Importance of school

By twite · 63 replies
Feb 4, 2008
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  1. 12 years i have spent, studying page 402, writing stupid essays about how my summer was, learning when Abe Lincoln was born.

    I always disliked school, but i never knew why. At first i was just pissed off at it in general, thinking it was useless, but then i realized i was right; it is. Useless? Yes. Most people will disagree. That is ok. What you learn in school is just some brain food for what the government is setting you up for. Go to school, learn some stupid sh*t like logarithms, and stoichiometry. Do i really need to know how many moles a substance has? No. Do i need to know the log base of the equation, and how to change it to exponential? No. Ok, this may just be high school, but what about college? What does college mean? Absolutely nothing. Just means that you have enough will to go 2, or 4 years just to prove yourself to society. The few that do it for themselves, congratulations, you can now spend the rest of your life working. Then when you turn 65....wait, you won't be able to afford you healthcare, so don't look that far ahead.

    What i am trying to get to, is that i have basically been insulted by society. Society has put up certain expectations, and disregard the rest. Most of the people that really matter, are the ones that are miles below the surface, so far down that they will never be heard.

    If i had the will to prove myself to some man with a brain pattern as steady as a dead mans heart, i would do it in an instant. If i wanted to be set up, like so many people currently are, i would be writing me english essay right now instead of this. Fortunately for me, and unfortunately for many others, i have no need to prove myself to society.

    I guess the point of this was to seek other users opinions on this issue, and if anyone else has the same standpoint as I. Thank you to the few that will actually read this, unlike the rest that have been it, see the length, and immediately be discouraged.
  2. tuant

    tuant TS Booster Posts: 202

    I have a question
    If you were an employer looking for a system network administrator and two people apply with the same amount of work experience, however one has a masters in the field, who would you most likely hire?

    What I am trying to say is school does matter, whether it be home school or public school. How would you be able to write what you wrote above if you did not receive an education?
  3. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    Exactly my point, is that why humans exist, so they can go to school, work, and die?

    I would rather start my own business, right out of high school. Am i going to be able to? No, because the government wasted the last 12 years of my life feeding me crap. In the 4 years i spent in high school, i could have actually learned something that matters.

    And even that is still stretching the limit of conformity that i am comfortable accepting.

    I could communicate this to you with a second grade education, i really could. It would not be nearly as clear, but i could still get my point across. The fact that i actually have some decent sentence structure, you can think Mrs. Sprigings for that. The content here, is not found in the Public education system. They do not teach you this stuff, and for a reason.

    My high school is a very ironic scene. Next to it is a clothing bank. Next to that is a foodbank. Next to all those, is massive amounts of trash polluted by the students. I recently did some community service, mostly because i wanted some insight in society. At first i thought i was picking up trash, and then i realized that the trash was what my society was. This trash represented the people that live here. Uneducated on what this trash would do the to the earth, they just tossed it in the side walk, kind of what the government did to those people. Just tossed them in a pool of millions of others just like them.

    Now, Most of my concern is not about me in general, i am not to worried about my self. Rather it is about the education system in general. The people that are being produced today, is a mirror of ignorance.

    And as far as hiring people, i would not hire a drone. Not saying that all people with an "EDUCATION"..whatever that means, are drones, rather in modern day, with such high competition for anything, accomplishing something almost requires you to become one. That is not what i want to be, another ant of society.
  4. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    Now let me ask you a question...

    Would you rather learn about network infrastructure, or cure world hunger, or racism, and get paid just as well to do it?
  5. Nodsu

    Nodsu TS Rookie Posts: 5,837   +6

    Hmm.. And how do you think your business would go if you didn't know what "percent" means?

    The purpose of lower and middle education is to:
    - provide essential skills to function in our society (unfortunately many parents are no good at this)
    - throw a wide variety of knowledge at children and see what sticks.

    All that stuff that is "useless" to you may be some else's calling. Ideally this is how talents are discovered and right people are pointed to right directions. After HS you (hopefully) have some idea what you are good at and what you like and you can choose the suitable area in college (or equivalent). Or, just say "screw it" and go work in McDonald's.

    If you happened to go to bad schools that didn't fulfill their purpose and somehow prevented you from educating yourself in the areas that interest you, then this is your personal tragedy and not a reason to say that the whole education system is crap.
  6. kimsland

    kimsland Ex-TechSpotter Posts: 14,523

    twite, you are absolutely right, but you are not suppose to be aware of this until you're very old.

    I know most around here think I have a reasonable knowledge (hopefully high) but I did the entire of High School (obviously) then went on to college, and then onto University.

    After ~11 years of further education, and then working in for respectful positions for another ~15 years, getting paid stacks; I eventually quit !!!

    What the hell is all this crap I thought. Years of study and work torture, when others would push a lawnmower around and laugh (ignorantly) all day. They had the life not me.

    Yes I respect doctors and scientists (and worked along side of them at stages) if that's what they want to do, then fabulous; what a fun job for them. But you may notice that the football players and alike, seem to be the happy ones, drunk in jail, and stupid to the hilt, but laughing all the way, with everyone's respect. WTF !

    I say, if I was 18 again. I wouldn't get hitched up or tied down to work and school. I travel (working -picking fruit, or whatever) See the world twite while you're young. If you come back (hopefully not, for your sake) by 23 years old (5 whopping years later) You'll be better for it, and much happier, to start your own business, doing whatever you like.

    Don't ask learned people, should I study, go and ask someone who's happy !

    Here come the replies - how dare I say that. Lets just say money, school and work aint all that it's suppose to be. Better to enjoy life. Now dispute that.

    I appreciate that I have many grammatical errors (and more) in all this, I wrote it in a few minutes off the top of my head, but I'm not going to proof read and edit it, I'm happy with it.
  7. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    You see, that is the sad thing, is that very few are aware of this until they are on there death bed. Happened to my grandparents, and i am witnessing it happen to my mother. I don't want to be like that. I don't want to work in an oreo factory for 30 years, 14 hours a day, only to gain enough retirement money to live happily for 5 years before dying.

    If school taught kids social values, and then used highschool as a way to prepare kids for a "happy", successful career, this world would be a lot better place.

    Nodsu, i see your point. But then again i have known what i wanted to do since i was 10. That is not true with everyone, but believe me, no one needs to know George Washingtons birthday in order to appropriately choose what they want to be when they "grow up". I could have learned everything i needed to know in high school in a week. But instead my valuable time was wasted, only to roll out there stupid agenda on me.
  8. kimsland

    kimsland Ex-TechSpotter Posts: 14,523

    Actually the minimal learning areas like Americas history (which I didn't have to do, because I'm not in the proud ! USA) Is meant for you to extend your knowledge further, bla bla bla. But you should know that already - baby steps.

    As for WHY, if that's the question, then it's for control and taxes, nothing else. Problem is some of us don't want to be little soldiers, or even religious sheep. Sounds like you're one of those. You don't see that, much from your controlled country. Most of the other English speaking world, think americans are a tad over the top with patriotism and all. (not unlike the Iraqians - very dedicated, as if they're the be all and end all)

    You should've been born a thousand years from now (when the world is about to end - I know most say 50 years!) They probably will be living free, without money and hatred.

    I've said all I can
  9. SNGX1275

    SNGX1275 TS Forces Special Posts: 10,742   +418

    If you guys want to drop out of high school and do jobs that require 8 hours or less of your time each day and then be done with it, then great. Society depends on people that are satisfied with that, just as society depends on those that spent many years getting an education.

    I think many people (we've had similar threads before) around here think that you can just start your own buisness, enjoy that, retire young, and travel the world. I think this is partially to blame because this is primarily a computer tech forum and a lot of troubleshooting and building of computers can be done with little to no formal education. Then on top of that you have the occational person (or someone that knows one) that didn't go to college, or dropped out and now they got hired and are making good money. The barriers to entry in the computing field are remarkably low compared to other professions because of the rapidly changing environment and the relative ease of self education. You then see those people as the 'smart' ones, they didn't 'waste' 4+ years of their life in college to become a mindless 'drone'.

    You can't do that in most other professions, now there is some truth to the argument that part of the purpose of college is to show employers that you can stick with something for 4 years but that isn't anywhere near the only reason. I don't personally know anyone that went to college for 4+ years that thought of their time as a waste, many of us had the best years of our life in college, built relationships that help us land a career and advance.

    A large amount of research and innovation comes out of universities, advancements in any number of fields happens on a daily basis. Without the knowledge base built up in 4 or 6 or 8 years of classes many of those advancements would not be possible. Again here is where I think a lot of TS members have a skewed sense of what is possible, you can't self teach yourself in many other science and engineering fields.

    If you think the way the US and many other 1st World countries' education system is BS, then I'm sorry you feel that way, but that is largely why these countries are the world leaders. If you'd rather lead a simplier life I think you can do that, there are plenty of low responsibility low time commitment jobs out there. I think many of us would prefer to be able to go through life without many cares, just enjoying everything, ingesting/inhaling substances that made us feel even better. But that isn't a realistic expectation to have.
  10. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    Obviously, not being in college, someone like you with college experience will have a different, and probably more valid opinion on what it is like. On the other hand, currently attending high school in the state of Arizona, the education system is a complete joke, different from when you where a kid. Today we took what was called the "standford 10" test. One of the questions was "which is a matter of opinion"?. A few of the possible answers where "the crowd enjoyed the performance", "the ticket price was $10", "the show started at 6". As said before, i am literally insulted that this is an instrument to measure my intelligence. This question summed up the last 12 years of my education in only a few words. Pointless.

    I do not think school is unnecessary, only the context. I do not think college in unnecessary, only the purpose of which millions of people attend it every year. To say they did.

    I can see your point about the "do it yourself attitude" of many techies. Fortunately, i am not one of those people. I have no motivation to create any kind of career off my current knowledge. At the age of 17, i bought my first car, cash, $20,000. No, not my mother, Me. I have been doing home theather installation for about 2 years now, and have been able to support myself doing it. I have no intention to continue doing this, but behind every business takes money. That is what many people do not realize. Fortunately for me, i have money waiting for me in a very unfortunate way. My father passed away, and i inherited enough to invest it in one way or another, and hopefully get to the point where i can live off that by started a business, or just simply investing it. Of course, a business degree in college would help with this, but spending my high school days learning about world war 1 will not. And that is what i am upset about.
  11. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,157   +458

    Twite, you are looking at a narrow view of the world. Right now at your age you have the luxury of only thinking of yourself and what you want to do. That's great and enjoy it as long as you can. I know I would. Later in life you might have children or other responsibilities for whom you might willingly sacrifice the freedom to do whatever strikes your fancy. Consider that your own parents might have had their own dreams but perhaps life forced them to compromise. I don't mean to be overly dramatic but perhaps you see my point.

    Colleges and universities are not just places to pass the time just to say you did it. That does a disservice to those who take their education seriously and are trying to actually learn something. For some, finding the means to go to college is difficult and if they make it, the accomplishment is a treasured one that they do not take for granted. College is not necessarily a trade school that teaches you X skills and then you get a job. In some cases like doctors, lawyers, engineers and other professionals, that is more or less the case but for the majority of others it trains them to be a better informed member of the society of which you speak. Higher education helps train them to think, to help solve societies problems not just be the complaining victims of it. If you are unmotivated and don't care to attend a college or university, that's your choice but don't denigrate those who do.

    IMHO, there is more to life than taking care of oneself, although that is definitely important. As a member of society you might one day vote for your local or national leaders. Without knowledge of history, political systems, economics and the like, how do you make an informed choice? Granted, a lot of people don't but that's no excuse. These are some of the people you expect to run society and solve it's problems. If you choose unwisely, do you have a right to complain? You might choose to run for office yourself. If you are ignorant of history, you might find it difficult to avoid repeating past mistakes.

    IMO, schools should not be responsible for teaching you social values. Whose social values should be taught in school? Who decides? That job belongs to your parents. Yes, schools can give you information and you can decide things for yourself but your core values come from how you were raised and what your parents taught you. If and when you have children of your own, you shall decide what values they learn, not a school administrator. Well, anyway that is how I see it.

    Edited to correct typo.
  12. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    I agree, they are not, but that is the way it is. Mostly because of the unacceptability of those whom do not complete college, that is almost demanded, even if you have no motivation to attend.

    In my opinion, history, is history. i could get through life just as happily not knowing 99% of the stuff i do. If at some point, i decided to become a politician, i would then began my studies on that topic. If i decided to become a scientist of some sort, i would study that. I don't see any reason for general studies for a 15 year time period. k-7 is reasonable, as it actually teaches you stuff you need to know (alphabet, spelling, commons sense, basics). After that, and all through high school it is pure nonsense.

    Honestly, i can't really express what i mean when i say how horrible Americas education system is. At least Arizona's. I know a lot of you older folks find this hard to believe, because of how prosperous America is, but trust me, i am witnessing our future first hand, and it does not look good. To know that my fellow classmates will be running this country in about 20 years, makes me cringe.
  13. kimsland

    kimsland Ex-TechSpotter Posts: 14,523

    I accept change

    And also, even the American Indians, taught history
    It avoids making the same mistake, and helps in guiding us to where we are going.

    Maybe the American History finer details, are a bit much. But every country has a little or their history in the curriculum , all the way to year12
  14. LNCPapa

    LNCPapa TS Special Forces Posts: 4,263   +453

    Considering the topic I'm truly surprised by the responses in this thread. It hasn't spun off into a flame war and instead people are giving well thought out answers. I can't fault you for having your own beliefs, but I really think you'll change your tune once you've had children. I had thoughts similar to these floating around in my head even after I started college, but now that I'm sitting here typing this up with one hand while holding my sleeping younger daughter in the other I'm happy that I went to college. I'm able to provide anything my kids could possibly need or even want and in hindsight I have to credit my education. If I were completely wealthy with no need to ever work again I'd become a full time student and make sure that I could answer whatever questions my daughters have for me. One day you may know how rewarding it is to be able to answer, "Why is the sky blue?" or "How does a plane fly?"
  15. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    First i want to thank everyone for there opinion. It has really helped me look at education differently. Well, at least as far as college goes.

    But still, i am a very impatient person, and do not have the patience to be spoon fed agenda. I think at the collegiate level, there is very little B.S, if any. It is the real deal, at least for some people (unlike my sister that is a junior in a 2 year college). But still, i cannot stress enough how useless highschool material is. I really wish you older folks could experience it first hand. It is like chinese water torture, they just drip the same crap on you over and over again, and drag it out for years.

    The most recent assignment for my american studies class was a recap of the year 2007. As i said earlier, i cannot stress enough how ridiculous it is. To even further what i mean, i took a picture of the assignment, and here it is-

    the very first question on the assignment is "name a celebrity that spent time in jail this year, and what crimes did she commit? There is 3 pages of this crap. A school, funded by the government, glorifying the medias invasion of privacy, and forcing it on there students as a grade. Yes, this is a grade. An american studies assignment, about britteny spears, and micheal vick.

    This is why i have a "narrow view of the world", a very shallow one at that.
  16. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,157   +458

    Me too. LOL. To be fair, I know of some very bright kids who are motivated to learn and are looking forward to attending a good university. These are the kind of people I hope will be some of our future leaders, not just in politics but in business and the professions too.

    To be honest, I didn't always like history. There was so much of it, it happened so long ago (it seemed to me) and I couldn't relate to most of it. Now, however, I find history quite interesting. Not just American history but other countries' histories too. European history is complicated and difficult to follow but interesting nonetheless. I tend to favor ancient history, like the migrations of various peoples, Germanic tribes, Celts, Greeks, Romans, Huns and others.

    BTW off topic, just curious, twite, ever been to Mt. Lemmon near Tucson? I went once to the small ski area there.

    Edit: twite, I didn't see your latest comments until after I posted mine. Mine sat for a long time before I finally finished. I should have refreshed the screen. Anyway, look at the assignment from a different perspective and consider that the point of it is not so much about the celebrities themselves but as a writing and research exercise. I think the teacher is just trying to use people he/she thinks you can relate to instead of using long dead historical figures.
  17. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    I go to mt lemmon fairly regularly, it is a great place to get away from the summer heat. I have also gone skiing there a few times as well (snoball), but the black diamond slopes are usually very poor.

    As far as the assignment, i do see your point. But still, this will do nothing but merely waste me time. All it took for me was a few clicks of the mouse, and the nifty google search in the upper right hand corner. But once again, don't over analyze and one particular example. The point i am trying to get across is not that this one particular assignment is unnecessary, rather that the whole basis of the school system is. This assignment is just a mere representation of the way everything is around here.
  18. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,157   +458

    Well, I certainly get your point that you don't care for school in general. Maybe one day you'll look back and not judge it so harshly.
  19. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,754   +2,429

    Ah youth, It's a pity it's wasted n the young.....

    Immaturity is bragging about what you think you know. Maturity is humbly realizing all that you don't.

    This is really self aggrandizing and self indulgent. If anybody failed to read the whole thing it's probably because it's not particularly interesting or even well written. You're smarter than everybody who's trying to teach you, you're better than them, and you don't have to prove it. We're basically too lazy and ignorant to access all this largesse you've provided us. I'm fairly "Americanized" and this doesn't seem like that hard of a read to me. I guess I'm not really bright enough to fully comprehend it, whaddya think?
    If you'd have paid any attention in English you'd know that the pronoun "I" is always capitalized. This seems like the ideal situation to seize upon for someone with a truly overinflated sense of self worth such as yourself.
    The nice thing about not wanting or needing to learn a bunch of useless things in school, is that it saves plenty of space in your head for all those wonderful thoughts about how far you are above all that.
    I suppose that if you can get by on bluster and ego, more power to you. But be aware, there aren't that many people in the world as impressed with you as you are. But hey, what do they know.

    Should I go on here? I don't want this post to be inaccessable, or turn any body off with the length of it.
  20. subcan

    subcan TS Rookie Posts: 51

    twite, I read your posts and those replied to your posts and I become quite frustrated. I have been thinking about this one for a while as I hunt through other areas of this forum...
    I still cannot quite fully grasp my thoughts. The levels of reality that are hit by these posts are mind numbing.
    I understand that you are not adequately challenged by today’s educational system. This is too bad. At the same time there are a lot of people out there that are challenged by the question that you posted above… "Which is a matter of opinion?" This also is too bad. How do you teach someone grade school fundamentals while in high school? If they haven't grasped them yet or are only just getting them... well that is good and too bad at the same time. How do you change this trend when they continue to have children? (Just my little poke - clear, analytical thinking is a relative concept?)
    So this brings the question of what do you do when there are the smart and the stupid, the ones that can learn and cannot learn (from the educational system teaching styles – verbal, visual, written), those who are ‘gifted’ and those who are not, those who want and those who want not… This creates an unfair world. Challenge the ‘challenged’ and the ‘unchallenged’ will remain unchallenged. On the other hand challenge the ‘unchallenged’ and they become challenged, while the ‘challenged’ become lost. (sort of like me and my thoughts <hehe>) Is it really worth challenging the ‘challenged’? I think that it is. They make up a good chunk of our society.
    Now with regards to education being a waste of time. I did not continue past high school. I used to have many of the same thoughts as you. I was not challenged and did not find it worthwhile to seek ‘extra credit’ to challenge myself. I look back and realize that I missed the big picture. Our society is based on education, and it is very hard to get to the top of a company on merit alone. Many times decisions are made without a face; just a resume. The person with the Masters or PHD will make it to the next level 99% of the time. This is in the corporate world. So if the corporate grind is ones drive then an education makes a world of sense. Just do the time and our society will open up granting the right to “prove one’s self.” At the end of the day I have met a lot of stupid smart people and they usually don’t prove themselves very well, but still end up being my boss. This makes life frustrating too.
    You have expressed the entrepreneurial spirit in your posts. Here is where America is so great. This involves providing a product or service that society has deemed worth paying for. They don’t care what your educational status is, but that the product or services meets their needs. Provide it and they will make you successful. What is success… well that is another topic that could be delved into in great depth. Most of the people that buy your product on the other hand do work for the man and provide ‘the man’s’ product or service, and this job is usually attained by educational status. This is why education is so important for them and for you.
    Being an entrepreneur requires you to self educate though, so now we get back to education. Whether it is a plaque on the wall or just knowledge to accomplish what you set your mind too, it is still education. There is a lot that goes into managing a business. A certificate in Business Management would be beneficial. I am presently working on my PMP (project management professional) certification. I hate all the work involved, learning what I already know, but at the same time, I have learned that there are many things that I can do differently in my project management strategies. This will highly improve the success my future projects as I build my new business.
    Basically I am saying that I agree with your premise, but like many of the other posters on this topic, I think that there is something to be said for education. I encourage you to pursue your desire to be an entrepreneur. Sounds like you have what it takes and the financial ability to make your dreams a reality. Go for it and go hard.
    Just my thoughts.

    Added afterthought: try this test to give yourself a challenge
  21. subcan

    subcan TS Rookie Posts: 51

    What a great word. Outstanding. I will try to use it tomorrow in a convesation.
  22. M0R0NI

    M0R0NI TS Rookie Posts: 86

    I know that getting an education (wether it is usless or not) will help you in life. I know of cases where two people wanted the same job. One had 0 experience in the field and a degree (not related to the field) and the other had over 10 years in the field and no degree. The second could not even apply for the job because of not having the degree. No matter if it is right or not people want to hire people with a degree.
  23. twite

    twite TechSpot Paladin Topic Starter Posts: 937

    Once again, thanks for your criticism /opinions ext. You all have been very helpful in many ways.

    I can see where you find me ignorant or "self indulgent", and honestly i have nothing to argue against that. Quite frankly, you are probably 100% right. Growing up how i did, and where i did, fatherless, and basically motherless, thanks to a drunk driver at age 14, switching schools 4 times in less then a year, moving cross country with a family that i hardly knew, really made me look at life a lot differently. From my standpoint, i needed to focus on myself, and only myself. It hurt me, but relieved a lot of what i needed to get out. At this point in my life, most of my focus is on myself, which is why i very easily come off as self indulgent.

    Americanization. Find that offensive? So do i. Mostly because i am a victim just like almost everyone else. How would i know that most people see a long article and turn away? Because i do it myself regularly. It was not meant to come off offensively, mostly because the people that would have been offended would be the people that did not read the thread.

    As far as not capitalizing the letter I, in english class i will capitalize it, but i didn't know an internet forum was a class assignment, i will keep that in mind.

    And maturity? As far as that goes, i would like to think everyone here that maturely gave me insight on the topic. I couldn't have asked for anything better. I appreciate those that gave there opinions on college; i have actually changed my perspective on the importance of college. High school has given me a grim look at the educational system in general, mostly because my deep frustration of this particular stage.
    Couldn't agree more, and that is what i find very sad about society. Is there are certain educational guidelines in order to accomplish almost everything. And i think that is wrong. I could go to college for 8 years, work for Billies real estate for 12, and john over there could still be the better person for the job. But that is not the way it is. Just because someone went to college, they are automatically the "better person". I see your point about the conflicts of the challenged, and the non challenged. Here in Arizona, it is more or less the somewhat challenged, and the challenged. The no child left behind program did not help that. So basically, and person with any kind of outside education, is the child left behind. It has literally flipped over the education system, to benefit the people that least need it. I guess that i just the way it is.
  24. kimsland

    kimsland Ex-TechSpotter Posts: 14,523

    Yes that's right, you need qualifications to get into the door- Fully covered

    Don't forget to enjoy life !
    Please post back in 30 years on the hologram computer, or just use your friendly android.

    It'll be nice to know which way worked for you.

    Good luck. :)
  25. Cinders

    Cinders TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 872   +12

    twite you assume that you can learn nothing from the past, so you are free to repeat the mistakes others have already made. If school has nothing to offer you then convince your mother to withdraw you and start your own life. And for Tog's sake quit bitching.

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