Elon Musk 'Ukraine peace plan' Twitter poll brings angry response from country's president

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
Yes really. Ukraine has avoided peace deals with Russia that would end this war.
Maybe Ukraine just did not like capitulating to Putin the bully. His propaganda about Nazis, in Ukraine, reminds me of the propaganda of WMD as the US' justification for invading Iraq. At least in Iraq, the US got rid of one of the world's biggest tyrants.

I am sure you have already figured out that I hold Tucker Carlson in about as high of a regard as I do Elon Musk - which isn't saying much at all.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
Maybe Ukraine just did not like capitulating to Putin the bully. His propaganda about Nazis, in Ukraine, reminds me of the propaganda of WMD as the US' justification for invading Iraq. At least in Iraq, the US got rid of one of the world's biggest tyrants.

I am sure you have already figured out that I hold Tucker Carlson in about as high of a regard as I do Elon Musk - which isn't saying much at all.
Spent any time in Ukraine? I can tell you now it's the most corrupt of the three Rus countries (Russia, Ukraine and Belarus). If Russia had built military bases in Mexico after helping to overthrow the Mexican govt, the US would have invaded our southern neighbor in a heartbeat.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
You need to stop, Putin supporters are not welcome here. There is currently zero chance of good faith negotiations, this much is clear. It was made painfully clear by Putin.
Did the US help to overthrow a democratically elected Ukrainian govt. in 2014? Yes they did. Did the US build a military training base outside of Lviv? Yes they did. Has Ukraine balked at peace talks with Russia? Yes they have. Is Putin a pr1ck? No doubt. And btw I did my time in the US army and I'm not about to go fight for a corrupt Ukrainian govt.
 
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Geralt

Posts: 1,308   +2,105
So why won't you, and your friend alaskaguy, visit the nearest VOENKOMAT to mobilize and take a trip to, let's say, Zaporizhzhia, where me and my two metal jacket friends are can't wait to see you?
First, I am not a Russian citizen. Second, I am too old to be called up. Got it?
 

tarsius

Posts: 8   +17
Since the start of the war, there were supposed to be talks between two sides about how to end it multiple times, but nothing came of it. I am really suspicious any of these people in power actually want peace.
Don't you worry. Armed Forces of Ukraine want peace too. And they are working meticulously to achive it.
 

RudyBob

Posts: 828   +839
:rolleyes: If you think Democrats are bad, perhaps you should try living in an area of the Ukraine presently under attack by Russians.
I was thinking more of Palestinians and their situation. Whoever opposes a peace plan with as little information as given here is making a mistake
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,883   +4,894
TechSpot Elite
Did the US help to overthrow a democratically elected Ukrainian govt. in 2014? Yes they did. Did the US build a military training base outside of Lviv? Yes they did. Has Ukraine balked at peace talks with Russia? Yes they have. Is Putin a pr1ck? No doubt. And btw I did my time in the US army and I'm not about to go fight for a corrupt Ukrainian govt.
All you said is BS. The Maidan protests were just that: protests against the elected president (just like you have the right to protest so do Ukrainians). Being democratically elected does not guarantee that you will stay in power when you do stupid things. Viktor Yanukovych was elected by the people on the promise of singing a deal with the EU and bringing Ukraine closer to the EU. Instead, after getting elected, he went to the russian side. This is a fact.

A million people don't just go out in the streets to protest nothing. And please don't talk to us about secrete snipers, secret training camps, etc. You are effectively talking about fantasy books written for conspiracy theory "enthusiasts".

You are justifying heinous war crimes and a full on invasion by calling the Ukranian government "corrupt". Do you not see the issue with that statement? Why not just call them something stupid like "nazi"? Quote Putin for us.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 703   +584
All you said is BS. The Maidan protests were just that: protests against the elected president (just like you have the right to protest so do Ukrainians). Being democratically elected does not guarantee that you will stay in power when you do stupid things. Viktor Yanukovych was elected by the people on the promise of singing a deal with the EU and bringing Ukraine closer to the EU. Instead, after getting elected, he went to the russian side. This is a fact.

A million people don't just go out in the streets to protest nothing. And please don't talk to us about secrete snipers, secret training camps, etc. You are effectively talking about fantasy books written for conspiracy theory "enthusiasts".

You are justifying heinous war crimes and a full on invasion by calling the Ukranian government "corrupt". Do you not see the issue with that statement? Why not just call them something stupid like "nazi"? Quote Putin for us.
$5 billion US tax dollars funding the Maidan coup says your wrong. And once again if Russia had overthrown a democratically elected govt. in Mexico and then proceeded to build military bases there the US would invade Mexico in a heartbeat.


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havok585

Posts: 296   +165
"In a later poll, Musk wrote, "Let's try this then: the will of the people who live in the Donbas & Crimea should decide whether they're part of Russia or Ukraine." Over two million people have voted, with 58.2% choosing yes. "

That's the only sensible thing I've seen from Musk.
 
Bla-bla-excuses only. There should be no barriers for russian patriot when protecting motherland from devil NATO!
with all due respect please understand not all americans agree with american "policy", or even like our current leadership. im an american through and through, but I FIRMLY believe that this is none of our damned business. seriously. I think the world would be a much better place without the mostly judgmental fake people that live in this country. we are not russian citizens, and therefore, in my belief, we should have no opinion because it is not our country, putin is not our leader, and it really has nothing to do with us. I wont apologize for my "fellow citizens," simply because I cant stand nosey people who judge without knowing a damned thing about the people that they are judging, and I REALLY cant stand people who look down their noses at others simply because they think they need to have an opinion, whether its informed or not.

honestly, I really wish more people in this country learned how to mind their own business. its not okay to stare at people, talk **** about people in public that you dont know, point, laugh at, or let/encourage your children to do any of the above. if my dad would have seen me do any of that when I was the age that kids are when they go out and do this crap with their parents, with the parents even encouraging them, my dad would have beat me damned near into a coma.

for real, I truly believe that these fake people are the reason that were in a position with the other countries of the world. I cant say anything about how the world looks at us. not for nothing, I would be laughing at us too. transgenders having their surgeries paid for by the us military? all of you misunderstand the point of the military. it isnt time to decide if you want a wang or a cooter. its time to defend this country and be a perverted wierdo at another time. not for nothing this is what happens when a country bans prayer in school. take a good look, because this is the face of that country that has lost any and all ties to a moral set. to any code. my father beat my *** when I needed it, and I wholeheartedly thank him for that. because of that, I know how to conduct myself as an adult. my honest opinion is that some people never got their *** whooped. at least not NEAR enough.

and im sure the wierdo comment will make some people cry on here. good. you need to have your feelings hurt once in a while. believe it or not it actually builds character. do you know something? ill bet Russia doesnt give out trophies to the whole class in school "because everybody is a winner!" life dont work that way.

sorry man, but I can only take so much from other americans. I cant stand most ot them, because while theyre staring and chewing and looking like straight up cows and ****, the small portion of us actually dont survive off of mommy and daddys money or drive their car.maybe
those of us that need it will get our asses whooped.
 
All you said is BS. The Maidan protests were just that: protests against the elected president (just like you have the right to protest so do Ukrainians). Being democratically elected does not guarantee that you will stay in power when you do stupid things. Viktor Yanukovych was elected by the people on the promise of singing a deal with the EU and bringing Ukraine closer to the EU. Instead, after getting elected, he went to the russian side. This is a fact.

A million people don't just go out in the streets to protest nothing. And please don't talk to us about secrete snipers, secret training camps, etc. You are effectively talking about fantasy books written for conspiracy theory "enthusiasts".

You are justifying heinous war crimes and a full on invasion by calling the Ukranian government "corrupt". Do you not see the issue with that statement? Why not just call them something stupid like "nazi"? Quote Putin for us.
"...doesnt guarantee that youll stay in power when you do stupid things..."

bullshit. has anyone ever heard of joe biden?
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,883   +4,894
TechSpot Elite
$5 billion US tax dollars funding the Maidan coup says your wrong. And once again if Russia had overthrown a democratically elected govt. in Mexico and then proceeded to build military bases there the US would invade Mexico in a heartbeat.


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BS on that article. Showing support for pro-western parties is normal.

The Maidan demonstrations were not a result of US meddling, it was Yanukovych's own doing. People were starving and businesses were all failing, with the exception of those linked to Russia. (how convenient)

From your article:
"As the Ukrainian economy languished and fell farther and farther behind those of Poland and other East European neighbors that had implemented significant market‐oriented reforms, public anger at Yanukovych mounted. When he rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer, angry demonstrators filled Kiev’s Independence Square, known as the Maidan, as well as sites in other cities."

That's the reason why demonstrations happened. Why not call out Russia's involvement in all of this? Do you think Yanukovych broke his pro-western promises after he was elected by himself? That he suddenly just had a change of heart and thought Putin would offer a better future for Ukraine? No, it was clear that he became Putin's dog and was destroying Ukraine from within, all for the benefit of himself and his "party members".

I've been part of many demonstration in my own country (Romania) to remove presidents and corrupt prime ministers. And many of them succeeded. Being elected means absolutely nothing if they do stupid/corrupt things. If 200.000 people didn't go out in the streets of Bucharest then the party in power would have changed justice laws to allow corrupt officials to avoid jail time. I got gassed to stop that.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
okay. I say this with the utmost respect, so please try not to take me out of context, and for my part I will attempt to not be disrespectful. as a country, I dont exactly know for sure when we got onto this "patrol the world" crap, but I do know that when we had our civil war, nobody got involved, unless im not remembering correctly. however ill bet one of my testicles that russia did not get involved even if someone else did.
And you'd lose it. It was easy enough to find this information, but Russia did get involved in the US Civil War https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/foreign-response-american-civil-war.html
that being said, we have enough problems at home to go around worrying about someone elses civil war.
The same argument was used against the US getting involved in the beginnings of WW II, and guess what? The US had to get involved due to aggression against the US. Which, IMO, supports the idea that if you let bullies have their way, they will never stop bullying until they control everything.

IMO, the rest of your post, since it hinges on the above, is not worth the time it would take me to respond to it.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
$5 billion US tax dollars funding the Maidan coup says your wrong. And once again if Russia had overthrown a democratically elected govt. in Mexico and then proceeded to build military bases there the US would invade Mexico in a heartbeat.


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More hard-right leaning BS from the Cato institute?

You say let's "get out" of Ukraine seems to be the position that the hard-right takes in this dilemma. It was very similar to the position many Americans had about WW II, and look where that got them.

OK, How about a thought experiment? Since Russia did not come and invade Mexico and we don't know what would have happened, lets try another theoretical?

Suppose the world let Russia get away with invading Ukraine? Just what would be Putin's next target since he would almost certainly think something along the lines of "I'm not meeting any opposition. What else can I get to Make Russia Great Again?"

Seems to me there were some Russian grumblings, before they started getting the crap beat out of them, along the lines of "Watch out, we may decide to take Alaska back" I'm sure you heard them if you actually have anything to do with Alaska. Now that Russia is getting the crap beat out of them, have you heard any more such grumblings?

Or would you like having truly communist rulers having control of Alaska?

Putin is a clown living in the past pining for the "Good old days of the Republic" though those times are long gone.

I'll give you that there may be corruption in the Ukraine, but that should be left to the Ukrainians to resolve - not some autocratic communist A-hole brutal bully outsider who is living in the past, and sending his own citizens to be massacred.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
"...doesnt guarantee that youll stay in power when you do stupid things..."

bullshit. has anyone ever heard of joe biden?
Ever heard of Elections? Vote against Biden the next time if you don't like him. Like it or not, Elections are the law of the land in the US.

All recent elections in Russia are highly suspect since the opposition has had the experience of literally being eliminated. And a 100% vote for Putin? BS.

IMO, you've thrown out a straw-man because you have no sound argument to make.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
"In a later poll, Musk wrote, "Let's try this then: the will of the people who live in the Donbas & Crimea should decide whether they're part of Russia or Ukraine." Over two million people have voted, with 58.2% choosing yes. "

That's the only sensible thing I've seen from Musk.
Everyone has their rare moments of clarity. Even Musk. :)
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,883   +4,894
TechSpot Elite
More hard-right leaning BS from the Cato institute?

You say let's "get out" of Ukraine seems to be the position that the hard-right takes in this dilemma. It was very similar to the position many Americans had about WW II, and look where that got them.

OK, How about a thought experiment? Since Russia did not come and invade Mexico and we don't know what would have happened, lets try another theoretical?

Suppose the world let Russia get away with invading Ukraine? Just what would be Putin's next target since he would almost certainly think something along the lines of "I'm not meeting any opposition. What else can I get to Make Russia Great Again?"

Seems to me there were some Russian grumblings, before they started getting the crap beat out of them, along the lines of "Watch out, we may decide to take Alaska back" I'm sure you heard them if you actually have anything to do with Alaska. Now that Russia is getting the crap beat out of them, have you heard any more such grumblings?

Or would you like having truly communist rulers having control of Alaska?

Putin is a clown living in the past pining for the "Good old days of the Republic" though those times are long gone.

I'll give you that there may be corruption in the Ukraine, but that should be left to the Ukrainians to resolve - not some autocratic communist A-hole brutal bully outsider who is living in the past, and sending his own citizens to be massacred.
We already know the next target, Moldova and the region of Transnistria.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,284   +7,658
We already know the next target, Moldova and the region of Transnistria.
That's why Putin needs to be stopped now! He won't stop if he is unopposed.
"In a later poll, Musk wrote, "Let's try this then: the will of the people who live in the Donbas & Crimea should decide whether they're part of Russia or Ukraine." Over two million people have voted, with 58.2% choosing yes. "

That's the only sensible thing I've seen from Musk.
On second thought, I really have to question whether that 58.2% figure is valid. It is well-known that in cases where anyone is tortured, those being tortured will say and do anything to make the torture stop. So if the Russian war on them has affected those voters, then the vote is almost certainly a sham, and Musk is demonstrating his utter cluelessness yet again.
 
To all the people who thinks, that people living in Donbas should decide either they want this region belong to Russia or Ukraine, think this: what if some citizens of Chicago say, they are not happy being in US and the want the whole state of Illinois to join the Canada? What would you say? Ok, let them decide or rather you are free to move to Canada?
 

GoldenGoat

Posts: 101   +146
Musk is good at taking government grants and starting companies that people want to invest in, but he should leave diplomacy to the experts. His idea would not work and all he accomplished was upsetting people.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 616   +850
find your focus, and fix this country, your own country before running off to do so elsewhere. or go live there. everyone is worried about the neighbors yard when yours is horrible. cmon yall.

Nice thought. In reality an industrial powerhouse like the US will always be dragged into these conflicts, because it makes strategic sense for belligerents to make damned sure that it becomes involved. That's one of the reasons why Pearl Harbour was such a bitter experience.