Crypto crash: almost $1 trillion wiped off markets as Bitcoin hits lowest level since 2020

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Karlos95

Posts: 271   +188
Indexing like S and p 500 is a safe bet.
question for the pro crypto currency people. If the cronies own the exchanges and halt trading in some stocks like gamestop when the average person was making money on their dime but allows crypto currencies to literally fall 99% in 5 days with halting anything as the cronies dump it on the average persons dime what do you call this? Fair? Thoughts?
Also didn't Canada truck protest prove that crypto currencies are not prone to the government overreach?
You do realise them halting trading is 100% market manipulation.
They shorted the **** out of GME and started losing money when it was going up.
The "regualtion" is complete bs for the average retail investor.

Technically, those shares, you don't own them. A company goes bankrupt, they give your shares to the administration and they give them back to the bigger investors/new owners. You are left with nothing.
Stock market is a complete waste of time now with Gov and hedge fund over reach on it.

Crypto you own is forever your's, regardless of price (given you understand that if it's in a wallet and not an exchange).

You are comparing 1 coin to 100s if not 1000s of companies that go under and you are left with nothing. I have my doubts whether this Luna coin will come back, but the opportunity is there. Because if you own the coin, it's still there without gov to take it off you.

Bitcoin has never gone under it's ATH every new cycle. $19k BTC will never happen again according to history. People who say that, don't understand it at all, and don't understand their own monetary system when they say they rather USD and stock market lol.

Now, tell me, how did that trucker protest prove that crypto wasn't prone?
 

godrilla

Posts: 450   +216
You do realise them halting trading is 100% market manipulation.
They shorted the **** out of GME and started losing money when it was going up.
The "regualtion" is complete bs for the average retail investor.

Technically, those shares, you don't own them. A company goes bankrupt, they give your shares to the administration and they give them back to the bigger investors/new owners. You are left with nothing.
Stock market is a complete waste of time now with Gov and hedge fund over reach on it.

Crypto you own is forever your's, regardless of price (given you understand that if it's in a wallet and not an exchange).

You are comparing 1 coin to 100s if not 1000s of companies that go under and you are left with nothing. I have my doubts whether this Luna coin will come back, but the opportunity is there. Because if you own the coin, it's still there without gov to take it off you.

Bitcoin has never gone under it's ATH every new cycle. $19k BTC will never happen again according to history. People who say that, don't understand it at all, and don't understand their own monetary system when they say they rather USD and stock market lol.

Now, tell me, how did that trucker protest prove that crypto wasn't prone?
I believe they did this to Russian oligarchs too. I guess if you aren't apposing them its ok?

Update I do recall that Bitcoin in 2017 touched 20k usd but 1 year later fell to almost 1/10 of that dipping to $2700. If we apply the same trend here currently its not impossible.
 
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merikafyeah

Posts: 336   +324
I believe they did this to Russian oligarchs too. I guess if you aren't apposing them its ok?
This is why you should always use non-custodial wallets. They can come in physical hardware form like KeepKey, or software-based like Portis.
I roll my own "hardware wallet" by running portable instances of full blockchain nodes from an SSD inside a USB enclosure. I currently run core nodes of BTC, BCH, and XMR and combined they add up to about 750 GB of blockchain data. In a few years I might have to upgrade to a 2TB SSD.

When protesting The State, using Bitcoin is not ideal. Monero is perfect for this, even more so than paper cash, since cash can be seized.
 

Gezzer

Posts: 273   +141
Everybody keeps talking as if fiat money actually means anything or is worth anything either. lol

Both fiat and crypto are backed by empty promises and dreams. Countries as well as the central banks continue to just print paper. The only difference right now is that traditional fiat money is the "known" element for the last however long it has been, but it has been without real backing for decades. lol

This comment thread is such a sh1tsh0w. (like what I did there with the 1 and 0?)

Sorry, no, you're wrong. Every fiat currency is backed by a countries credit rating which is based on it's economic health, which is in turn based on GDP and over all economic activity. So as long as people are exchanging goods/services for a country's currency, said currency will have some value. How much value will vary due to said economic health and how much investor confidence it produces. So while a fiat currency can drop in value it's really hard for it to hit zero worth.

OTOH currently crypto is really only backed by investor demand. It's a purely speculative currency that only holds value while investors agree that it does. That's why to actually derive any worth it needs to evaluated based on how much of a fiat currency a single crypto currency unit could be converted to. Crypto needs to be a universal medium of exchange for goods/services to produce the same level of confidence that fiat currencies currently hold. And while a small percentage of merchants do except crypto, there's simply not enough economic activity beyond speculative to put it on an even footing with any fiat currency.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 271   +188
I believe they did this to Russian oligarchs too. I guess if you aren't apposing them its ok?

Update I do recall that Bitcoin in 2017 touched 20k usd but 1 year later fell to almost 1/10 of that dipping to $2700. If we apply the same trend here currently its not impossible.
Please re-read what I said. "new" cycle. Meaning, once it touches it's new ATH, it won't go below the old one.
$19k to $3k was still in the same cycle.
You won't ever see $19k BTC again now that it has set a new ATH.
It will most likely pitch a new ATH this year, then fall all the way back down to possibly $20k (if you are lucky enough for such a discount) but won't get below that.


80k BTCs were sold en mass to try to save the scam (UST) and the scam still became worthless while BTC held up.

This is why we don't compare apples to oranges.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 271   +188
Sorry, no, you're wrong. Every fiat currency is backed by a countries credit rating which is based on it's economic health, which is in turn based on GDP and over all economic activity. So as long as people are exchanging goods/services for a country's currency, said currency will have some value. How much value will vary due to said economic health and how much investor confidence it produces. So while a fiat currency can drop in value it's really hard for it to hit zero worth.

OTOH currently crypto is really only backed by investor demand. It's a purely speculative currency that only holds value while investors agree that it does. That's why to actually derive any worth it needs to evaluated based on how much of a fiat currency a single crypto currency unit could be converted to. Crypto needs to be a universal medium of exchange for goods/services to produce the same level of confidence that fiat currencies currently hold. And while a small percentage of merchants do except crypto, there's simply not enough economic activity beyond speculative to put it on an even footing with any fiat currency.
You do realise that currencies are traded every day.
For example, someone would be buying up USD/AUD because of the spread (look at the chart for reference) so to say it needs to be separate is not plausible.
Goods and Services change in price when you change currency.
So of course it needs to be put next to other currencies, just like every other currency.

That's of course if you view your crypto that way. Some see it as digital gold, so worth accumulating and not using to buy goods/services.
 

Gezzer

Posts: 273   +141
You do realise that currencies are traded every day.
For example, someone would be buying up USD/AUD because of the spread (look at the chart for reference) so to say it needs to be separate is not plausible.
Goods and Services change in price when you change currency.
So of course it needs to be put next to other currencies, just like every other currency.

That's of course if you view your crypto that way. Some see it as digital gold, so worth accumulating and not using to buy goods/services.
You totally missed my point.

It's not that fiat currencies are traded. It's the fact that they're a universally accepted medium of exchange. Especially global currencies like the U.S. dollar, the Euro, and the Yen. You can walk into pretty much any store in any country with U.S. currency and they'll accept it. Try that with any crypto currency, 99% of the time they'll look at you funny and possibly kick you out if you can't pay.

As for crypto being a "digital gold" there's a big difference between gold and crypto. You can make things with gold. A lot of things. Fact is virtually every electronic device has some gold in it. So while the perceived value of gold does create a speculative market, there's a base worth that gold simply can't fall below. The same can't be said for crypto. Crypto currencies have the same worth as any other digital good. It's no different than the space ships you can pledge for in Star Citizen.

The fact is any currency is a place holder for actual goods and services. In other words a medium of exchange that simplifies transactions between people. Having a national currency means that a country's citizens aren't forced to resort to bartering to extract value from their labour. It's strength comes from the fact that it's universally accept by all citizens as a medium of exchange. Truth is that as long as everyone agrees on it's role government backing isn't totally necessary. It's simply there to assure everyone that the currency will remain solvent.

Crypto's biggest downfall is the fact that it's not a universal medium of exchange for the vast majority of people and countries. Any fiat currency can be given value by what you can purchase with it. Say bread. Virtually every country has bread, and each country's bread can be assigned a local currency value. Of course this will vary depending on market forces and the country's economic health. A loaf that costs $3.60CN might only cost $2.10US, but the bread still has intrinsic value in of itself, and the ability to exchange fiat currency for it is what gives the currency value.

You really can't do that with crypto currency except in some edge cases. It derives all it's worth from investor demand, not what you can purchase with it. That's the very definition of a speculative market. Even the highly speculative stock markets are based on the worth of the company's issuing the stock and how well they've performed over a given period of time. Not so crypto. Hell, even the tulips in the often referenced tulip craze had intrinsic value.

With digital goods there's nothing tangible, and that's their biggest weakness. But it's not so important when you're talking about digital ships because even though they're not real they'll have entertainment value... eventually... maybe. (don't let me down Chris). But crypto currency doesn't even have that going for it. It's a technologically backed smoke and mirrors that could eventually, possibly, lead to something more tangible. Or it could remain a purely speculative endeavor that is really more like high stakes poker than anything else.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 271   +188
You totally missed my point.

It's not that fiat currencies are traded. It's the fact that they're a universally accepted medium of exchange. Especially global currencies like the U.S. dollar, the Euro, and the Yen. You can walk into pretty much any store in any country with U.S. currency and they'll accept it. Try that with any crypto currency, 99% of the time they'll look at you funny and possibly kick you out if you can't pay.

As for crypto being a "digital gold" there's a big difference between gold and crypto. You can make things with gold. A lot of things. Fact is virtually every electronic device has some gold in it. So while the perceived value of gold does create a speculative market, there's a base worth that gold simply can't fall below. The same can't be said for crypto. Crypto currencies have the same worth as any other digital good. It's no different than the space ships you can pledge for in Star Citizen.

The fact is any currency is a place holder for actual goods and services. In other words a medium of exchange that simplifies transactions between people. Having a national currency means that a country's citizens aren't forced to resort to bartering to extract value from their labour. It's strength comes from the fact that it's universally accept by all citizens as a medium of exchange. Truth is that as long as everyone agrees on it's role government backing isn't totally necessary. It's simply there to assure everyone that the currency will remain solvent.

Crypto's biggest downfall is the fact that it's not a universal medium of exchange for the vast majority of people and countries. Any fiat currency can be given value by what you can purchase with it. Say bread. Virtually every country has bread, and each country's bread can be assigned a local currency value. Of course this will vary depending on market forces and the country's economic health. A loaf that costs $3.60CN might only cost $2.10US, but the bread still has intrinsic value in of itself, and the ability to exchange fiat currency for it is what gives the currency value.

You really can't do that with crypto currency except in some edge cases. It derives all it's worth from investor demand, not what you can purchase with it. That's the very definition of a speculative market. Even the highly speculative stock markets are based on the worth of the company's issuing the stock and how well they've performed over a given period of time. Not so crypto. Hell, even the tulips in the often referenced tulip craze had intrinsic value.

With digital goods there's nothing tangible, and that's their biggest weakness. But it's not so important when you're talking about digital ships because even though they're not real they'll have entertainment value... eventually... maybe. (don't let me down Chris). But crypto currency doesn't even have that going for it. It's a technologically backed smoke and mirrors that could eventually, possibly, lead to something more tangible. Or it could remain a purely speculative endeavor that is really more like high stakes poker than anything else.
I know for a fact most places in my country will only take their dollar.
You can't just go anywhere and expect to use the USD, it's not that all high and mighty.
In fact, there are more places in my country right now that accept bitcoin and not USD.

Just because you can make something out of it does not make it have value. Anything can be made from anything, does not make it have value. It's the fact gold is worth so much is what makes it worth it's value.

"A loaf that costs $3.60CN might only cost $2.10US, but the bread still has intrinsic value in of itself, and the ability to exchange fiat currency for it is what gives the currency value."

Or I can give 0.000069BTC at this current time. Prices change all the time, even currencies worth (Check out the purchasing power for any FIAT currency. You always lose value every year.)

What you are saying is Bitcoin has no value because it's numbers on a screen? Hello, what do you think is in your bank account. It is not actually backed by physical money. (10% at most maybe) 90% is literally debt.
Your currency is only backed by debt. HYPER INFLATION HERE WE COME.

Then come the pretenders that go, "mY CuRrEnCy Is BaCkEd By Us GoV aNd It"s MiLiTaRy" Ok, if it's so good, why does the value of it keep going down? Not only that, look at Russia, 2nd biggest military, goes to war and their currency comes straight down (it's back up now because Putin actually made a great call on his currency to back it up with gold). That doesn't show a lot of confidence with the state of politics in the US right now.

People who say they don't invest in Crypto because of the volatility have not been paying attention. Most things are volatile. Show me one thing that hasn't crashed. Everything at some point has crashed.
 

Gastec

Posts: 242   +119
I'm pretty sure he's trolling, that looks almost copy pasted form crypto discords, and Quantum has called crypto scams for years.

Then again this is quantum....
He is 100% trolling, that's what the username QuantumPhysics mostly does here. To make any financial transactions on the crypto web sites and apps you must give them your personal data and a foto ID. Ah, the fact that you are a drugs or weapons dealer and you have the means to impersonate somebody else and give "incentives" to go under the radar is something else.
 

Gastec

Posts: 242   +119
The only thing that will allow crypto to survive is you eventually (have to) convert it to one of those terrible fiat currency's in the long run order to have any value. Or use it to buy magical NFT's. Not a good outlook...
The ONLY thing that will allow crypto(curerncies) to survive the "confidence" of is/are the people. People who will put money into it to make it grow, so that they can later cash in after more and more people put money into it to later cash in. A Ponzi scheme or pyramidal game.
Those should be required reading for every Crypto pusher here and elsewhere.

And also for those who think any government is bad, till they lose everything and start crying in their cheap Budweiser and pleading for government help.
Are we also easily forgetting all those covid-19 "stimulus" checks that the US Government gave to its "poor" citizens? In the former socialist/communist countries all we got was a hyperinflation, energy bills that increased 600% and higher taxes.
 
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