Elon Musk responds to 'tragic' ad slamming Tesla's Full Self-Driving software

midian182

Posts: 7,774   +79
Staff member
A hot potato: Elon Musk has responded to an ad taken out in Sunday’s New York Times that blasts Tesla’s Full Self-Driving software, claiming it malfunctions and commits critical driving errors every 8 minutes. The CEO says the full-page advertisement is a “tragic case of ego [over] ability.”

The advert was taken out by The Dawn Project, an organization calling for software in critical computer-controlled systems to be replaced with unhackable alternatives that never fail. The ad demands Tesla’s Full Self-Driving (FSD) be removed from public roads until it has “1,000 times fewer critical malfunctions.”

“Don’t be a Tesla crash test dummy,” the ad states. “We did not sign up our families to be crash test dummies for thousands of Tesla cars being driven on the public roads by the worst software ever sold by a Fortune 500 company.”

The ad also offered $10,000, the same price as the software itself, to the first person who could name “another commercial product from a Fortune 500 company that has a critical malfunction every 8 minutes.”

Musk responded to the ad with the following tweet:

The founder of The Dawn Project is Dan O’Dowd, who is also the CEO of Green Hills Software, which builds operating systems and programming tools for embedded systems. TechCrunch notes that its real-time OS is used in BMW’s iX vehicle.

A Twitter user replied to an O’Dowd tweet announcing the ad, noting that the CEO should reveal which Tesla competitors his company has taken money from. Musk joined in the conversation, adding that “Green Hills software is a pile of trash. Linux ftw.”

The ad arrived just days after the California Department of Motor Vehicles told Tesla it would be “revisiting” its opinion that the company’s test program doesn’t fall under the department’s autonomous vehicle regulations because it requires a human driver. The decision came after the DMV reviewed dozens of viral videos showing Tesla’s Full Self-Driving beta technology driving cars into dangerous situations. The agency also received a letter of concern from a key state legislator, reports the Los Angeles Times.

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koblongata

Posts: 510   +279
Whatever people say but my Tesla slammed break and saved me from a major crash with a utility truck came out from behind the fences on the high way and I am super thankful. Sometimes there is simply no way for a human to react to certain kind of situation, I think this respect should be evaluated equally.
 

BobDoleStillAliv

Posts: 27   +32
I have FSD Beta on my '18 Model 3. It is both bad and awesome at the same time. The fact that It can sometimes make trips with zero interventions / errors is amazing. The fact that those trips are rare is bad. FSD has 'tried to kill me' 3 times, but I know I am a beta tester. I know this software is not 100%. I watch it like a hawk and I immediately take control in situations that even 'might' be dangerous. Also no-one is forcing me to do this. I'm a tech nerd, obviously since I'm on this site, and simply enjoy being part of something cutting edge - even if it is very rough and slow to improve

edit: Also consider that this description is only on city streets and 2 lane highways. Autopilot on interstates and 4 lane highways is near perfect. I really wish Tesla would target L3 automation for interstates 1st. FSD for insterstate / highways where you can read techspot or watch youtube would sell like hotcakes, probably for even more than $12k that its at now
 
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Neatfeatguy

Posts: 787   +1,373
Teslas Autopilot is more like driving assistence and if you need assistence while driving you're probably not fit to drive cars in the first place.

I'd honestly say that 60% of people driving vehicles are not fit to be driving them. I think most of those drivers are bad because they don't give a F about the other people driving - it's get the F out of their way because they don't feel they need to stop at stop lights, stop signs, stop for pedestrians or give the right of way or signal their intentions or use proper lanes (I see people passing others on the shoulder all the time), don't understand how a roundabout works and the list goes on.

So many bad drivers out there. Most people believe it is their right to drive and don't understand it's a privilege. It doesn't help either that the laws for bad driving are generally just a slap on the wrist and don't deter these bad drivers from doing the law breaking actions again or don't help the drivers learn how to correct their actions.
 

whateversa

Posts: 77   +93
Elon knows how to create hype out of nothing and redirect attention... 'Linux ftw' makes it sounds as if Tesla self driving is as good as linux... while it is not. Just because you run an application on linux does not mean your application is stable or any good.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,477   +6,260
Whatever people say but my Tesla slammed break and saved me from a major crash with a utility truck came out from behind the fences on the high way and I am super thankful. Sometimes there is simply no way for a human to react to certain kind of situation, I think this respect should be evaluated equally.
Its not like other companies don't have the same.
 

passwordistaco

Posts: 178   +417
Competing software company based in California astroturfs an ad at the same time an unnamed California "key state legislator" writes a letter to revisit a regulatory decision that went in Tesla's favor. Both happening 1 month after Tesla moves it's HQ out of California.

Quite coincidental.
 

sreams

Posts: 282   +404
I read Tesla Auto Pilot is rated 2 out of a max of 5 or 7. All I know is I wouldn't pay the extra $10K to get it.

What you probably read was something about what level of autonomy the system provides. This is not a "rating" or score. Tesla's system in its current state is a Level 2 system. This simply describes its feature set... not how good or bad it is.
 

sreams

Posts: 282   +404
A Tesla driver is facing felony charges in a deadly crash when "Auto pilot" was engaged.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tes...nslaughter-california-associated-press-2022-1

IMO, Musky is reflecting on himself when he says "Ego over ability". What a clown. 🤣

This was Autopilot in this case, not the FSD beta. Autopilot is traffic aware cruise control and autosteer. It does not respond to traffic lights at all (just like every other cruise control system in every other car). The driver ran a red light and killed people. Whether or not Autopilot (cruise control) was enabled is immaterial .
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,309   +2,312
What you probably read was something about what level of autonomy the system provides. This is not a "rating" or score. Tesla's system in its current state is a Level 2 system. This simply describes its feature set... not how good or bad it is.
Score, rank, rating. Pick whatever one you want.
Level 2 (out of 5) feature set explains exactly why Tesla auto pilot is so bad it's not worth the $10K.
 

koblongata

Posts: 510   +279
But really, user input will always disengage AP, he must have fallen asleep or something.
 
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hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,309   +2,312
Again... like I said, a Level 2 system is neither good nor bad. It is simply a Level 2 system.
Tesla FSD is a level 5 gimmick.
Half the tech in the car is. I love tech too, but Tesla isn't high on my list when it comes to electric cars. Other cars have what they have or they will eventually have it.

Build quality is okay, interior is bland, one screen and a goofy wheel and it goes fast. If it didn't go fast we'd be asking who's Tesla.

Just in: First ever driver charged with manslaughter involving Tesla autopilot. Paying $10K to Beta test something that can kill someone is silly. People should be hired or paid to be testers.
 
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koblongata

Posts: 510   +279
Or he was letting the car do the driving while he was paying zero attention, which is how most Tesla owners treat Autopilot.
Just because of a few clowns and clowns do exist, clowns look for troubles everywhere they go, how can you say "most" Tesla drivers are like this.
 
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Revolution 11

Posts: 122   +156
Tesla FSD is a level 5 gimmick.
Half the tech in the car is. I love tech too, but Tesla isn't high on my list when it comes to electric cars. Other cars have what they have or they will eventually have it.

Build quality is okay, interior is bland, one screen and a goofy wheel and it goes fast. If it didn't go fast we'd be asking who's Tesla.

Just in: First ever driver charged with manslaughter involving Tesla autopilot. Paying $10K to Beta test something that can kill someone is silly. People should be hired or paid to be testers.
That's why anyone who is not a Tesla fanboy (stupid to be a fanboy of anything really) should wait for a reputable manufacturer or 5 such companies to make self-driving available before spending a dime on it. Hate on Toyota all you want but never in a thousand years would it approach safety like Tesla does not.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 7,477   +6,260
This was Autopilot in this case, not the FSD beta. Autopilot is traffic aware cruise control and autosteer. It does not respond to traffic lights at all (just like every other cruise control system in every other car). The driver ran a red light and killed people. Whether or not Autopilot (cruise control) was enabled is immaterial .
Autopilot, seems to be unaware of parked emergency vehicles - https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/14/...utopilot-investigation-data-ford-gm-vw-toyota Personally, I would call that a lack of traffic awareness.
Hate on Toyota all you want but never in a thousand years would it approach safety like Tesla does not.
Toyota, unlike most other car manufacturers, is proactive about their problems. They issue recalls without having to be forced by NHSTA to do so. IMO, they actually care about their product and the effect it has on the world, in general, not just the money they are making on it, or the "Bragging Rights" it gives them. That's part of the reason why I think Musky's comment about Ego reveals much more about himself than those he is trying to diss.
Musk had you all fooled when he claimed full auto control in 5 years... a couple of years ago. Like he is fooling you about Mars colonies in 5 years.
Well, some of those here, anyway. ;)

Build quality is okay, interior is bland, one screen and a goofy wheel and it goes fast. If it didn't go fast we'd be asking who's Tesla.
Any auto manufacturer claiming these "go fast" specs are on my ignore list. My bet is that when the other, real automobile manufacturers get into the EV market in the ways that they have said they will, within five years (or the time that Musky claims that he is going to Mars) people will be asking "Who's Tesla?" :laughing:
Just in: First ever driver charged with manslaughter involving Tesla autopilot. Paying $10K to Beta test something that can kill someone is silly. People should be hired or paid to be testers.
Agreed! Tesla should be paying those drivers $10K to beta test his crap.
 

sreams

Posts: 282   +404
Tesla FSD is a level 5 gimmick.

Tesla FSD is not a released product. Pretty easy to not pay for it if you don't want to take chances on it being released soon.

Just in: First ever driver charged with manslaughter involving Tesla autopilot. Paying $10K to Beta test something that can kill someone is silly. People should be hired or paid to be testers.

You are conflating unrelated things. The driver who ran the red light was not using any $10K FSD features. He was using Autopilot, which comes with every Tesla. He ran a red light with cruise control on. The same thing would have happened with the same driver and any car with cruise control.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,309   +2,312
Tesla FSD is not a released product. Pretty easy to not pay for it if you don't want to take chances on it being released soon.



You are conflating unrelated things. The driver who ran the red light was not using any $10K FSD features. He was using Autopilot, which comes with every Tesla. He ran a red light with cruise control on. The same thing would have happened with the same driver and any car with cruise control.
I'm talking about both...
 

captaincranky

Posts: 18,527   +7,370
Guys, guys, take it easy on the great man. Didn't he mention he was planning to have self driving Tesla rovers in his mars colony by 2025?

At least there, they won't be able to run into anything much more serious than your oxygen generation station.