party rather than a 1st party is as sketchy as can be, and Epic is right to contest it, terms or no terms.
They are still using Apple's storefront. If you are on their store and selling something Apple gets a cut. Epic just wanted to have their game on Apple's storefront for free.
 

Xallisto

Posts: 141   +159
They are still using Apple's storefront. If you are on their store and selling something Apple gets a cut. Epic just wanted to have their game on Apple's storefront for free.
They don't want the game on Apples storefront at all, that's the whole point of this case.