Disengaging from China manufacturing is hard, but it's happening slowly

whateversa

Posts: 94   +123
It's mostly because of USA draconian environmental regulations. We should stop lying about the causes of things. It is far too expensive to open a factory in the USA due to the EPA. Factories and especially mining are effectively banned here, they emit CO2.
Or more responsible, up to date, modern (sometimes more expensive) manufacturing processes should be used... shoving your pollution into another country does not solve the real bigger problem.
 

Porkous

Posts: 170   +55
Its one globe.
People act as if the earth is split, like planets in the vast universe (they are kind of split). The earth is kind of split, but is also connected in many different ways.

The way I see it, one side of the planet has more working force and is doing the job they are fitting into.

In comparison, even if US is considered richer, it is china actually the one richer, because of the people and their growing achievements.

US is the cinema of the world, and also the go to language.

China is growing, and is literally the work force of the world at the moment...
The issue might also be when this work force is hungry and has to move ahead to do, maybe, what they could do better than others were doing, ie technical expertise, and necessarily cheaper... All in order to balance the table.

Heck, Apple is the richest on earth but until recently, they barely designed anything, on themselves.


Who helped china build the great wall back then? Seems they were good at building stuff.
 
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gamerk2

Posts: 771   +747
The biggest problem, frankly, is the economic orthodoxy of the 80's is still haunting how we view economic growth.

Supply Side theory (which the right in both the US/UK still largely follow) is based on providing the populace with goods priced at the lowest level possible, to offset the necessity to pay them higher wages. This keeps inflation down (hence why inflation has rarely been above 3% since '83), but stagnates the lower/middle classes economically (hence why the current generation is the first one poorer then the one that came before). But the *illusion* of prosperity is maintained for the majority of the populace.

The problem, however, becomes quite clear anytime there's any economic slowdown; the middle class can't prop up the economy against even a mild recession, which forces the Federal government to eat very large deficits to inject money directly into the economy to keep everything from bottoming out. Worse, when inflation does hit (as we're seeing in recent times), it becomes self fulfilling as the only way to hide it from workers is to pay them more, making inflation worse.

The economic orthodoxy is changing though; look at the market reaction to the UK mini budget for reference to how markets react to pure supply side theory these days. But this thinking of keeping costs down above all else is still dominant in the US, even as there is a growing acknowledgement it is no longer sustainable.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,402
So what the heck is a semi, and what percentage of readers would know that?
I don't know what percentage of readers would know what the term means but I've always known it to mean a tractor-trailer style of truck like Optimus Prime. I always just referred to them as "Mack Trucks":
mack-anthem-1200.jpg
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,392   +4,402
In comparison, even if US is considered richer, it is china actually the one richer, because of the people and their growing achievements.
Yup. The USA isn't the production juggernaut that it used to be, not even close.
US is the cinema of the world, and also the go to language.
I think that the language is more a result of the British Empire controlling so much of the world until relatively recently. The USA and Canada were both originally part of that Empire and that's why English is so dominant in North America.
China is growing, and is literally the work force of the world at the moment...
Their industry is, but their population is not.
Who helped china build the great wall back then? Seems they were good at building stuff.
Yeah, the kind of wall that Trump could only dream of! :laughing:
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,430   +7,877
Sure, but when one massive generation is the one in complete control when everything goes south, to deny their responsiblity is crazy. I don't blame everyone in the boomer generation for the state of the world today but everyone that I do blame for it does happen to be a boomer.
As I see it, its an opportunity for improvement. If the later generations fail to see the fault, and act to correct it - which, in the US anyway, is currently happening, then, IMO, the fault goes to the later generations for "continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Finally, though, someone has seen the futility of the matter and is acting to correct it. There's that old adage - "Hindsight is better than foresight" and I think it applies well. Unfortunately, what's done is done and at least the mistake is being owned and actions are being taken to correct it. The best that can be expected under the circumstances is what is being done - at least as I see it.

As I see it, it was Nixon who started it all. At the time, Mao Zedong was the Chinese.

For me, I see two missed opportunities for improvement in the resulting relationship between China and the US. The first is that trade between the US and China was significantly more normalized. As I understand it, the US did the same thing with Japan before WWII which likely lead to the Japanese being able to build up their military and return the favor to the US in the form of bombs. So the US entered better trade relations with China, and surprise, surprise, the US (and other countries likely as well) paid for it by making the US a shithole third-world nation with lowered standards of living and cheapass consumerism where products are crap to begin with and don't last long.

The second missed opportunity, at least as I see it, is that after centuries of isolation, Mao wanted China to be part of the modern world. IMO, the US First BS of the previous administration might well have lead to a similar condition if it prevailed and stuck. Though it did not go down that road, it is something that history has seen previously and it is known, if people take the time to examine it and think about it, that national isolation is not a good thing. Yet the previous administration wanted the US to try going down that road again whilst expecting better results. Humanity should know better - humans work better together.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,430   +7,877
It's mostly because of USA draconian environmental regulations. We should stop lying about the causes of things. It is far too expensive to open a factory in the USA due to the EPA. Factories and especially mining are effectively banned here, they emit CO2.
Bullcrap. That's just an excuse to piss all over the planet in the name of Profits. Then again, if you want to try breathing and living in anything like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smog
more power to you. Most people would rather not live a life of sickness, though.

EDIT: And more to the point, why is Mircon building a new semiconductor fab in NY State if it is, as you say, "Too expensive"?
 
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wiyosaya

Posts: 8,430   +7,877
China doesnt have to deal with woke ideology, lawsuits, drastic unrelenting ever stricter faux environmental regulations choking off growth <--(this is the biggie) or the welfare state
:rolleyes: I think you are misinformed. China absolutely has to deal with air pollution and they are also doing something about it. https://airly.org/en/air-pollution-in-china-what-causes-it/
And guess what? They don't have to deal with people who think that "Toxic waste is good for you and bad for profits" because what their government says goes and the consequences, of doing other than what the government says is what is to be done, are dire.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,430   +7,877
Or more responsible, up to date, modern (sometimes more expensive) manufacturing processes should be used... shoving your pollution into another country does not solve the real bigger problem.
The trouble with pollution is it effects the whole world. There are even traces of particulate waste in regions of the world where no one lives.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,430   +7,877
China is growing, and is literally the work force of the world at the moment...
The issue might also be when this work force is hungry and has to move ahead to do, maybe, what they could do better than others were doing, ie technical expertise, and necessarily cheaper... All in order to balance the table.
This is precisely why Mao Zedong wanted to end China's centuries of isolation.