CEO of cryptocurrency exchange FTX believes that Bitcoin has no future as a payments network

NightAntilli

Posts: 900   +1,176
You can make things with gold. That's where it's worth comes from, not as a "store of value". So while it's worth in essence is manipulated by speculative market forces, it will always have some worth. Crypto has no worth other than due to speculative forces.
That is a strength of crypto, rather than a weakness. Look up the primary properties that money needs to have, and you'll see that crypto checks all boxes.

If everyone holding crypto decided to cash out all at once, it's worth would plummet to zero so fast that half the speculators would get nothing.
That applies to every market. If everyone decided to cash out their Amazon stock all at once, its worth will also plummet. Realistically, this is not going to happen for neither Amazon nor Bitcoin (among a few others).

Holding crypto is like playing high stakes poker.
That is even more true for your savings in your bank account, and even more so for your pension/retirement money.

Every crypto player with any brains is simply calculating when to exit the market with the most fiat currency they can. It's a game of financial chicken... nothing more.
There are more than a handful of "crypto players with brains" as you call them, that are simply accumulating. You might know a few, like, Michael Saylor, Elon Musk...
 

ET3D

Posts: 1,782   +415
The idea to transition Bitcoin to Proof of Stake is a mainstream narrative to try and put Bitcoin in a bad light, because the ones in control of the current financial system don't like the competition that Bitcoin brings.

Proof of work is just so *****ic that only the truly gullible think it's good. Well, gullible and greedy. The reason it doesn't catch on is that mining is extremely centralised and the big players don't want to lose their cash cow.

It's funny (in the sad sort of way) that there are still proof-of-work proponents and how blind they are.
 

Gezzer

Posts: 258   +132
That is a strength of crypto, rather than a weakness. Look up the primary properties that money needs to have, and you'll see that crypto checks all boxes.


That applies to every market. If everyone decided to cash out their Amazon stock all at once, its worth will also plummet. Realistically, this is not going to happen for neither Amazon nor Bitcoin (among a few others).


That is even more true for your savings in your bank account, and even more so for your pension/retirement money.


There are more than a handful of "crypto players with brains" as you call them, that are simply accumulating. You might know a few, like, Michael Saylor, Elon Musk...
Wrong on so many levels.

If all the investors choose to dump Amazon stock the stock would have little to no value. The company would still be creating profits, and that's why you'd never see it happen. With crypto there's no profit creating mechanism behind it to bolster investor confidence. Only assurances from other investors, like yourself I'll assume, that they'll never be a "cash out". Fact is it could happen at any time.

As for saving accounts. There was a run or "cash out" on the banks in the 30's. It's what created the "Great Depression". Due to that bank accounts in virtually most developed countries are insured up to a certain amount. To prevent a run on the banks. How about crypto? Is there any mechanism to prevent a massive "cash out"? No...

And lastly, how do you define crypto holders with brains? People that think like you and hold crypto? That's the Scotsman fallacy right there. You'll only know the ones with brains when they cash out at the peak of the market. Until that happens they'll look like any other "investor". It could even be you, and your current efforts are to try to keep it increasing in value until you do decide to "cash out"

I'm not saying it isn't a smart move. If I had bought crypto when I first heard of it I'd be wealthy and retired. But I didn't. Even 10 years ago it would of been a smart move. Currently it's showing more and more volatility and eventually smart money will exit because of it. That's how every purely speculative market ends. It crashes hard. Crypto will be no different.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 900   +1,176
Wrong on so many levels.

If all the investors choose to dump Amazon stock the stock would have little to no value. The company would still be creating profits, and that's why you'd never see it happen. With crypto there's no profit creating mechanism behind it to bolster investor confidence. Only assurances from other investors, like yourself I'll assume, that they'll never be a "cash out". Fact is it could happen at any time
What do you think miners do?

As for saving accounts. There was a run or "cash out" on the banks in the 30's. It's what created the "Great Depression". Due to that bank accounts in virtually most developed countries are insured up to a certain amount. To prevent a run on the banks. How about crypto? Is there any mechanism to prevent a massive "cash out"? No...
Crypto doesn't use a fractional reserve system on-chain.

And lastly, how do you define crypto holders with brains? People that think like you and hold crypto? That's the Scotsman fallacy right there. You'll only know the ones with brains when they cash out at the peak of the market. Until that happens they'll look like any other "investor". It could even be you, and your current efforts are to try to keep it increasing in value until you do decide to "cash out"

I'm not saying it isn't a smart move. If I had bought crypto when I first heard of it I'd be wealthy and retired. But I didn't. Even 10 years ago it would of been a smart move. Currently it's showing more and more volatility and eventually smart money will exit because of it. That's how every purely speculative market ends. It crashes hard. Crypto will be no different.
Volatility has been decreasing. The same cannot be said for the stock/commodities market. Remember when oil when negative?
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 507   +644
Bitcoin might be volatile, but its general trend is up, meaning, what you stored not only retains its value but increases over time.

Ok but you don't know that. It hasn't been around long enough to make that assumption. The volatility aspect is the biggest issue that makes it difficult to use BTC as a store of value - no responsible person is ever going to want to get their salary paid in that stuff over a strong State backed Fiat.


 

NightAntilli

Posts: 900   +1,176
Ok but you don't know that. It hasn't been around long enough to make that assumption. The volatility aspect is the biggest issue that makes it difficult to use BTC as a store of value - no responsible person is ever going to want to get their salary paid in that stuff over a strong State backed Fiat.
Strong state-backed fiat? How's inflation doing?

Remember Venezuela and Argentina? If you think the US Dollar is exempt from the same thing happening to it, you're in for a rude awakening.

Yes. BTC hasn't been around for very long. It is still the asset with the fastest adoption in history.
 

Bl00dyMinded

Posts: 478   +726
BTC might not be a payment method in the future but I have no doubt another type of Crypto will be. For all the crypto haters, keep hating. We'll talk in the next 10 years.
 

Reallyhow

Posts: 77   +139
They are not "terrors". They were protesting against vaccine mandates to be allowed to work. That is a good thing. The moment you give your bodily autonomy away, bad things happen. The media said something else, because, you know, smear campaign for anything that doesn't fall into the line of the mainstream narrative.

It's why people like Jordan Peterson, that generally tries to help people, gets slandered, and someone like Justin Trudeau, which openly praises China's oppression of its people and tries to imitate their systems, is praised and lauded.
I forgot that their organizer, Pat King was a perfectly innocent schoolboy.

Not to mention the fact that the "mandates" they protested had nothing to do with the Canadian government. We don't control American policies about who is allowed to cross the border.

Next time, spend your time in kindergarden doing research instead of posting nonsense during naptime.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 900   +1,176
I forgot that their organizer, Pat King was a perfectly innocent schoolboy.
Much more innocent compared to the likes of Trudeau, which openly professed his liking to China's communism, and is a puppet of Klaus Schwab.

Not to mention the fact that the "mandates" they protested had nothing to do with the Canadian government. We don't control American policies about who is allowed to cross the border.
Don't underestimate the power of the people, especially the ones transporting basic goods for survival.

Next time, spend your time in kindergarden doing research instead of posting nonsense during naptime.
I don't hang around kindergartens because I'm not a pedophile, unlike many of your virtue signaling billionaires like Bill Gates.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 507   +644
Strong state-backed fiat? How's inflation doing?

Remember Venezuela and Argentina? If you think the US Dollar is exempt from the same thing happening to it, you're in for a rude awakening.

Yes. BTC hasn't been around for very long. It is still the asset with the fastest adoption in history.

Inflation is a by-product of the controls that Fiat currency allows. It becomes a problem when those controls are mismanaged, which is of course a fair criticism of Fiat, but not necessarily a strong arguement to stop using them. The flip-side to the inflation problem is that you can print Fiat currency to ease an economy out of a crisis. That's not a popular idea, but it is a useful tool nonetheless.

It isn't pragmatic to argue that a crypto currency would have prevented the catastrophies in Argentina and Venezuela, because those economies had underlying problems that wouldn't necessarily have been solved by the money system itself.

Crypto could potentially solve the inflation question due to the fact that supply is relatively fixed, but it has other characteristics which could cause problems in a modern open economy. The fact that you can't increase supply fast enough to meet expansion is a major one (especially in a crisis), and it's suitability as a day-to-day money transfer system is precisely what is being explored by this article.

I'm not advocating one system over another, I'm merely pointing out that you have to be progmatic when you weigh the pros and cons of these things.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 900   +1,176
Inflation is a by-product of the controls that Fiat currency allows. It becomes a problem when those controls are mismanaged, which is of course a fair criticism of Fiat, but not necessarily a strong arguement to stop using them. The flip-side to the inflation problem is that you can print Fiat currency to ease an economy out of a crisis. That's not a popular idea, but it is a useful tool nonetheless.

It isn't pragmatic to argue that a crypto currency would have prevented the catastrophies in Argentina and Venezuela, because those economies had underlying problems that wouldn't necessarily have been solved by the money system itself.

Crypto could potentially solve the inflation question due to the fact that supply is relatively fixed, but it has other characteristics which could cause problems in a modern open economy. The fact that you can't increase supply fast enough to meet expansion is a major one (especially in a crisis), and it's suitability as a day-to-day money transfer system is precisely what is being explored by this article.

I'm not advocating one system over another, I'm merely pointing out that you have to be progmatic when you weigh the pros and cons of these things.
All valid points. Although generally, the crises are created when excess money is being spent, like in wars. A relatively fixed supply enables holding spenders accountable, while infinite printing allows them to be almost free from consequences, at least for a while.