Is the Steam survey feeling the chip shortage's effects?

midian182

Posts: 7,419   +65
Staff member
The big picture: The latest Steam survey has dropped, and the biggest takeaway for the month, other than AMD continuing its resurgence, is apparent signs of the chip shortage. Only five graphics cards made gains of over 0.10%, with the most significant increase belonging to the GTX 1660, which jumped by just 0.35%.

Starting with the CPU category, AMD will be pleased to see more Steam users turning to their processors as it erodes Intel’s lead. There was a surprise in August when team red fell to its lowest point in the year to date—27.31%—but it bounced back a month later to pass the 30% milestone. In October, 0.69% more survey participants were using AMD chips, pushing its share to a new high of 30.84%.

Checking Amazon’s best-selling CPU list shows AMD is once again dominating the chart, taking seven of the ten slots. Intel has two, including the Alder Lake Core i9-12900K that arrives this week, in fifth. There’s also a controller emulator in third place—it seems the ‘Zen’ part of the name is confusing Amazon.

The graphics card section looks different this month, not just because the top six cards all lost ground. Arranging the chart by percentage increase shows how even the best-performing product of the month, the GTX 1660, jumped by just 0.35%. For comparison, August’s biggest gainer was the RTX 2060 with 1.35%. Additionally, only seven entries managed gains of 0.10% or more, and several of these are integrated or mobile GPUs.

The lack of significant movement in the graphics card section may reflect their general lack of availability and increasing price. A recent report showed Ampere and RDNA 2 continue to get more expensive and harder to find, with team red’s latest close to their highest-ever average selling price.

Elsewhere, more survey participants are using Linux than ever before (1.13%), and around 40% of these systems are powered by AMD CPUs. Windows 11 entered the OS chart with a 1.82% share, and the Oculus Quest 2, which is removing its requirement for a Facebook account, cemented its position at the top (33.19%) of the VR charts.

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noel24

Posts: 779   +975
Well, that controller emulator actually looks affordable for AMD part. Will It fit AM4?
 

Achaios

Posts: 271   +769
"Chip Shortage" is a big, fat lie.

There is no "Chip Shortage" for the Miners, only for gamers.

GPU's have been turned into money-printing machines therefore there is infinite demand from Miners.

There is no actual "chip shortage", it's artificial b/c of insatiable demand from Miners.
 

Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
AMD 6000 series have been low at all times in steam hw survey. Ampere have been there since day one and have way more marketshare in general. Ampere is also better for mining, so that is not the reason why AMD is not represented.

AMD 6000 series are actually decent (apart from 6600 series maybe) but I guess AMD have to prioritize CPUs and console APUs at TSMC, because they have limited prodution.

I hope 6nm will help put some load off 7nm. Intel will be using this soon for Arc and AMD will shift some chips to 6nm as well.
 

eforce

Posts: 629   +776
It's more profitable for GPU manufacturers to sell directly to miners on the condition of limited/no warranty and in bulk.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,199   +1,054
AMD 6000 series have been low at all times in steam hw survey. Ampere have been there since day one and have way more marketshare in general. Ampere is also better for mining, so that is not the reason why AMD is not represented.
You won’t see most Ampere GPUs that miners have bought on the steam hardware survey as most miners don’t install steam. Most of them use custom builds of Linux.
 

Stardude82

Posts: 12   +3
Weird that the GTX 1070 showed a small increase? Decommissioned mining cards being put on the market?

A bump in 2060s makes sense as a tranche of them were released this year.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,401   +1,034
AMD 6000 series have been low at all times in steam hw survey. Ampere have been there since day one and have way more marketshare in general. Ampere is also better for mining, so that is not the reason why AMD is not represented.

AMD 6000 series are actually decent (apart from 6600 series maybe) but I guess AMD have to prioritize CPUs and console APUs at TSMC, because they have limited prodution.

I hope 6nm will help put some load off 7nm. Intel will be using this soon for Arc and AMD will shift some chips to 6nm as well.
It's just Steam survey that sucks big time. There are tons of proof about it, this time highlight:

AMD's fourth most popular GPU is AMD Radeon Graphics. While it gained only 0.10% from previous month, it appeared on charts with 1.01% share. That's pretty amazing. I wonder where I can buy this AMD Radeon Graphics, it seems to be so popular right now.

Elsewhere, again Steam Statistics do not reflect actual sales data:

Before anyone even bothers to mention that is only one shop, those are actual sale data from big shop. Not any randomized BS crap like Steam Survey...
 

Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
It's just Steam survey that sucks big time. There are tons of proof about it, this time highlight:

AMD's fourth most popular GPU is AMD Radeon Graphics. While it gained only 0.10% from previous month, it appeared on charts with 1.01% share. That's pretty amazing. I wonder where I can buy this AMD Radeon Graphics, it seems to be so popular right now.

Elsewhere, again Steam Statistics do not reflect actual sales data:

Before anyone even bothers to mention that is only one shop, those are actual sale data from big shop. Not any randomized BS crap like Steam Survey...
Steam HW Survey reflects the market just fine.
Ryzen gained marketshare when it was supposed to.

Radeon 6000 series barely have any marketshare compared to Ampere; Why? Because AMD barely shipped any Radeon 6000 series cards, compared to Nvidia, which has been shipping them in huge numbers since Q3 2020. Going with Samsung was the best decision Nvidia made in years. They saw this coming. TSMC is heavily overbooked.

Those sales numbers are 100% wrong. I work with b2b sales in Europe and I see the backorders - AMD lacks SEVERELY and Nvidia sits on 90% of sales here. Why should US or Asia be any different?

AMD struggles with TSMC orders and have to prioritize their chip output, CPUs and APUs (mostly for consoles) gets the focus. Nvidia does not - They are spitting out Ampere chips in huge numbers at Samsung and soon Turing / RTX 2060 with 12GB at TSMC 12nm + RTX 4000 series on TSMC 5nm

Every single card is sold before it even hits the shelf anyway - Thats why Nvidia sits on 85% now, up from 83% just a few months ago and closing in on 86% - AMD is loosing more and more of the market.

Nvidia is looking to dominate AMD completely with several fabs and processes fulfilling the GPU demand from gamers and miners.

And Intel will focus directly at AMDs prime GPU segment; Low to Mid-end.
Future is not looking very bright for AMD GPUs unless they ups the output and lower prices - Nvidia and Intel will eat them up.

Only 1 out of 100 people would choose AMD over Nvidia if price/perf is the same and right now, AMD does not have better performance per dollar, especially considering no DLSS and mediocre ray tracing.

AMDs best selling GPUs in the last 5 years are all low end stuff; RX 580,570,480 and 470.

High-end AMD GPU's generally does not sell well. Making Radeon VII go EOL after 3 months did not help AMD to get people to buy their high-end stuff haha.

This GPU demand was AMDs golden oppotunity to grab some marketshare, but they blew it. Radeon 6000 series are not bad but when people can't buy them or need to pay double the price, people won't bother anyway. AMD products holds it value like Android products; Drops fast and hard.

Nvidia stuff holds the value like Apple products in comparison, sad but true. That's why people are willing to pay more and overall performance is better on Nvidia anyway, especially in lesser known titles and early access games; Dev's are optimizing and testing with Nvidia cards pretty much every time.
 
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Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
It's more profitable for GPU manufacturers to sell directly to miners on the condition of limited/no warranty and in bulk.
And it would (maybe) be even more profitable to keep the GPUs and use them for mining themselves.. This is not what they are doing tho..

If the GPU manufaturers don't care about their customers, their customers won't care about them, next time they upgrade

Demand is huge, supply is low and it is not only the GPU segment that has trouble, so you can stop blaming miners because total hashrate did not go up for a long time, meaning that miner's are not buying the GPU's at a fast rate anymore. GPU mining is becoming less and less profitable.
 

eforce

Posts: 629   +776
And it would (maybe) be even more profitable to keep the GPUs and use them for mining themselves.. This is not what they are doing tho..

If the GPU manufaturers don't care about their customers, their customers won't care about them, next time they upgrade

Demand is huge, supply is low and it is not only the GPU segment that has trouble, so you can stop blaming miners because total hashrate did not go up for a long time, meaning that miner's are not buying the GPU's at a fast rate anymore. GPU mining is becoming less and less profitable.
I don't blame miners (being one myself), I am just pointing out the reality of the situation, and miners are customers too and much more lucrative ones.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,401   +1,034
Steam HW Survey reflects the market just fine.
Ryzen gained marketshare when it was supposed to.

Radeon 6000 series barely have any marketshare compared to Ampere; Why? Because AMD barely shipped any Radeon 6000 series cards, compared to Nvidia, which has been shipping them in huge numbers since Q3 2020. Going with Samsung was the best decision Nvidia made in years. They saw this coming. TSMC is heavily overbooked.

Those sales numbers are 100% wrong. I work with b2b sales in Europe and I see the backorders - AMD lacks SEVERELY and Nvidia sits on 90% of sales here. Why should US or Asia be any different?
You do realize Ryzen is CPU, not GPU. And just looking at Steam Survey's GPU list, there are tons of errors.

I doubt you have any Real data about 6000-series GPU shipments? Basically you just say that Because Steam survey says this, it means that... And because Steam survey is wrong, so is your claim.

Yeah, large retailer supplies us with false data, agreed totally :D
AMD struggles with TSMC orders and have to prioritize their chip output, CPUs and APUs (mostly for consoles) gets the focus. Nvidia does not - They are spitting out Ampere chips in huge numbers at Samsung and soon Turing / RTX 2060 with 12GB at TSMC 12nm + RTX 4000 series on TSMC 5nm

Every single card is sold before it even hits the shelf anyway - Thats why Nvidia sits on 85% now, up from 83% just a few months ago and closing in on 86% - AMD is loosing more and more of the market.
Console chips are not AMD's production. Also there seems not to be capacity problems for CPUs. Why? CPU's, APU's and GPU's share same manufacturing process and CPU's have been more than adequate supply for long time. Again, you have no sources for your claims, just Steam Survey that is proven to be crap.

So because Nvidia cards are not available, it's just because they are sold before they get into sale? Problem: those buyers are most probably miners that surely won't use Steam survey. Again, your logic is badly flawed.
Nvidia is looking to dominate AMD completely with several fabs and processes fulfilling the GPU demand from gamers and miners.
Neither Nvidia or AMD have fabs 🤦‍♂️
And Intel will focus directly at AMDs prime GPU segment; Low to Mid-end.
Future is not looking very bright for AMD GPUs unless they ups the output and lower prices - Nvidia and Intel will eat them up.

Only 1 out of 100 people would choose AMD over Nvidia if price/perf is the same and right now, AMD does not have better performance per dollar, especially considering no DLSS and mediocre ray tracing.
Nvidia fanboy detected. DLSS gets eaten by FSR and Intel's XeSS. So far I have not seen any game that Really benefits on Ray tracing. Well, there are few but Nvidia cards are just too slow to run them smoothly. So who cares? RT on current cards are useless, just too slow.
AMDs best selling GPUs in the last 5 years are all low end stuff; RX 580,570,480 and 470.
Again, your "source" is Steam Survey.

It makes not much sense for AMD to make much RX580 class stuff because chip is quite large and it makes it hard to sell for profit. One more proof why Steam Survey is invalid.
High-end AMD GPU's generally does not sell well. Making Radeon VII go EOL after 3 months did not help AMD to get people to buy their high-end stuff haha.
Originally, it was not supposed to even be released and it was right away told it was limited edition.
This GPU demand was AMDs golden oppotunity to grab some marketshare, but they blew it. Radeon 6000 series are not bad but when people can't buy them or need to pay double the price, people won't bother anyway. AMD products holds it value like Android products; Drops fast and hard.

Nvidia stuff holds the value like Apple products in comparison, sad but true. That's why people are willing to pay more and overall performance is better on Nvidia anyway, especially in lesser known titles and early access games; Dev's are optimizing and testing with Nvidia cards pretty much every time.
Bwahaha. Just look how well high end card like GTX 980 Ti held it's value :D

Devs optimize for Nvidia because Nvidia's market share on consoles are pretty much zero? Right :p
 

Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
I don't blame miners (being one myself), I am just pointing out the reality of the situation, and miners are customers too and much more lucrative ones.

Not if they buy in bulk and/or abuse RMA when their cards are dying from 24/7 100% loads. This is not enterprise products, but consumer grade stuff. Luckily most miners will have flashed custom firmwares to lower watts and optimize hashrate, rendering the warranty useless anyway
 

Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
You do realize Ryzen is CPU, not GPU. And just looking at Steam Survey's GPU list, there are tons of errors.

I doubt you have any Real data about 6000-series GPU shipments? Basically you just say that Because Steam survey says this, it means that... And because Steam survey is wrong, so is your claim.

Yeah, large retailer supplies us with false data, agreed totally :D

Console chips are not AMD's production. Also there seems not to be capacity problems for CPUs. Why? CPU's, APU's and GPU's share same manufacturing process and CPU's have been more than adequate supply for long time. Again, you have no sources for your claims, just Steam Survey that is proven to be crap.

So because Nvidia cards are not available, it's just because they are sold before they get into sale? Problem: those buyers are most probably miners that surely won't use Steam survey. Again, your logic is badly flawed.

Neither Nvidia or AMD have fabs 🤦‍♂️

Nvidia fanboy detected. DLSS gets eaten by FSR and Intel's XeSS. So far I have not seen any game that Really benefits on Ray tracing. Well, there are few but Nvidia cards are just too slow to run them smoothly. So who cares? RT on current cards are useless, just too slow.

Again, your "source" is Steam Survey.

It makes not much sense for AMD to make much RX580 class stuff because chip is quite large and it makes it hard to sell for profit. One more proof why Steam Survey is invalid.

Originally, it was not supposed to even be released and it was right away told it was limited edition.

Bwahaha. Just look how well high end card like GTX 980 Ti held it's value :D

Devs optimize for Nvidia because Nvidia's market share on consoles are pretty much zero? Right :p

DLSS is far superior to FSR and DLSS has 100+ game support with pretty much all of them being optimized and working correctly. FSR is blurry just like DLSS 1.0 was.

Proof: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/deathloop-dlaa-vs-dlss-vs-fsr-comparison/

So nah, FSR and especially not XeSS will not make DLSS go away, because DLSS is superior and has Ultra Quality mode and DLAA too, something FSR will never be able to get.

You are the one thats clueless. XeXX is a 2part tech. One is open and the other is just like DLSS with hardware-requirement. Only works with Intel GPUs. Read up on XeSS before you act like a Guru maybe.

Nah Steam HW Survey is not wrong however most AMD fanboys can't accept the reality. AMD GPUs are selling insanely bad and being downplayed by AMD. All their chips are made on 7nm TSMC and they have to prioritize, this is logic 101 and a known fact.

I have more AMD chips than Intel and Nvidia chips in my house, fanboy? I see 😂

Reality; Most people won't buy an AMD GPU unless the performance/value is much higher than Nvidia. Nvidia have way better all-round performance and support in general. If you are in doubt, check out Techspots recent test with 3080 vs 6800XT and you will see that Nvidias performance across the board is more solid, this is especially true for early access games and lesser popular titles.

Sigh, never said Nvidia had their own fabs. I said they are going to use 3 DIFFERENT chip manufacturers/nodes to maximize their chip output; Samsung 8nm for Ampere. TSMC 12nm for Turing refresh in Q1 2022 and then RTX 4000 series on TSMC 5nm (priority over AMD because Nvidia have the cash to do so).

AMD is the small player, always will be. Thats why even Intel secured TSMC 3nm before AMD. AMD don't have the funds to use TSMCs best processes, the end. Apple owns the best nodes anyway.

And yeah, console chips are made by AMD designs on TSMC 7nm node and eats away from AMDs own CPU and GPU production. This is common knowledge. Do you think Microsoft and Sony makes them? 😂😂
 

eforce

Posts: 629   +776
Not if they buy in bulk and/or abuse RMA when their cards are dying from 24/7 100% loads. This is not enterprise products, but consumer grade stuff. Luckily most miners will have flashed custom firmwares to lower watts and optimize hashrate, rendering the warranty useless anyway
I am referring to the ones that have direct agreements with manufacturers.
 

HardReset

Posts: 1,401   +1,034
DLSS is far superior to FSR and DLSS has 100+ game support with pretty much all of them being optimized and working correctly. FSR is blurry just like DLSS 1.0 was.

Proof: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/deathloop-dlaa-vs-dlss-vs-fsr-comparison/

So nah, FSR and especially not XeSS will not make DLSS go away, because DLSS is superior and has Ultra Quality mode and DLAA too, something FSR will never be able to get.

You are the one thats clueless. XeXX is a 2part tech. One is open and the other is just like DLSS with hardware-requirement. Only works with Intel GPUs. Read up on XeSS before you act like a Guru maybe.
Over 100 games, and DLSS have been around for, two years or something? That's huge, yeah.

FSR was not supposed to be DLSS replacement but it's much easier to implement and more importantly, works with almost every video card that supports it.

Yeah? DLSS is not open. FSR is totally open. XeSS is partially open.

Now, which one of those will win? We have see many times that Nvidia's proprietary technologies tend to lose against open alternatives. G-sync is very good example.
Nah Steam HW Survey is not wrong however most AMD fanboys can't accept the reality. AMD GPUs are selling insanely bad and being downplayed by AMD. All their chips are made on 7nm TSMC and they have to prioritize, this is logic 101 and a known fact.
So far I have not seen single proof Steam Survey is reliable. Surprise?
I have more AMD chips than Intel and Nvidia chips in my house, fanboy? I see 😂

Reality; Most people won't buy an AMD GPU unless the performance/value is much higher than Nvidia. Nvidia have way better all-round performance and support in general. If you are in doubt, check out Techspots recent test with 3080 vs 6800XT and you will see that Nvidias performance across the board is more solid, this is especially true for early access games and lesser popular titles.
You mean like this? https://www.techspot.com/review/2191-geforce-rtx-3080-vs-radeon-6800-xt/
Starting with the 1440p data, we see that these GPUs are indeed even at 1440p. At most the 6800 XT was up to 20% faster, but we also saw instances where it was 13-17% slower. For half the games tested the margin was 5% or less, which we deem a draw. There were just 11 games out of 30 where the margin was 10% or greater in either direction.
"Better all-round performance", yeah. Just like AMD, it's faster on some games and slower on some.
Sigh, never said Nvidia had their own fabs. I said they are going to use 3 DIFFERENT chip manufacturers/nodes to maximize their chip output; Samsung 8nm for Ampere. TSMC 12nm for Turing refresh in Q1 2022 and then RTX 4000 series on TSMC 5nm (priority over AMD because Nvidia have the cash to do so).
Priority? Really? AMD is second biggest customer for TSMC and Nvidia gets priority? No way.

Samsung's 8nm is very crappy against even TSMC 7nm. Nvidia chose it only because it was cheap. Again, we are still missing data Nvidia has supplied more 3000-series cards than AMD has supplied 6000-series cards. Even that simple evidence is missing. Steam Survey is NOT evidence of any kind.

Also when Nvidia really uses TSMC 5nm, nobody cares about Ampere cards anymore. I highly doubt Nvidia wants to flood market with older models.
AMD is the small player, always will be. Thats why even Intel secured TSMC 3nm before AMD. AMD don't have the funds to use TSMCs best processes, the end. Apple owns the best nodes anyway.

And yeah, console chips are made by AMD designs on TSMC 7nm node and eats away from AMDs own CPU and GPU production. This is common knowledge. Do you think Microsoft and Sony makes them? 😂😂
Intel got small amount of risk production for TSMC 3nm, nothing else. AMD wasn't interested because of ultra high costs and small capacity.

Of course they are Microsoft and Sony products. To remind you, WSA didn't allow AMD to use any other foundry than Globalfoundries until 2019 without hefty fines. Even current console chip productions were agreed long before that. So simple.
 

Yenega

Posts: 302   +206
Over 100 games, and DLSS have been around for, two years or something? That's huge, yeah.

FSR was not supposed to be DLSS replacement but it's much easier to implement and more importantly, works with almost every video card that supports it.

Yeah? DLSS is not open. FSR is totally open. XeSS is partially open.

Now, which one of those will win? We have see many times that Nvidia's proprietary technologies tend to lose against open alternatives. G-sync is very good example.

So far I have not seen single proof Steam Survey is reliable. Surprise?

You mean like this? https://www.techspot.com/review/2191-geforce-rtx-3080-vs-radeon-6800-xt/

"Better all-round performance", yeah. Just like AMD, it's faster on some games and slower on some.

Priority? Really? AMD is second biggest customer for TSMC and Nvidia gets priority? No way.

Samsung's 8nm is very crappy against even TSMC 7nm. Nvidia chose it only because it was cheap. Again, we are still missing data Nvidia has supplied more 3000-series cards than AMD has supplied 6000-series cards. Even that simple evidence is missing. Steam Survey is NOT evidence of any kind.

Also when Nvidia really uses TSMC 5nm, nobody cares about Ampere cards anymore. I highly doubt Nvidia wants to flood market with older models.

Intel got small amount of risk production for TSMC 3nm, nothing else. AMD wasn't interested because of ultra high costs and small capacity.

Of course they are Microsoft and Sony products. To remind you, WSA didn't allow AMD to use any other foundry than Globalfoundries until 2019 without hefty fines. Even current console chip productions were agreed long before that. So simple.

DLSS is far better than FSR and DLSS is featured in most new AAA games these days, including BF2042, biggest PC release in years. Nvidia is years ahead and have a superior tech. FSR needs to be remade ground up to even come close to DLSS 2.x because it's nothing but a spacial upscaler with sharpening on top, hence the blur.

FSR can easily be implemented yeah, but that implementation is mostly trash unless it's perfected on a game per game basis. In many games injected FSR will lower visual quality and performance compared to NOT using it at all; Pointless... This has been tested several times. Google it. FSR is mostly a blurry mess like DLSS 1.0 was and there's tons of proof. In every single FSR vs DLSS 2.x comparison; DLSS wins. Sad but true.

Most games with FSR till now are crappy games (as in low metacritic scores), meanwhile DLSS is features in top AAA titles, pretty much every time. Nvidia pays developers for proper implementation and testing, because they can afford it. AMD can't, that is why they went the open source route. Open source does not make an inferior tech better. Adoption will be faster but end-result will be wonky AF. Which is what you see. Alot of crappy FSR implementations, blurry mess in most if not all. In games that have both FSR and DLSS 2.x - No one with a RTX card will be using FSR that is for sure.

You call me fanboy, yet you are the biggest AMD fanboy I have seen for a long time 😂 Everyone that don't agree with your AMD fanboyism are Intel and Nvidia fanboys I guess? 😂 I use all the brands and have most AMD chips in my house, so calm your tits.

Yes Nvidia gets priority, because using TSMCs best nodes is about HOW MUCH YOU CAN PAY and thats is why Apple owns their best nodes, at all times. AMD gets the sloppy seconds, and AMD don't want it anyway, because their pricing would be ruined. Why do you think AMD refreshes Zen 3 on 6nm (as in optimized 7nm) instead of going directly to 5nm? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT YET. 5nm AMD chips will come late 2022 at best and they will compete against Raptor Lake not Alder Lake.

Nvidia and Intel has far deeper pockets than AMD and this is why they can easily secure the same or even better nodes than AMD at TSMC.

Nvidia went with Samsung 8nm because they could deliver why do you think Ampere sold way better than RDNA2? Going with Samsung was a smart move, meanwhile AMD struggles to deliver GPU's. Nvidia is eating up marketshare for a reason. If Samsung is so bad, why does Nvidia win anyway? 3080 Ti beats 6900XT overall. 3080 beats 6800XT overall 😁 3070 beats 6700XT overall. And this is without DLSS enabled too. We can all cherry pick benchmarks but overall performance is what matters and Nvidia is ahead + has option for DLSS + has better Ray Tracing (by far).

Dude you have no knowledge about this 😂 AMD supplies chips to Microsoft and Sony. They make these chips at TSMC 7nm just like all their other chips. Console APUs take up alot of production capacity and this is why AMD can't deliver many GPU's because they are downplayed to supply CPUs and APUs instead.

Stop making things up and educate yourself please. This is common knowledge.

Yeah people will care for Ampere cards for the next many years. Because demand is high and supply is low, every GPU sells which is why Nvidia puts out RTX 2060 12GB soon too, made at TSMC 12nm.
Nvidia going for max output to supply and will eat up marketshare. Nvidia is closing in on 86% dGPU marketshare as we speak and Intel dGPUs will targets AMDs prime segment.

AMD needs to wake up or they will be at less than 10% dGPU marketshare in 1-2 years. You will see. Unless AMD cards don't deliver better performance for alot less than Nvidia, 99% will go the Nvidia route. AMD is the small player, always will be. And this is why most PC games are optimized and tweaked for Nvidia cards. Overall performance is simply more solid on a Nvidia card because most developers optimize (and use) Nvidia cards, just like 86% of the PC player base. LOGIC 101.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,401   +1,034
DLSS is far better than FSR and DLSS is featured in most new AAA games these days, including BF2042, biggest PC release in years. Nvidia is years ahead and have a superior tech. FSR needs to be remade ground up to even come close to DLSS 2.x because it's nothing but a spacial upscaler with sharpening on top, hence the blur.

FSR can easily be implemented yeah, but that implementation is mostly trash unless it's perfected on a game per game basis. In many games injected FSR will lower visual quality and performance compared to NOT using it at all; Pointless... This has been tested several times. Google it. FSR is mostly a blurry mess like DLSS 1.0 was and there's tons of proof. In every single FSR vs DLSS 2.x comparison; DLSS wins. Sad but true.

Most games with FSR till now are crappy games (as in low metacritic scores), meanwhile DLSS is features in top AAA titles, pretty much every time. Nvidia pays developers for proper implementation and testing, because they can afford it. AMD can't, that is why they went the open source route. Open source does not make an inferior tech better. Adoption will be faster but end-result will be wonky AF. Which is what you see. Alot of crappy FSR implementations, blurry mess in most if not all. In games that have both FSR and DLSS 2.x - No one with a RTX card will be using FSR that is for sure.
And? FSR was never meant to be as good as DLSS but much easier to adopt and open. DLSS too will lower visual quality and I rather take simple upscaler instead AI trying to tell me what I should see. Also FSR do not require any specialized hardware that creates more expensive and hotter chips.

Few AAA titles have DLSS = most have them? Nvidia pays for developers because no-one would use DLSS otherwise. AMD however gains support quickly without paying. It's just, when Nvidia stops paying, no-one uses DLSS anymore.
You call me fanboy, yet you are the biggest AMD fanboy I have seen for a long time 😂 Everyone that don't agree with your AMD fanboyism are Intel and Nvidia fanboys I guess? 😂 I use all the brands and have most AMD chips in my house, so calm your tits.
Because I asked sources for your claims but they are still missing, I call you fanboy.
Yes Nvidia gets priority, because using TSMCs best nodes is about HOW MUCH YOU CAN PAY and thats is why Apple owns their best nodes, at all times. AMD gets the sloppy seconds, and AMD don't want it anyway, because their pricing would be ruined. Why do you think AMD refreshes Zen 3 on 6nm (as in optimized 7nm) instead of going directly to 5nm? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT YET. 5nm AMD chips will come late 2022 at best and they will compete against Raptor Lake not Alder Lake.

Nvidia and Intel has far deeper pockets than AMD and this is why they can easily secure the same or even better nodes than AMD at TSMC.
It's not only how much you can pay but also how much you pay. That means, ordering a lot. Apple owns best nodes because they pay well AND make huge orders. Nvidia is little customer vs AMD so even AMD is paying less, TSMC still prefer AMD because total revenue from AMD is much bigger.

Why? Because:

1. Zen3 is made for 7nm and 6nm design rules are very close, so it takes very little effort to make 6nm Zen3.
2. AMD does not really need 5nm yet, Intel is so far behind.
3. Zen4 will use 5nm so why make old architecture for 5nm while you can make new one for it?

Rocket lake might have chance against Zen3 but not Zen3 with V-Cache, even less for Zen4.

Again, Intel and Nvidia are so small customers that TSMC gladly takes easy money from them but as seen with Apple, vip treatment is for those who pay AND order much.
Nvidia went with Samsung 8nm because they could deliver why do you think Ampere sold way better than RDNA2? Going with Samsung was a smart move, meanwhile AMD struggles to deliver GPU's. Nvidia is eating up marketshare for a reason. If Samsung is so bad, why does Nvidia win anyway? 3080 Ti beats 6900XT overall. 3080 beats 6800XT overall 😁 3070 beats 6700XT overall. And this is without DLSS enabled too. We can all cherry pick benchmarks but overall performance is what matters and Nvidia is ahead + has option for DLSS + has better Ray Tracing (by far).
Nvidia made decision years ago, not like yesterday. Where is source for "Ampere selled way better"? Steam survey is not source, since you can use multiple accounts on same machine and since Steam Survey does not reflect on sales data at all.

Beats? Nvidia cards are little faster but consume much more power. Guess what? Bigger chip and more power consumption always allow more speed on graphic cards. Nvidia being barely faster or not faster at all on much higher power consumption is not beating overall, it's losing badly.

Nvidia eated up GPU market share whopping 0.06% last quarter. That's pretty much, yeah :laughing: For reason, Nvidia gains so little.

I don't give any credit for image quality sacrificers and current cards are way too slow for RT.
Dude you have no knowledge about this 😂 AMD supplies chips to Microsoft and Sony. They make these chips at TSMC 7nm just like all their other chips. Console APUs take up alot of production capacity and this is why AMD can't deliver many GPU's because they are downplayed to supply CPUs and APUs instead.
AMD had no permission to use any other foundry than GlobalFoundries until 2019. Those console chip contracts were made much before that. Likewise XBox one APU was made on TSMC, AMD was not allowed to use TSMC that time. That proves you're wrong once again. Source for those claims: WSA.

Again, there is no still no single proof for claim AMD "cannot deliver many GPU's. No, discrete GPU market share is no proof since it counts even low end GPU's. That's why Intel has biggest GPU market share, around 3 times bigger than Nvidia.

Stop making things up and educate yourself please. This is common knowledge.

Yeah people will care for Ampere cards for the next many years. Because demand is high and supply is low, every GPU sells which is why Nvidia puts out RTX 2060 12GB soon too, made at TSMC 12nm.
Nvidia going for max output to supply and will eat up marketshare. Nvidia is closing in on 86% dGPU marketshare as we speak and Intel dGPUs will targets AMDs prime segment.
How about reading even basics of WSA before making yourself look like *****?

You did say Nvidia had no problems supplying Ampere and next tell they are using obsolete tech to put out obsolete cards? Because they have problems with Ampere, right?

Oh, Intel GPU's are not targetting GTX 2060 level?
AMD needs to wake up or they will be at less than 10% dGPU marketshare in 1-2 years. You will see. Unless AMD cards don't deliver better performance for alot less than Nvidia, 99% will go the Nvidia route. AMD is the small player, always will be. And this is why most PC games are optimized and tweaked for Nvidia cards. Overall performance is simply more solid on a Nvidia card because most developers optimize (and use) Nvidia cards, just like 86% of the PC player base. LOGIC 101.
That's not problem for AMD. See, every time AMD releases better APU's, their discrete cards share will get lower. Basically AMD low end cards have been replaced long time ago with APU's. Faster APU's = less DISCRETE market share. So yes, lower discrete market share is basically what AMD WANTS. Because AMD gets almost all income from APU but video card revenues are split between AMD and card manufacturer.

Just looking at console GPU market share, AMD owns high end market at 100%. Since many AAA games are console ports, figure out rest. But yeah, most console users do not play games :p
 

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HardReset and Yenega, I think your personal argument has gone on long enough. If you wish to continue it, please do so via PM. Thank you.