Employees return to Tesla following Elon Musk's demands, find there are not enough desks...

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m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
I don't mean to be combative, but isn't that a little condescending?

They don't think that they're special, they think that their employer is wrong, and they frequently are.
It is not your JOB to judge them... <-- that entitled nature is what people are talking about. If their is a legit grievance there are laws. But complaining about having to go to work to get paid is an adolescent mindset. If you leave there will be plenty of people to take your job.

WHats the phrase..? "You are in the real world now, not mommies house. Cope with it." ..?
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
It is not your JOB to judge them... <-- that entitled nature is what people are talking about. If their is a legit grievance there are laws. But complaining about having to go to work to get paid is an adolescent mindset. If you leave there will be plenty of people to take your job.

WHats the phrase..? "You are in the real world now, not mommies house. Cope with it." ..?
How is it adolescent? Its perfectly rational and normal for employees to ask for better terms and conditions. That's why there are unions, and it's a very normal reality of workforce relations in most places in the world.

During the pandemic, many employees have found that they can do their jobs just as well, if not better, under flexible arrangements. It's perfectly reasonable to argue for it if the circumstances are suitable.

In any case, your phrase applies to employers just as much as anyone else. In the real world they are now competing for skilled labour with outfits that offer these conditions.

Another phrase comes to mind, "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys"
 

scavengerspc

Posts: 2,651   +2,868
TechSpot Elite
I would bet good money that Musk's ultimatum was because he assumed many people would just quit. When they didn't and returned to resume their jobs, he laid them off.

No wonder the right loves the prick so much.

 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
How is it adolescent? Its perfectly rational and normal for employees to ask for better terms and conditions. That's why there are unions, and it's a very normal reality of workforce relations in most places in the world.

During the pandemic, many employees have found that they can do their jobs just as well, if not better, under flexible arrangements. It's perfectly reasonable to argue for it if the circumstances are suitable.

In any case, your phrase applies to employers just as much as anyone else. In the real world they are now competing for skilled labour with outfits that offer these conditions.

Another phrase comes to mind, "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys"

It is perfectly rational for an adolescent... to not want to go to work. Not to show up at work... to make work about themselves, instead of the job.

Unions are there for work employees who show up for work. Skilled labor can only be done at work.

Incredibly, we are talking about Twitter employees and if u want to work (ie type) from home, then chances are they don't need you. As anyone can type from home, even a high school grad. You do not need a college degree to work from home... even burger flippers go to work.

Like another CEO said, remote workers get 50% pay & if show up for work you get full pay... One could be working two-jobs (I could be working 60h work week at my current job... and also work at twitter remotely from that job) and just phoning it in...

How would Elon know...? Come to work..!
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
It is perfectly rational for an adolescent... to not want to go to work. Not to show up at work... to make work about themselves, instead of the job.

Unions are there for work employees who show up for work. Skilled labor can only be done at work.

Incredibly, we are talking about Twitter employees and if u want to work (ie type) from home, then chances are they don't need you. As anyone can type from home, even a high school grad. You do not need a college degree to work from home... even burger flippers go to work.

Like another CEO said, remote workers get 50% pay & if show up for work you get full pay... One could be working two-jobs (I could be working 60h work week at my current job... and also work at twitter remotely from that job) and just phoning it in...

How would Elon know...? Come to work..!

A waster is a waster in the workplace just as easily as at home. In any case, if you don't have any faith or trust in people then it's gonna be a moot point either way.

Do you have experience with remote working, remote working colleagues positive, negative or otherwise?
 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
A waster is a waster in the workplace just as easily as at home. In any case, if you don't have any faith or trust in people then it's gonna be a moot point either way.

Do you have experience with remote working, remote working colleagues positive, negative or otherwise?

I have no faith in people crying about having to come to work to get paid. Those who do and THEN make their case that they are better off at home, for the companies sake... are stand out.

Very few people are stand out... and cannot make their case.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
I have no faith in people crying about having to come to work to get paid. Those who do and THEN make their case that they are better off at home, for the companies sake... are stand out.

Very few people are stand out... and cannot make their case.
How do you know? What's your experience of this?

Most people had to work from home during the pandemic. And it was a period of growth for most companies..
 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
How do you know? What's your experience of this?

Most people had to work from home during the pandemic. And it was a period of growth for most companies..
How? If they are complaining from home, about having to go into work.... then you know.

Most people didn't work from home during COVID, they were off from work! And if they could (work from home) have showed their value to their employees that they can pay several people minimum wage to work at home, (not a single person full-time), but again TWO "at home" people doing 30h from home instead, & for much less. Understand what you are asking for and understand YOU won't have your job if it is that easy, the cheapest bidder will.

Supply & demand.. I want my employees here, taking showers every day and doing their hair and getting dressed up and looking professional (w/professional mindset). Questioningly... If they have no need to be here, then I can find ANYONE, ANYWHERE for that job... and I will take the lowest bidder... (ie India).


IMO, Twitter needs more professional employees, not self-entitled hipsters who can't face the public day to day... in which they live in a bubbled Society. And 20-somethings need to rub elbows with 40, 50 & 60 year olds.... Twitter has none of those people.
Elon knows this.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
How? If they are complaining from home, about having to go into work.... then you know.
They're not doing that at all. They're requesting more flexible options. Which they may well get if they leave and work for someone else.

Most people didn't work from home during COVID, they were off from work! And if they could (work from home) have showed their value to their employees that they can pay several people minimum wage to work at home, (not a single person full-time), but again TWO "at home" people doing 30h from home instead, & for much less. Understand what you are asking for and understand YOU won't have your job if it is that easy, the cheapest bidder will.
I worked at home along with all of my colleagues. And I did work. Probably more hours than usual, because I didn't have to commute. I did some of the best work of my career at that time, and got the highest performance reviews possible for both of those years, and a promotion to boot. My employers like me, and I like them. I continue to work between the office and my home, becasue it suits both myself and my employer. I made it work becasue I have the capability to do so.

I find it very amusing that someone would assume that I couldn't pull this
off... may I ask you again - what is your experience of this?

Supply & demand.. I want my employees here, taking showers every day and doing their hair and getting dressed up and looking professional (w/professional mindset). Questioningly... If they have no need to be here, then I can find ANYONE, ANYWHERE for that job... and I will take the lowest bidder... (ie India).
Sounds like Mad Men :D

In any case I don't think people from India will be able to commute to your office! You could consider offering remote working?

IMO, Twitter needs more professional employees, not self-entitled hipsters who can't face the public day to day... in which they live in a bubbled Society. And 20-somethings need to rub elbows with 40, 50 & 60 year olds.... Twitter has none of those people.
Elon knows this.
The self-entitled hipsters built a company that Elon wants to buy. Must have done something right.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
They're not doing that at all. They're requesting more flexible options. Which they may well get if they leave and work for someone else.


I worked at home along with all of my colleagues. And I did work. Probably more hours than usual, because I didn't have to commute. I did some of the best work of my career at that time, and got the highest performance reviews possible for both of those years, and a promotion to boot. My employers like me, and I like them. I continue to work between the office and my home, becasue it suits both myself and my employer. I made it work becasue I have the capability to do so.

I find it very amusing that someone would assume that I couldn't pull this
off... may I ask you again - what is your experience of this?


Sounds like Mad Men :D

In any case I don't think people from India will be able to commute to your office! You could consider offering remote working?


The self-entitled hipsters built a company that Elon wants to buy. Must have done something right.

No they were COMPLAINING about being told to come back to work, or else....

That is entitlement^

And you 100% missed the point. If they are NOT going to come into work... then what makes YOU so important to your Boss, that someone remotely from India can't do.... for half as much..?

If YOu want to work from home... then why should I pay you high wages, or equal wages to those who do come to work..? Do you understand..?

Elon say he could pay those who work at home half as much... and I agree.
 

nnguy2

Posts: 467   +968
No they were COMPLAINING about being told to come back to work, or else....

That is entitlement^

And you 100% missed the point. If they are NOT going to come into work... then what makes YOU so important to your Boss, that someone remotely from India can't do.... for half as much..?

If YOu want to work from home... then why should I pay you high wages, or equal wages to those who do come to work..? Do you understand..?

Elon say he could pay those who work at home half as much... and I agree.
Too bad you're not ceo. You can a company into the ground real fast.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
Too bad you're not ceo. You can a company into the ground real fast.
Listen, Twitter is doing a good enough job running itself into the ground... w/socially adolescent employees who have distorted views & their social bias shows.

If these youngsters learn to come to work and see how others work and act, they can learn social skills which make better & more valued employees
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
No they were COMPLAINING about being told to come back to work, or else....

That is entitlement^

And you 100% missed the point. If they are NOT going to come into work... then what makes YOU so important to your Boss, that someone remotely from India can't do.... for half as much..?

If YOu want to work from home... then why should I pay you high wages, or equal wages to those who do come to work..? Do you understand..?

Elon say he could pay those who work at home half as much... and I agree.

It's not entitlement, it's people looking after their own interests and asking for better terms, which is perfectly rational, they'd be mad not to - they know they can get better conditions elsewhere. Almost all employers out there now are offering some form of flexible working. This isn't McDonnalds here, some of these people are skilled and experienced employees that might take months or years to replace. Employers must compete for skilled labour as much as employees compete for good jobs. This is the reality that you seem to be oblivious to.

The replacement of staff with cheap Indian labour is an old trope. Indeed, that approach to labour market competition is a race to the bottom. It's speaks wretchedly of your character to assume that Indians are cheap, or that they could be exploited. Here's an amusing fact - in a recent survey 74% of Microsoft employees in India favourited flexible working arrangements. Sound familiar?

Let's talk about the real world, rather than then the narsissiatic fantasy you've concocted.

I don't work for you. I didn't ask you if I could work from home. You don't pay my wages.

I did actually ask my own employer for flexible arrangements about two years back.. my request was granted. Without hesitation, and indeed, there was really no good reason not to...
 

m3tavision

Posts: 769   +592
It's not entitlement, it's people looking after their own interests and asking for better terms, which is perfectly rational, they'd be mad not to - they know they can get better conditions elsewhere. Almost all employers out there now are offering some form of flexible working. This isn't McDonnalds here, some of these people are skilled and experienced employees that might take months or years to replace. Employers must compete for skilled labour as much as employees compete for good jobs. This is the reality that you seem to be oblivious to.

The replacement of staff with cheap Indian labour is an old trope. Indeed, that approach to labour market competition is a race to the bottom. It's speaks wretchedly of your character to assume that Indians are cheap, or that they could be exploited. Here's an amusing fact - in a recent survey 74% of Microsoft employees in India favourited flexible working arrangements. Sound familiar?

Let's talk about the real world, rather than then the narsissiatic fantasy you've concocted.

I don't work for you. I didn't ask you if I could work from home. You don't pay my wages.

I did actually ask my own employer for flexible arrangements about two years back.. my request was granted. Without hesitation, and indeed, there was really no good reason not to...
Yes, believing you can work from home and are special, over co-workers who goes to work, is exactly entitlement. Specially if you think u can demand the same pay. There mere fact you do not grasp this, explain everything.

What you do not UNDERSTAND is that if you hire an employee that doesn't come to work... then that employee doesn't need to even be in your Area/Country. So, If you want to work from home, then an employer has Millions of employees to fill that role and YOUR competition isn't with a few thousand people, but the lowest bidder out of millions worldwide.

It is called supply & demand.

Understand if you open up the market place to million of potential employees (from India & elsewhere) who will do YOUR job for half of what would be payed in the United States. That is the WORLD market. And yes the standard of living and the wages in the US are higher than in India.... that is not a trope.


Lastly, nobody is talking about you.... unless you work at Twitter.
Why would an employer pay the same wages to co-workers, when some show up for work, while others work from home..? Also, knowing this why would THOSE employee continue to work there (at those wages), knowing others get paid the same to work at home.... and not demand more money than those who don't come into work..?

See, you can not explain any of this, because your argument doesn't hold up in the workplace & work force.
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
I do understand your arguement perfectly. I'm merely pointing out that you're insisting on a polarised point of view that doesn't hold water in the real-politik of work force relations. You've got a strong opinion on the subject, but can't seem to offer any practical experience? Moreover, your remarks about people being entitled, adolescent, and not understanding your point of view are startlingly disparaging.

People don't ask to work from home out of a sense of entitlement. They do it when it makes sense. In many situations it comes with a list of benefits and reduced costs for both employer and employee. In relation to the pandemic specifically, people were told to work at home - for almost 2 years. And by and large its worked well enough that some degree of flexibility become a par for the course for many soft-skill and office workers all over the world.

At Tesla (which is the subject of the article, not Twitter), they've been told to return abruptly, which is understandably difficult for staff because it isn't easy to arrange things like childcare and travel arrangements overnight. Ironically most of the staff have gone back, and discovered their employer hasn't even provided the facilities and space required for them to carry out their work at the location. That suggests that mid level management weren't expecting it. It is perfectly natural for staff to suggest that they go back to working at home where possible, and there can't be any doubt that's exactly what's happening behind the scenes until they sort out space and desks. Moreover, the world and it's mother knows that knows that Tesla needs to reduce headcount, and that the call to return is probably a calculated way to encourage employees to leave on their own accord.

In relation to your remarkable comments about employing remote staff at half the cost from India - that is an old idea that is tried and tested. Outsourcing roles to India and China was a popular thing back in the late ninetees and early 2000's. It didn't always work out, and many organisations who tried it rowed back. There's a massive difference between a domestic flexible worker who can still come into the office on the odd days when they're needed, and a remote worker on another continent and time-zone. Indeed if it did work, there would have been a tsunami impact on jobs and living standards in the west. As it turned out it don't make a dent.
Besides, there aren't as many people in India as you think who would want to work for a cynical employer half a world away for peanuts on the dollar. If they're capable enough they'll have better options. If they're not, then it's not worth the bother..
 
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