Crypto crash could see El Salvador default on debt payments

Jroc187

Posts: 65   +41
But you USE it.... so you should care what price it is...
There are people that no matter what will horde crypto and never part with it. If they bought it at $20,000 and it went up to $60,00 not too long ago. I ask why not take your gains and let the next ***** believe they are going to get rich holding it forever take the money and run before people loose all interest, They are like **** no I'm holding it until it gets to $100,000,
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,973
There are people that no matter what will horde crypto and never part with it. If they bought it at $20,000 and it went up to $60,00 not too long ago. I ask why not take your gains and let the next ***** believe they are going to get rich holding it forever take the money and run before people loose all interest, They are like **** no I'm holding it until it gets to $100,000,
Why is that different from people holding onto anything?

There are people who do that with cash, stocks, property, etc… how is it relevant?
 

timljh

Posts: 43   +6
There are people that no matter what will horde crypto and never part with it. If they bought it at $20,000 and it went up to $60,00 not too long ago. I ask why not take your gains and let the next ***** believe they are going to get rich holding it forever take the money and run before people loose all interest, They are like **** no I'm holding it until it gets to $100,000,

To be honest, it feels much safer than holding the dollar to which they have been printing like there is no tomorrow.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 899   +1,174
No, they won't, and no, we won't.
Yes, they will, and yes, you will.

See how useless these kind of replies are? If that's all you have to add, you better add nothing. But considering all the posts here, in actuality, despite them having more words, they aren't saying much more, other than spreading fud.

Masses always have the strongest opinions about things they understand the least.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,973
Yes, they will, and yes, you will.

See how useless these kind of replies are? If that's all you have to add, you better add nothing. But considering all the posts here, in actuality, despite them having more words, they aren't saying much more, other than spreading fud.

Masses always have the strongest opinions about things they understand the least.
Nicely stated :)

I do have to disagree on El Salvador being the richest nation one day... but not because of crypto in any way... El Salvador has a corrupt dictator as their "president" and most of the riches gained through Bitcoin (and I foresee a lot of that) will funnel through him.

Also, I believe that other nations will eventually "see the light" and will put far more resources towards crypto than El Salvador ever could.

Those of you saying "crypto is dead" are probably the same people who thought iPhones were a silly fad... or that the "interweb" wasn't a real thing...
 

Jroc187

Posts: 65   +41
Why is that different from people holding onto anything?

There are people who do that with cash, stocks, property, etc… how is it relevant?
my stocks pay dividends and make me a sready income. My 3 properties also bring me income. When I bought crypto it paid me a steady income it just sat in some digital wallet. I sold it all back in January for a healthy profit with all my stock options because I could see what was coming from a mile away. when the dust settles I will be buying more property with my crypto gains. To anyone that bet everything on crypto, I have no sympathy when the general public losses all interest and the media stops talking about it. That is when it will be a zero-sum game. The dreams of Lambos and pool parties are coming to a end for a lot of kids that went all-in
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,973
my stocks pay dividends and make me a sready income. My 3 properties also bring me income. When I bought crypto it paid me a steady income it just sat in some digital wallet. I sold it all back in January for a healthy profit with all my stock options because I could see what was coming from a mile away. when the dust settles I will be buying more property with my crypto gains. To anyone that bet everything on crypto, I have no sympathy when the general public losses all interest and the media stops talking about it. That is when it will be a zero-sum game. The dreams of Lambos and pool parties are coming to a end for a lot of kids that went all-in
So you agree with me... there is no difference... thanks :)
 

ZedRM

Posts: 951   +663
Yes, they will
No, they won't. El Salvador does not have the population, nor natural resources to create the kind of wealth you suggested earlier. I'm not saying they can not become a economically strong nation, but they will never be "one of the richest countries by 2030", or any other time point. And then there is....
El Salvador has a corrupt dictator as their "president" and most of the riches gained through Bitcoin (and I foresee a lot of that) will funnel through him.
...this. No nation in history has ever gained economic power and wealth by hording that wealth. Only by distributed wealth can a national economy flourish. History has taught us this lesson time and again.
 
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NightAntilli

Posts: 899   +1,174
No, they won't. El Salvador does not have the population, nor natural resources to create the kind of wealth you suggested earlier. I'm not saying they can not become a economically strong nation, but they will never be "one of the richest countries by 2030", or any other time point. And then there is....

...this. No nation in history has ever gained economic power and wealth by hording that wealth. Only by distributed wealth can a national economy flourish. History has taught us this lesson time and again.
Interesting points.
To be fair, mining Bitcoins with heat from volcanoes is actually a natural resource being exploited. Once you understand that money in general is a way to story effort/energy for future use, you understand that this is a natural resource for El Salvador.

As for the corruption, although it might be true, Bitcoin is immutable. The one who accumulates more, will have a great advantage in the future. Other countries might accumulate in the future, but that will inevitably be at a much higher price.
Regarding the hoarding, the US hoarded a lot of gold from the 1930s until after WW2. Current wealth is basically based on that. They "faked" distribution of Gold by making the US the world reserve currency, supposedly redeemable for Gold, but printed more dollars than they had Gold, which is another form of hoarding. Only now that it is decoupled from Gold and can be printed excessively, is the system on the brink of collapse.
 

krisstarr

Posts: 25   +15
Does anyone commenting on here actually understand how economics work?

Bitcoin isn't dead... it has "crashed" but will rebound (it has already begun doing that)...

El Salvador is a 3rd world country who had no stable currency before adopting Bitcoin. While the decline certainly isn't great, nations (even crappy ones like El Salvador) must think long term... Bitcoin will rise again and El Salvador will be the better for it.
If you think a stable currency rises and falls that much in such a short time, if so I want to sell you a bridge in NY.
 

krisstarr

Posts: 25   +15
Since when did I say it was a stable currency?

However, it's also in its infancy... 50 years from now, let's revisit :)
Where you say "El Salvador is a 3rd world country who had no stable currency before adopting Bitcoin." That statement means you are stating Bitcoin is stable currency.

In less than 30 years all of the bitcoin will have been made. And it will likely be a memory of a fab like beanie babies, expect more expensive.

Such big swings in value in short periods of time, mean very high risks over short periods of time, so the popular idea is if I wait long enough some fool will pay more than I did when I want to sell it. Kinda the Ferrari bubble in the 80's, if you are not familiar with that google it and great fool theory, they will help with your Bitcoin understanding.
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,973
Where you say "El Salvador is a 3rd world country who had no stable currency before adopting Bitcoin." That statement means you are stating Bitcoin is stable currency.
no, it meant that El Salvador had no stable currency BEFORE they adopted Bitcoin as a currency... It does not mean Bitcoin is stable - just that their old currency wasn’t! Reading comprehension is key here...

In less than 30 years all of the bitcoin will have been made. And it will likely be a memory of a fab like beanie babies, expect more expensive.
I’d love to see your evidence...if I was in El Salvador, I’d be betting on bitcoin ahead of the colon (what they used before going to the US dollar in 2001)...
Such big swings in value in short periods of time, mean very high risks over short periods of time, so the popular idea is if I wait long enough some fool will pay more than I did when I want to sell it. Kinda the Ferrari bubble in the 80's, if you are not familiar with that google it and great fool theory, they will help with your Bitcoin understanding.
Everything starts out like that... the US dollar also fluctuated a heck of a lot in the early 19th century...

Bitcoin has just as much likelihood of success as anything else... time will tell of course.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 899   +1,174
No, it isn't. It has already been banned in some places and heavily restricted in others. It's future is uncertain. Those facts do not qualify cryptocoin as "immutable" on any level or by any standard.
They cannot ban the use of Bitcoin. The only thing they can ban is cashing out into the fiat system, which increasingly will be becoming irrelevant.
Not that that's what I meant with immutable. Blockchain's nature is that it's immutable. But I guess you're not there yet.

Only in El Salvador and other nations who's economy's can not cope with the effects of current events.
A second and much worse 2008 is coming. This time it might not recover. The current financial system is broken and cannot function long-term. You don't have to believe it. You'll see it for yourself soon enough.
 

ZedRM

Posts: 951   +663
They cannot ban the use of Bitcoin.
Yes, it can be banned. Every government on this world has the legal authority to ban cryptocoin entirely.
A second and much worse 2008 is coming.
Maybe. I doubt it. The world economy is still hurting from the effects of the pandemic and those effects will take time to work out. However, those effects are not a severe as they were 14 years ago.
This time it might not recover.
Needless fearmongering.
The current financial system is broken and cannot function long-term.
Meritless opinion, not supported by evidence.
You don't have to believe it.
You're right about that.
You'll see it for yourself soon enough.
And someday we all might learn to fly as well...

Now where did I put my pixie dust??...
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 5,333   +4,973
Yes, it can be banned. Every government on this world has the legal authority to ban cryptocoin entirely.

They have the authority to do ANYTHING... but they don't have the ABILITY to do lots of stuff...

A government can ban the ability to breathe oxygen... but try enforcing that...

Unless they ban the internet completely, there is no way to ban someone from using cryptocoins - only the ability to convert them into their own currency - and even that is tough to do.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 899   +1,174
Yes, it can be banned. Every government on this world has the legal authority to ban cryptocoin entirely.
They banned torrents. Torrents are still alive. They can bureaucratically ban it, but they cannot practically ban it nor enforce it.

Maybe. I doubt it. The world economy is still hurting from the effects of the pandemic and those effects will take time to work out. However, those effects are not a severe as they were 14 years ago.
The p(l)andemic accelerated the inevitable. NATO expansion is doing the same thing.

Needless fearmongering.
Meritless opinion, not supported by evidence.
I guess the US Dollar losing over 96% of its value over the last century or so is not evidence.
I guess the 10%-20% inflation rate is not evidence.
I guess fractional reserve banking is not evidence.
I guess bailouts for the rich and more debt for the middle class and lower class are not evidence.

And so on and so on.
 

ZedRM

Posts: 951   +663
They have the authority to do ANYTHING... but they don't have the ABILITY to do lots of stuff...

A government can ban the ability to breathe oxygen... but try enforcing that...

Unless they ban the internet completely, there is no way to ban someone from using cryptocoins - only the ability to convert them into their own currency - and even that is tough to do.
And criminals will always crime. But we're debating semantics and pedantics.

They banned torrents. Torrents are still alive. They can bureaucratically ban it, but they cannot practically ban it nor enforce it.
There will always be criminals doing things against the law. However, no one who wants to operate legitimately will not participate.
I guess the US Dollar losing over 96% of its value over the last century or so is not evidence.
No, why? Every form of currency on the planet has "lost" value in the last century. It's called inflation. Perhaps you didn't study that concept in school?
I guess the 10%-20% inflation rate is not evidence.
No, it isn't. Why? Because everyone, everywhere is experiencing the same problem.
I guess fractional reserve banking is not evidence.
No, it isn't. See above.
I guess bailouts for the rich and more debt for the middle class and lower class are not evidence.
No, it isn't. That is evidence of another set of problems.
And so on and so on.
At this point, you are not arguing merit, you're arguing ego. I've better things to do with my time than to argue with someones ego.

My opinion, El Salvador screwed up. They got into to early. They took a big risk and it blew up in their face. It'll take them time to recover. End of story.
 
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timljh

Posts: 43   +6
And criminals will always crime. But we're debating semantics and pedantics.


There will always be criminals doing things against the law. However, no one who wants to operate legitimately will not participate.

No, why? Every form of currency on the planet has "lost" value in the last century. It's called inflation. Perhaps you didn't study that concept in school?

No, it isn't. Why? Because everyone, everywhere is experiencing the same problem.

No, it isn't. See above.

No, it isn't. That is evidence of another set of problems.

At this point, you are not arguing merit, you're arguing ego. I've better things to do with my time than to argue with someones ego.

My opinion, El Salvador screwed up. They got into to early. They took a big risk and it blew up in their face. It'll take them time to recover. End of story.
Why do you think inflation is something acceptable? The invisible tax that rob everyone including the homeless but for who? It is a modernised slavery.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 899   +1,174
There will always be criminals doing things against the law. However, no one who wants to operate legitimately will not participate.
Labeling users of a new technology as criminals is a much larger problem, because it opens the door to tyranny.

No, why? Every form of currency on the planet has "lost" value in the last century. It's called inflation. Perhaps you didn't study that concept in school?
Don't be condescending. I know exactly what inflation is and how it works. And how it actually works, and that, they don't teach anyone in school. Technically it is an invisible tax on the population.

No, it isn't. Why? Because everyone, everywhere is experiencing the same problem.
So... Because everyone everywhere is experiencing the same problem, it is not actually a problem? You're hilarious.

At this point, you are not arguing merit, you're arguing ego. I've better things to do with my time than to argue with someones ego.
Says the one making comments about what I did or did not learn in school...

My opinion, El Salvador screwed up. They got into to early. They took a big risk and it blew up in their face. It'll take them time to recover. End of story.
Your opinion is not based in reality. Do you work for Klaus Schwab?