Democratic lawmakers introduce bill that could ban auto-checkout bots

defaultluser

Posts: 303   +264
How will this work though, for overseas bots?

It won't.

This is like making a bill that bans Ransomware - it won't do anything to stop the industry.

this is just a step so that us prosecutors can officially dot their ts and cross their eyes, and pretend that one of these international fugitives will be that stupid to take a holiday here. - it's also nearly impossible to figure out who creates malware like this.

You have a nearly impossible problem of tracing bots through a vpn, and you can create an infinite number of virtual mailing addresses in multiple countries tosend it off to,,making package tracking nearly impossible (unlesw you get the retailers to insert a GPS tracker). so it doesn't matter if they are operating here, or overseas...and making the sale of these tools illegal to sell has no effect on those who deal in crypto.
 
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eforce

Posts: 638   +788
We're talking about preventing bots, lines of code that can maneuver around security measures meant to stop them, from buying and selling goods that are meant to be available to the store's customers. These bots specifically buy goods that are hard to come by in order to resell them to the same customers that should have had the option to buy them at regular price. There is no taking away of rights or liberties by stopping people and organizations (often foreign) from using bots to subvert the normal activities of buying and selling. This is not a conservative/liberal, republican/democrat, or an individual rights/liberties issue. Scalpers can still scalp; they just can't do so with an unfair advantage of getting to the goods faster and buying up all the good available before a real person has the chance to do so. I would say such a law is protecting liberties of individuals not infringing on them.
If retailers want to curb demand that's their prerogative, not the states.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,058   +6,859
Scalpers will not be happy with this law.
And that's alright, because everyone else will be better for it.
Who cares? Wouldn't it be ironic if they all had to get real jobs?

T think leeches used to be used for sucking infections and puss out of wounds. Scalpers might be a tad over qualified for that, but not by much.. :rolleyes:
 

defaultluser

Posts: 303   +264
Now if we could get the EPA to pull the plug on these ancient coal fired plants crypto miners are using....


its never going to be that easy, when Power Sinks like indoor marijuana was near-impossible to crack-down on Who is going to police the power wwhwen they just move to another country?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,058   +6,859
its never going to be that easy, when Power Sinks like indoor marijuana was near-impossible to crack-down on Who is going to police the power wwhwen they just move to another country?
Maybe they could just give the address to your friendly neighborhood F-22 Raptor pilot.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 412   +472
Yes with a capital Y

There could be amendments for sellers to ensure that they are selling to a real person.
 

Scrye74

Posts: 58   +103
This won't stop the problem, as many have easily pointed out here, and I am sure that those folks drafting the bill are fully aware of that. So, what could be the side-effects? What would the side effects be of a bill that governs the purchase and resale of items over the internet? What could possibly go wrong with having the government be more involved in deciding how, and by whom, purchases and sales on the internet are conducted. Hmmmm....

Don't worry. I am sure the party of big government and small liberties won't abuse this.
 

BadThad

Posts: 827   +968
More worthless legislation from the ineptocracy. Agree on premise but it won't work and won't be enforced except in the most extreme cases. Plus, if dumbocrats wrote the bill, it certainly will contain partisan pork!
 

waclark

Posts: 204   +109
Thats a lot of legislation when a simple fix is to just sell things in actual stores.

No, that is not a simple fix. I live in areas where getting to a physical store is not trivial. In one place I have a home, we have a grocery store and a hardware store, no computer stores and no speciality stores. I would have to take a ferry boat and drive to a physical store. Not attractive to me at all.

Access to online goods has been a huge benefit to me. I can get things I can't find locally and I can get things at a good price delivered quickly. Brick and Mortar stores are dinosaurs and given the potential carbon footprint of the facility not to mention the thousands of cars driving to and from, no thanks.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 650   +1,151
No, that is not a simple fix. I live in areas where getting to a physical store is not trivial. In one place I have a home, we have a grocery store and a hardware store, no computer stores and no speciality stores. I would have to take a ferry boat and drive to a physical store. Not attractive to me at all.

Access to online goods has been a huge benefit to me. I can get things I can't find locally and I can get things at a good price delivered quickly. Brick and Mortar stores are dinosaurs and given the potential carbon footprint of the facility not to mention the thousands of cars driving to and from, no thanks.

Thinking about it, I'd venture to say you make a larger carbon footprint from ordering items online......

Order something online:
* Product has to be produced - this could be done in multiple locations (cities and/or countries) which means moving of material from one spot to the next and then to the next until you get a finished product.
* Finished product has to be packaged to be transported to distribution warehouses
* Distribution warehouses then divides product to ship out to retail warehouse distribution center (think Target distribution warehouse) and/or online distribution warehouses (think Amazon warehouse) for online ordering
* Consumer (you) order finished product online - requires item to be packaged (this in turn requires extra carbon footprint due to the need for packaging material to box the item up to ship it out)
* Packaged item gets picked up and shipped out by truck to the delivery truck's sorting facility.
* Package is routed to appropriate final shipping location (which actually may be multiple stops along the route) by truck or plane
* Package is sorted at final shipping facility location and put on a truck for delivery
* Package is driven out by truck to be delivered to your house

Drive to the local store and buy in person:
* Product has to be produced - this could be done in multiple locations (cities and/or countries) which means moving of material from one spot to the next and then to the next until you get a finished product.
* Finished product has to be packaged to be transported to distribution warehouses
* Distribution warehouses then divides product to ship out to retail warehouse distribution center (think Target distribution warehouse) and/or online distribution warehouses (think Amazon warehouse) for online ordering
* Consumer (you) get yourself to the store by driving or public transportation.
* Consumer buys items in person and gets back home by driving or public transportation

It is possible I miss a step or two in the bullet points that I don't think of, but as it looks, it appears a larger carbon footprint is had from ordering online. But, that's just from my perspective, as I said, perhaps I missed something.

In the end, people find ordering online less of a hassle because they don't have to get in the car to drive somewhere. They don't have to deal with other people (let's face it, sometimes having to deal with other people sucks). Just because it's easier to order online that doesn't mean you're having a smaller carbon footprint over driving to your local store.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,058   +6,859
In the end, people find ordering online less of a hassle because they don't have to get in the car to drive somewhere.
AFAIK, Amazon is implementing electric delivery vehicles. Since the (more than likely) ICE powered car you're going to drive miles to pickup your goods, has itself, a carbon footprint, that sort of nullifies a great deal of your argument about not shopping online..

Plus, with online shopping being preferred, more goods can be moved to a distribution point in any given shipment.

So now, I have a thousand packages to be picked up. Is a thousand autos driving to a store more destructive to the environment, than only several trucks driving designated, carefully planned routes less so? I believe it may very well be.
 

Aceseven

Posts: 166   +234
No, that is not a simple fix. I live in areas where getting to a physical store is not trivial. In one place I have a home, we have a grocery store and a hardware store, no computer stores and no speciality stores. I would have to take a ferry boat and drive to a physical store. Not attractive to me at all.

Access to online goods has been a huge benefit to me. I can get things I can't find locally and I can get things at a good price delivered quickly. Brick and Mortar stores are dinosaurs and given the potential carbon footprint of the facility not to mention the thousands of cars driving to and from, no thanks.
You sorta proved my point though.

these consoles and whatever else are bought so easily because scalpers just need to be quick to hit a button, then boom, what they want is purchased and sent to them in bulk.

just making people need to buy it from a store fixes that part, needing to physically go to a place in person to buy the console, hopefully at a store where its 1 per body and your card cant buy another one for a day would solve alot of this.

And yes it sucks for folks who live in the boonies but I'm not targeting needed goods like food and such, plus if you really want that item so badly....then take a trip to the store, because obviously the convenience at the moment is being highly abused.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 650   +1,151
AFAIK, Amazon is implementing electric delivery vehicles. Since the (more than likely) ICE powered car you're going to drive miles to pickup your goods, has itself, a carbon footprint, that sort of nullifies a great deal of your argument about not shopping online..

Plus, with online shopping being preferred, more goods can be moved to a distribution point in any given shipment.

So now, I have a thousand packages to be picked up. Is a thousand autos driving to a store more destructive to the environment, than only several trucks driving designated, carefully planned routes less so? I believe it may very well be.

Still need to build those electric cars.
Batteries die - they need to be "recycled".
Making massive batteries for EV is a very carbon footprint leaving production.
Extract metals from multiple places, transfer to other places to have parts made, transferred to other spots to finish production.
The fuels need to harvest the rare metals and so on.

Then you have to also charge the batteries with electricity....there's still a carbon footprint....

You can't get away from it. Exchanging one for a different version isn't, in the current state of things, any better.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,058   +6,859
Still need to build those electric cars.
Batteries die - they need to be "recycled".
Making massive batteries for EV is a very carbon footprint leaving production.
Extract metals from multiple places, transfer to other places to have parts made, transferred to other spots to finish production.
The fuels need to harvest the rare metals and so on.

Then you have to also charge the batteries with electricity....there's still a carbon footprint....

You can't get away from it. Exchanging one for a different version isn't, in the current state of things, any better.
Since I'm not particularly in the mood to listen to, or respond to, another extended eco-tirade, how about if we agree we're all going to die, and leave it at that?
 

waclark

Posts: 204   +109
You sorta proved my point though.

these consoles and whatever else are bought so easily because scalpers just need to be quick to hit a button, then boom, what they want is purchased and sent to them in bulk.

just making people need to buy it from a store fixes that part, needing to physically go to a place in person to buy the console, hopefully at a store where its 1 per body and your card cant buy another one for a day would solve alot of this.

And yes it sucks for folks who live in the boonies but I'm not targeting needed goods like food and such, plus if you really want that item so badly....then take a trip to the store, because obviously the convenience at the moment is being highly abused.
Well, first, not everyone using a GPU is gaming. There are legit uses for such a card outside entertainment. Second, you want some business to have to inventory and pay for brick and mortar premises along with the staff to operate it. It won't matter how available those cards are, they will be ridiculously expensive if you can only get them in a store. And in areas where stores are few and far between, they will be over-priced and still in short supply.

Brick and mortar isn't the answer here.
 

waclark

Posts: 204   +109
SNIP

So now, I have a thousand packages to be picked up. Is a thousand autos driving to a store more destructive to the environment, than only several trucks driving designated, carefully planned routes less so? I believe it may very well be.
It's a good question, but I believe you would really have to examine all the pros and cons. First, you have to have a ton of people showing up at those distribution centers to handle packages and load them on trucks. They will all be driving ICE vehicles to work.

If you had 1000 packages to pickup, it would likely take more than several trucks to get that merchandise to the end user. It's not just the final delivery van but all the trucks in between as well. Trucks from port to warehouse, to another warehouse to distribution center to you. And, not all of them will be electric either.

Plus consider all the back and forth of deliveries and then returns to Amazon et al. If I buy at at store, I'm less likely to make a return with the exception of maybe warranty service or something like that.

For me, online shopping makes sense because I live in an area where a drive to the mall is 30 mins away and in some cases I would have to take a ferry boat and that is neither electric nor energy efficient. But in more high-population areas it may not pencil out so easily.