Elon Musk is named Time's person of the year, but not everyone is pleased

BadThad

Posts: 997   +1,136
And each side spins that figure to their own advantage thus also being lying POSs! There appears to be no agreement on the figure - surprising to say the least. 🤣

Well, there's TOTAL agreement that not all Americans pay taxes. EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN should be paying federal taxes, no exceptions. This fake railing against the rich is nothing to political fodder for the ignorant:

"The top 20% of taxpayers paid 78% of federal income taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Policy Center, up from 68% in 2019. The top 1% of taxpayers paid 28% of taxes in 2020, up from 25% in 2019."

 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 2,115   +2,528
TechSpot Elite
Well, there's TOTAL agreement that not all Americans pay taxes. EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN should be paying federal taxes, no exceptions. This fake railing against the rich is nothing to political fodder for the ignorant:

"The top 20% of taxpayers paid 78% of federal income taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Policy Center, up from 68% in 2019. The top 1% of taxpayers paid 28% of taxes in 2020, up from 25% in 2019."


Which roughly matches the 1%'s total income (20% of total US income), in fact their total tax paid is only 40% above the US average. Which is interesting as the top tax bracket applying to them is 60% higher than the average lower tax bracket and that's just a mean of those lower brackets, not the mean of all the households in those brackets. So that % figure should be notably higher.

The rich pay a share, but not as high as their tax bracket indicates they might. Of course that's because they have the $ to pay good accountants. Being rich has it's benefits.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,597   +1,420
You already bit.

How about the time he got frazzled at the diver trying to rescue the kids from the cave and accused him, without evidence, of being a pedophile?

IMO, that, alone, is enough evidence in my view of him being a bad person. Or how about simply wanting to run away from Earth and go live on Mars just because he thinks the world is doomed? IMO, he will not escape the problems. He will bring them there. How about him wanting to stay around and be part of the solution rather than running away from it? You think he's solving things? He could care less. Even people close to him say so.

From the article that I linked:
Lmao the best you have is a nasty tweet? I was actually at the Thai rescue and I know Mr Unsworth, he is actually an almighty bellend so I don’t really care that Musk called him a nasty name.

But still, you are going to write off all of Musks achievements over a nasty tweet? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. Its such a a laughably absurd position. I mean he literally delivered affordable global satellite internet but no hes an ******* because of a singular tweet? Lmao.

The fact is you don’t have a reason to hate on him. You are just following the herd like a sheep, you want to be seen to hate him by others, its pathetic. Think for yourself child!
 

Scott Barnes

Posts: 22   +22
So, Musk is, " the most broadly capable and efficiently productive human currently alive"? And western society is nothing if not a non productive collection of narcissists?

I would tell you that you're delusional, but you'd never accept that, and my post would likely get pulled.

I will tell you that Ford has over 200.000 pending orders for their electric F-150. In fact they had so many, they had to stop accepting them.

And like Satchel Paige said, "don't look back, 'cause there's always someone gaining on you".

What has this all knowing, all achieving, omnipotent scion done for the health industry lately.......? (Hint: not a damned thing).

He has marketed $50.00 whistles that, (ostensibly), look like the truck he may get to market next year,(which most people think is an abomination)..

He sold a sh!tload flamethrowers in fire ridden California.

And oh yes, he started PayPal, the sole purpose of which was to skim money off people's transactions who didn't have credit cards. So maybe we should say that Musk is the "consummate leech" alive on earth today. Whaddya think?
We'll skip the first statement as it is redundant.

Delusional: Fixed, false conviction in something that is not real or shared by other people.

NO Ford does not have 200,000 orders pending for the F150 Lightning, they have several hundred thousand reservations with a $100 deposit which is exactly the same model that Tesla used for the Cybertruck. Objectively it is a good way to gauge more than passing interest and there is an industry precedent so that seems like a solid approach. Orders start in January 22 and I have no doubt it will sell quite well as the F150 has been the leader of the work truck market for decades and it appears to be a very well thought out product.

To the quote; "don't look back, 'cause there's always someone gaining on you". That is an excellent way to describe Musks entire structure of doing business. Looking across all of his ventures it is apparent that they are technology and progress drivers in every space they occupy.

Firstly what Musk has done for the health industry in the last 18 months was to repurpose Tesla manufacturing capacity and tooling to produce thousands of ventilators and provide them to overladen medical facilities across the US for free on an as needed basis. There was a half hearted attempt by certain US based media elements to refute that these units were ever delivered which evolved into a semantic charade surrounding the specific definition of the word "ventilator". The same media charlatans eventually pleaded no contest via their silence when it was made rather clear that Musk had provided "ventilators" he claimed he would, not the CPAP or BiPAP machines that media had inferred he would provide.

Going forward Neural link is in the middle stages of testing their implants on rodents with human trials looking to begin in 2022 though that may be delayed due to C19 as well as the fact that Neurobiology is simply extremely difficult and this type of research is the bleeding tip of the spear. The first aims of Neural link are to address the degradation of conditions such as Alzheimer's and dementia which are both horrible conditions as well as the most impactful on medical systems due to the care required for sufferers. As of 2015 the cost to medical systems from dementia exceeded all other single conditions according to the NIH, as a resident of Canada with a socialized health care apparatus any way to radically decrease load on the system would be rather beneficial as those resources could target other conditions.

The whistle is worth exactly as much as a free market consumer is willing to pay for it, Rolex sells $25000 watches and there are customers who feel that is good value for their money. It is their choice. I prefer TAG myself but that is my personal taste, much the same as the Cybertrucks design is a matter of personal taste. As a child of the 80's to me it looks like the incarnation of the view I had of the future while watching Saturday morning cartoons and building things from my pile of Lego blocks (I can't call them bricks no matter what Lego calls them officially).

You can walk into any Walmart in the US and purchase a butane torch and a can of WD40 for $20, these items provide the same functional utility to the item Musk sold that was "Not a flame thrower". The difference is that the bar to entry of Musks item was 25 times higher. The framing of your statement while not necessarily intentionally disingenuous is at least dubious considering the item was sold across the US and not just in California. Most notoriously it was sold in NY where it lead to a rapid response by government in the form of a change to legislation banning the personal ownership of a flamethrower.

To suggest that Paypal "skimmed" money off the top of transactions infers that they were clandestine in their actions, they weren't as their fee was clearly listed in the EULA that you had to agree to before being able to use their service. Fee's and surcharges are charged by all bank, brokers and lenders as their cost of doing business, again your framing here is dubious. Paypal also helped revolutionize E-commerce 2 decades ago much the same way crypto currency is moving the game on today. Less friction to reasonably regulated commerce is a boon to all participants.

Musks current enterprises include: Tesla, SpaceX, The Boring company, Neuralink and Solarcity (this is a good place to look for rebuttal options) amongst being involved with a myriad of other enterprises in a financial or managerial capacity.

Musk also effectively privatized space flight and most recently in that vein beat out the entire established aerospace industry (the National group) to win the NASA contract for the next moon lander.

Conviction is the root of the narcissism that I mentioned in my original comment, we live in a time where the sum total knowledge of the human race is accessible in the palm of the hand yet so many go about things with religious dogma. I chose my references to be across the highly polarized US political landscape and where possible chose them to make a steel man argument. Legitimate criticism is always valid and can be rather useful to refine ideas.







 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
To suggest that Paypal "skimmed" money off the top of transactions infers that they were clandestine in their actions, they weren't as their fee was clearly listed in the EULA that you had to agree to before being able to use their service. Fee's and surcharges are charged by all bank, brokers and lenders as their cost of doing business, again your framing here is dubious. Paypal also helped revolutionize E-commerce 2 decades ago much the same way crypto currency is moving the game on today. Less friction to reasonably regulated commerce is a boon to all participants.
A rose is a rose, that which we call a rose, by any other name, will still smell as ??????

You're correct though, adding charges on top of a transaction is technically not, "skimming". It's adding on top of the cost of the transaction, not by removing from it.. It does cost the customer more. Technically, it's a "surcharge". Either way, Musk got a lot of his money from it.

What you call it, I suppose it depends on if you're a "glass half full", or, "glass half empty", person.

Ventilators were also made by other factories, under the "defense production act". I believe Ford & GM, not sure about that. Maybe you could do the research.

Musk does feign "charitable works". IMO, they're for self promotion and tax sheltering. The time honored term for charity granted by the uber rich is, "noblesse oblige". The underlying premise is that, "we're so rich, we have to give a pittance to the poor, so we don't appear too greedy".

I'd suggest you get in line for your "Cybertruck whistle", and sign up for Musk's mars colony. At least I won't have to listen to you.

My take on Musk's mars colony, is that, it won't come to fruition in anywhere near the time frame he suggests, and he won't be among the crew, if and when it does come to pass. After all, you can't fly around in a Gulfstream G-650 there, the atmosphere is far too thin.

And BTW, research is being done on Alzheimer's disease that suggest Herpes simplex may be a cause, or contribute to it.


CNN reports 200,000 electric F-150 "preorders" as of the beginning of December. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/spo...rders-for-electric-f-150-lightning/vi-AARCyX2

Go argue with them if you're not convinced.
 
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GLenn63

Posts: 148   +54
TechSpot Elite
Time’s ‘Person of the Year’ has also included Trump, Obama, Putin, Gorbachev, Stalin, and Hitler.

Let’s not try and get our panties in a bunch from media-chosen, subjective, arbitrarily chosen names. This stupid magazine means nothing.
That's why I go commando.
 
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GLenn63

Posts: 148   +54
TechSpot Elite
Time became a woke rag when they hired all leftists. Now they spend each issue promoting wokeness, climate garbage and promoting misguided, dumbocrat ideas.
Don't forget they promote safe places, men getting pregnant and using tampons. Men who identify as female can whip it out in the ladies room and not be indentified as sexual predators.
 

Scott Barnes

Posts: 22   +22
A rose is a rose, that which we call a rose, by any other name, will still smell as ??????

You're correct though, adding charges on top of a transaction is technically not, "skimming". It's adding on top of the cost of the transaction, not by removing from it.. It does cost the customer more. Technically, it's a "surcharge". Either way, Musk got a lot of his money from it.

What you call it, I suppose it depends on if you're a "glass half full", or, "glass half empty", person.

Ventilators were also made by other factories, under the "defense production act". I believe Ford & GM, not sure about that. Maybe you could do the research.

Musk does feign "charitable works". IMO, they're for self promotion and tax sheltering. The time honored term for charity granted by the uber rich is, "noblesse oblige". The underlying premise is that, "we're so rich, we have to give a pittance to the poor, so we don't appear too greedy".

I'd suggest you get in line for your "Cybertruck whistle", and sign up for Musk's mars colony. At least I won't have to listen to you.

My take on Musk's mars colony, is that, it won't come to fruition in anywhere near the time frame he suggests, and he won't be among the crew, if and when it does come to pass. After all, you can't fly around in a Gulfstream G-650 there, the atmosphere is far too thin.

And BTW, research is being done on Alzheimer's disease that suggest Herpes simplex may be a cause, or contribute to it.


CNN reports 200,000 electric F-150 "preorders" as of the beginning of December. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/spor
A rose is a rose, that which we call a rose, by any other name, will still smell as ??????

You're correct though, adding charges on top of a transaction is technically not, "skimming". It's adding on top of the cost of the transaction, not by removing from it.. It does cost the customer more. Technically, it's a "surcharge". Either way, Musk got a lot of his money from it.

What you call it, I suppose it depends on if you're a "glass half full", or, "glass half empty", person.

Ventilators were also made by other factories, under the "defense production act". I believe Ford & GM, not sure about that. Maybe you could do the research.

Musk does feign "charitable works". IMO, they're for self promotion and tax sheltering. The time honored term for charity granted by the uber rich is, "noblesse oblige". The underlying premise is that, "we're so rich, we have to give a pittance to the poor, so we don't appear too greedy".

I'd suggest you get in line for your "Cybertruck whistle", and sign up for Musk's mars colony. At least I won't have to listen to you.

My take on Musk's mars colony, is that, it won't come to fruition in anywhere near the time frame he suggests, and he won't be among the crew, if and when it does come to pass. After all, you can't fly around in a Gulfstream G-650 there, the atmosphere is far too thin.

And BTW, research is being done on Alzheimer's disease that suggest Herpes simplex may be a cause, or contribute to it.


CNN reports 200,000 electric F-150 "preorders" as of the beginning of December. https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/spo...rders-for-electric-f-150-lightning/vi-AARCyX2

Go argue with them if you're not convinced.

ts/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-teases-cybertruck-ford-boasts-200000-preorders-for-electric-f-150-lightning/vi-AARCyX2

Go argue with them if you're not convinced.
I agree completely that Musk made substantial returns from Paypal, I'm not against that though so long as it results in something productive. I don't know if you're from the US or not but if you are I can completely understand the disdain for banking entities, especially over the last several decades. As a Canadian myself we haven't had anything like the type of weaselly predatory behavior from financial entities here. Hell we even had a leader who understood how a balance sheet was supposed to look in office during the great recession (he had nothing resembling social policy on tap in his repertoire but you can't win em all?).

I'm you're basic insufferably disgusting optimist, tempered by parents born to farming families in a rather poor rural area in the 50's.

Apparently Dyson and Fitbit also produced ventilators based upon the same working model as Tesla that came out of NASAs JPL. GM and Ford must have had their own internal climate control teams develop their units, couldn't find specifics but parts of their CC/AC systems are most likely patented so they wouldn't be keen on dropping design specs.

I don't believe his motivation has anything to do with money, disgustingly naive maybe but I've met enough folks between academia and business to have seen how all consuming passion in a goal can drive someone (in far too many cases it also ruins their lives). I view the mars things as his all consuming goal and every single other thing he does as being in the service of getting that off the ground. We could all do with more motivation and drive as it tends to bring out the best in folks, for too many of us though our homes and couches are far too alluring after dealing with the requirements of the week (I have a limited sample size of couches but mine is in rough shape).

I look at the whistle as just another kooky thing Musk has done as a form of A-typical investment capital, I view it as a variation on things like "go fund me" but it just avoids the middle man and may actually be easier to do the back end accounting on as it's simply selling a product. I'm not really the market for creative tatt though as I tend to let other folks eat the depreciation on things and purchase used market. I bought a 2009 Benz C300 in 2013 for 1/4 its MSRP in immaculate condition and recently my trusty 2007 Corolla did its last grocery run so the wife and I purchased a 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD Turbo for about 1/3 its MSRP. I'm all about value for utility, assuming the turbo in the Hyundai doesn't eat itself.

I honestly don't get the private jet thing? The top brass of literally every fortune 500 company on the planet use some type of private jet for efficiency purposes. Until he takes his Gulfstream to Washington to beg for bailout money to sort out an industry he knowingly screwed up for personal profit I'm totally fine with the jet (If that happens I will find a hat to eat sans condiment and offer pitchfork sharpening services pro bono). It's like worrying about the fuel economy on a Bugatti or a Koenigsegg, it is such a rarefied item that it's effectively irrelevant environmentally.

I was unaware of HSV research going in that direction, though it does make sense regarding some of the vectors for HSV. My spouse has a background in behavioral neuroscience and we've both worked with seniors experiencing degenerative neurological conditions so that is something I'm legitimately quite interested in looking into.

I believe we're getting on toward a heated understanding of each others positions. The worst part about comment sections is the lack of bandwidth, it is really honestly difficult to convey intonation in text. Technology is making us all less social while in the current paradigm limiting us to low resolution commentary online. With any luck the comment section of today will evolve into something like a Youtube shorts of replies and commentaries in the near future as it is much easier to communicate when body language, facial expression and tone are represented.

I forgot to put in the original post that I do not now nor have I ever held investment in any of Musks companies or associated entities, I prefer the Canadian mortgage market as the dividends are hilarious consistent and it tends to be competently regulated all around. We'll see how that goes with the incoming deluge of inflation though.
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,547   +7,388
I agree completely that Musk made substantial returns from Paypal, I'm not against that though so long as it results in something productive. I don't know if you're from the US or not but if you are I can completely understand the disdain for banking entities, especially over the last several decades. As a Canadian myself we haven't had anything like the type of weaselly predatory behavior from financial entities here. Hell we even had a leader who understood how a balance sheet was supposed to look in office during the great recession (he had nothing resembling social policy on tap in his repertoire but you can't win em all?).
Well, PayPal succeeded due to an internet which was even more "wild west", than it is now, with regard to actually obtaining the object you were paying for. Musk did take some of the guesswork out of that aspect of internet. OK, but IMO, that's where his main skills abide. I always give him credit as "the P.T.Barnum" of technology. He attended university with the intent of becoming, ' a "physicist", but quit after a year. I think I'm pretty accurate in saying that you damned near need at least a masters in physics to be the janitor at a cyclotron or collider. So, Musk can, "talk the talk", but he's nowhere near, "walking the walk"..
I'm you're basic insufferably disgusting optimist, tempered by parents born to farming families in a rather poor rural area in the 50's
I'm your basic misanthrope. I think Homo sapiens is the worst piece of crap that evolution ever dropped on itself. An apex predator that has almost completely eliminated any competition for resources. So, my "ecological concerns", are relegated to wondering how long a species can successfully survive, when the planet itself has become the prey..
Apparently Dyson and Fitbit also produced ventilators based upon the same working model as Tesla that came out of NASAs JPL. GM and Ford must have had their own internal climate control teams develop their units, couldn't find specifics but parts of their CC/AC systems are most likely patented so they wouldn't be keen on dropping design specs.
As I, (and others) have stated, Musk has gained most of his current fortune by leeching everything he could, in the form of everything from patents to payments, from NASA, and by extension the US government. That's nothing new, defense contractors have done it for decades.

But, he's just so damned good at talking money out of people's wallets, it's frightening.
Apparently Dyson and Fitbit also produced ventilators based upon the same working model as Tesla that came out of NASAs JPL. GM and Ford must have had their own internal climate control teams develop their units, couldn't find specifics but parts of their CC/AC systems are most likely patented so they wouldn't be keen on dropping design specs.
I rest my case.
I don't believe his motivation has anything to do with money, disgustingly naive maybe but I've met enough folks between academia and business to have seen how all consuming passion in a goal can drive someone (in far too many cases it also ruins their lives). I view the mars things as his all consuming goal and every single other thing he does as being in the service of getting that off the ground. We could all do with more motivation and drive as it tends to bring out the best in folks, for too many of us though our homes and couches are far too alluring after dealing with the requirements of the week (I have a limited sample size of couches but mine is in rough shape).
Yes, Musk does live in a sci-fi world of his own making. But he also uses that, expands on that, and integrates it into his self promotion. Everything is hyperbole, crafted to make himself look the part he;s playing, as long as the camera is rolling. I would say he's, "the best method actor in extortionists today". (You of course, likely feel differently).
I look at the whistle as just another kooky thing Musk has done as a form of A-typical investment capital, I view it as a variation on things like "go fund me" but it just avoids the middle man and may actually be easier to do the back end accounting on as it's simply selling a product. I'm not really the market for creative tatt though as I tend to let other folks eat the depreciation on things and purchase used market.
I look at the whistle and the flamethrower as "merch sold to groupies of any given rock band". They're just another, "Cheap Trick", and one of his cons.
I honestly don't get the private jet thing? The top brass of literally every fortune 500 company on the planet use some type of private jet for efficiency purposes. Until he takes his Gulfstream to Washington to beg for bailout money to sort out an industry he knowingly screwed up for personal profit I'm totally fine with the jet (If that happens I will find a hat to eat sans condiment and offer pitchfork sharpening services pro bono). It's like worrying about the fuel economy on a Bugatti or a Koenigsegg, it is such a rarefied item that it's effectively irrelevant environmentally.
OK, my reference had absolutely nothing to do with wealth or ecological concerns. I simply don't believe Musk has the determination to abandon creature comforts and TV cameras, to live in a hut on mars. The mars "mission", (IMHO), is just a back story, carefully crafted to enhance his own mythology and legend.

However, if you want to familiarize yourself with an even bigger piece of sh!t than Musk, investigate "Joel Osteen", the pastor of a "super church'. IMO, preachers are all pathological liars, competing with Donald Trump for, "best in the business". Tune in to watch his "act", complete with hundred (or so) dollar hairdos, and more bullsh!t than a herd of cattle being led to slaughter, while the congregation is rolling around in it, with frenetic ecstasy.

So, for better or worse, that's my take on Musk.

I will grant you, he's never been in the sub prime mortgage business, nor has he taken his private jet to congress to beg for bailout money. But than again, he's never had to. He just runs that silver tongue of his, and wallets come flying out of people's pockets. He has however manipulated the stock market, (and gotten caught at it).

IMHO (yes, again), all CEOs and top executives in any field, are all sociopaths, a "skill" which has gotten them where they are. Elon Musk is no exception. You may want to discuss that with your wife, as to its veracity.

Anyway, here's some food for though from the distant past on computers, a ruined ecosystem, with a fabulous collection of fantasy artwork to propel it

Out of order, here's the 1st track of the album. It's from the viewpoint of a carnival barker, hawking the "wonders of modern life".

Keith Emerson is incredibility self indulgent. Nonetheless, he's possibly the best jazz-rock keyboardist the ever lived. Bear with him. He always seems to go back to that venerable Hammond B-3. though, but who could blame him.

Enjoy or loathe it, at least give it a spin.
 
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