Nvidia and Zotac urge US to drop Trump-era China tariffs on graphics cards

midian182

Posts: 7,435   +67
Staff member
In context: In addition to the global chip crisis, logistical issues caused by the pandemic, and the rising value of crypto, another factor that has seen the price of graphics cards rise to obscene heights are Trump-era tariffs placed on Chinese-made goods. To address the latter problem, Nvidia and Zotac are urging the Biden administration to make cards exempt from this extra cost.

PCMag reports that the companies made the request to the US Trade Representative’s (USTR) office, which is considering reinstating exemptions on some items covered by the tariffs. Nvidia specifically cited the lack of GPU manufacturing outside of China, meaning the cards are subject to a 25% import tariff.

“The products are not manufactured in the US and in only limited amounts in Taiwan. Efforts to create new capacity in countries that presently do not manufacture such products (such as the US and Vietnam) were unsuccessful and were severely hampered by the fallout from COVID-19,” Nvidia said.

Nvidia continued to emphasize the pandemic’s effect on the GPU industry. "The ability to move the supply chain and/or increase volume in other countries was negatively impacted by COVID-19 in terms of the severe constraints in cargo/air freight capacity, the ability to operate facilities in people-intensive manufacturing, and the ability to find and hire qualified employees trained in such manufacturing," it added.

Zotac told the agency that although it has been working with a contract manufacturer in Taiwan to build its products, it still relies on China to turn raw materials into components, noting that it cannot find alternative sources.

HP is another company that noted China’s importance as the primary source of imports. “The products HP sources are not currently produced elsewhere at sufficient capacity, quality, and compatibility needed,” it told the USTR.

Other tech giants, including Apple, Google, and Intel, have also filed comments urging the USTR to make certain Chinse-manufactured electronic goods exempt from tariffs.

The decision on whether to make an item exempt will depend on whether the product remains available exclusively in China, and “whether or not reinstating the exclusion will impact or result in severe economic harm to the commenter or other US interests, including the impact on small businesses, employment, manufacturing output, and critical supply chains in the United States," the USTR said.

Even if the tariffs are lifted, we don’t know when, or if, it will be reflected in the cards' retail prices. But it’s certainly something we could use right now, especially as the Radeon RX 6000 line is set to become even more expensive.

Permalink to story.

 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,679   +6,464
Only a fool would start a trade war with a country that not only are you in debt to, but happens to be your largest trading partner - accounting for the majority of your consumer goods.

But, it takes the heir to the throne of the king of fools to start a trade war with your largest trading partner, especially when you have a global pandemic and you rely so heavily on imports of not only your PPE but your basic consumer goods such as "cleaning products".

And now you see how dangerous it is to be reliant on a manufacturing base that's 8000 miles away.

The Supply Chain is broken because in the old days you had local factories making product to bring to local stores.

Now you need extremely complicated logistics to get a product from "the other side of the world" to your doorstep.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,679   +6,464
During the RTX 2000 launches, we knew there was a serious problem with crypto currency mining scams/ scalping.

Moves should have been made then to ensure that the RTX 3000 launch was smoother.

I applaud Apple for virtually eliminating scalping and every company should be taking similar steps when applicable.

Apple, during iPhone 7+'s launch, forced everyone to preorder the product, only allowed 2 units per customer, and then forced the customer to either pick up from the store (verifying addresses and identities).

They claimed it was due to fear of terrorism, but either way, they did an excellent job and I'm proud to be a part of that company.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 650   +1,150
I'm still failing to follow the logic for these AIB and even Nvidia, since they were mentioned in this news topic.

Going off Micro Center's retail prices, EVGA is selling their cards at a significantly lower price than other AIBs. Why is that? Does EVGA get their GPUs from some other place that's not China (where Nvidia and Zotac are asking for tariffs to be lifted)?

EVGA sells 3060Ti:
XC model = $479
FTW3 model = $539

Other 3060Ti models:
Gigabyte Gaming Rev2 = $579
ASUS KO = $589
Gigabyte Gaming Pro = $599
ASUS Tuf Gaming V2 = $609
Gigabyte Vision = $619
MSI Ventus 2x = $629
MSI Gaminx X = $649
ASUS ROG = $649
Gigabyte Aorus Elite = $699


Let's look at the RTX 3080 models:

EVGA XC3 = $849
EVGA FTW3 = $899
EVGA FTW3 Ultra = $919
MSI Ventus = $1099
ASUS ROG Strix = $1099
Gigabyte Xtreme = $1129
MSI Gaming Z Trio = $1149
MSI SUPRIM X = $1159
ASUS ROG Strix White = $1159

What is EVGA doing differently than other AIB?
What is Nvidia and AMD doing differently than other AIB when it comes to their reference designs selling for MSRP while AIB are all selling higher than MSRP (even EVGA, but at least they're closer to MSRP than other AIB)?

How can Nvidia create FE models and still sell them at MSRP? Are they taking a loss or are they still making money even though there are tariffs in place and prices for materials have gone up in the past 6-12 months?
How can AMD do the same with selling their reference designs?
Why is EVGA priced so much lower than MSI or Gigabyte or Zotac (Sorry, Micro Center doesn't really carry Zotac cards for a lot of comparisons, just a 3080Ti I saw listed and it was priced $500 higher than EVGA's)?


Where does that leave us, the consumers, to believe?
It looks an awful lot like that most companies are jacking up prices to just make the most money they can and they use things like; "chip shortages", "pandemic", "increased pricing on raw materials" or "tariffs" to justify the extreme price hikes.

EVGA, price wise, is the winner in my book. If you can land one of their cards at a retail price, you're paying close to MSRP. Any other AIB is just screwing you over.
 

psycros

Posts: 3,823   +4,965
"The products are not manufactured in the US and in only limited amounts in Taiwan. Efforts to create new capacity in countries that presently do not manufacture such products (such as the US and Vietnam) were unsuccessful and were severely hampered by the fallout from COVID-19,” Nvidia said."

LOL, unsuccessful? Maybe if they'd actually tried, which they didn't. Such a blatant lie says it all about their motivations.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,536   +3,904
"The products are not manufactured in the US and in only limited amounts in Taiwan. Efforts to create new capacity in countries that presently do not manufacture such products (such as the US and Vietnam) were unsuccessful and were severely hampered by the fallout from COVID-19,” Nvidia said."

LOL, unsuccessful? Maybe if they'd actually tried, which they didn't. Such a blatant lie says it all about their motivations.
What they meant was... "we tried to make it dirt cheap in those countries, but they insisted on us paying the workers a decent wage - so we decided not to bother."
 

seeprime

Posts: 646   +841
Sure it will make a difference, for their own profits as they will keep price the same citing "transportation cost increase" & misc other lies.

End customer benefit out of this will be $0.
US tariffs on Chinese orders over $800 are paid by the original buyer, not the seller. This means that bots can simply buy more for the same money.
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 8,477   +7,312
One of the issues they didn't cover is the tariff policy used in the US. All tariff's are paid by those companies within the US, not the manufacturer and are ultimately passed onto the consumer so they simply don't solve any problems other than another "non-tax tax" on consumers. The only feasible answer is for more of these countries to get out of China and manufacturer in a friendlier country where tariff's will not be applied, but when you consider the cost to move such companies and the practice by China to restrict movement out of the country it's a large capital outlay to "start over" ... which would also ultimately be passed on to the consumer.

Bottom line ... China, USA, and similar countries need to learn to play nice and stop all the political gamesmanship .... it only hurts EVERYBODY.
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 147   +115
I guess videocards manufacturers realized their sales declined a lot.

With the exceptions of who was forced to buy a new video card by need, or are too rich to care about the prices, the other custumers are simply postponing to buy any new video card.

Hopefully prices will start to fell down.
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 147   +115
One of the issues (...) China, USA, and similar countries need to learn to play nice and stop all the political gamesmanship .... it only hurts EVERYBODY.
Dont forget it was USA who started trade war and impose tariffs. And long ago it was USA who decided to bring their manufacturer chain outside their territory cuz of cheaper labor.

China, USA are not "similiar countries" regarding this economic standoff. The responsabilities belong mostly to the USA.
 
Last edited:

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,976   +5,488
US tariffs on Chinese orders over $800 are paid by the original buyer, not the seller. This means that bots can simply buy more for the same money.
Absolutely, although I am not sure it is only on orders over $800. I ordered several transistors from DigiKey last year (well under even $200 for the order), and for each transistor that was manufactured in China, there was a separate line item on the invoice for the tariff. Anyone who thinks that China is paying any of these tariffs (are there still people who believe that??) is seriously misinformed.
Dont forget it was USA who started trade war and impose tariffs. And long ago it was USA who decided to bring their manufacturer chain outside their territory cuz of cheaper labor.

China, USA are not "similiar countries" regarding this economic standoff. The responsabilities belong mostly to the USA.
Being a US citizen, I have to agree.

It was Nixon way back in the late 1960's or early 1970's who opened up trade with China, and it was Trump who thought it was a bigly great idea to start a trade war with them.

It was sheer greed that companies offshored anything to China or elsewhere, and it was the Chinese wanting to "become part of the modern world" that lead them to make the situation such that manufacturing in China was too economically tempting to the average US capitalist free market scrooge to resist.

As I see it, it is tax policies in the US that still make offshoring work to China "economically sound".

Now, however, people are finally starting to realize that this was not such a good idea with China's rattling of sabres and other not-so-friendly actions.

This was something that was easily foreseen, though, IMO. A similar thing happened with Japan before WWII.

Anyway, since US citizens are paying these tariffs, I think Biden should have killed them the first day he was in office.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,976   +5,488
I guess videocards manufacturers realized their sales declined a lot.

With the exceptions of who was forced to buy a new video card by need, or are too rich to care about the prices, the other custumers are simply postponing to buy any new video card.

Hopefully prices will start to fell down.
I've got two new PCs I am waiting to build and a new car I am waiting to buy mostly because of the outrageous situation with prices.

With any luck, all these new fabs being built will _eventually_ produce a glut of chips that will drive prices way down.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,679   +6,464
BLACK FRIDAY, there were plenty of cards.

3080Ti, 3080,3070,3060…

My Microcenter was selling Gigabyte 3080Ti for just under $1600
 

eforce

Posts: 636   +781
Americans decided to vote for high taxes/regulation and the price was loss of manufacturing.
 

Ludak021

Posts: 601   +458
During the RTX 2000 launches, we knew there was a serious problem with crypto currency mining scams/ scalping.

Moves should have been made then to ensure that the RTX 3000 launch was smoother.

I applaud Apple for virtually eliminating scalping and every company should be taking similar steps when applicable.

Apple, during iPhone 7+'s launch, forced everyone to preorder the product, only allowed 2 units per customer, and then forced the customer to either pick up from the store (verifying addresses and identities).

They claimed it was due to fear of terrorism, but either way, they did an excellent job and I'm proud to be a part of that company.

All of that wouldn't have worked the way it did if their products were capable of mining ETH.
edit: Smart phone prices are not affected by the current mining craze, it's not just Apple that did a good job. Apple was being a pain in the a$$ as always. But if you congratulate them, you can congratulate to every smart phone maker, for not being intersting enough to be scalped and resold for 100% more...
 
Anyway, since US citizens are paying these tariffs, I think Biden should have killed them the first day he was in office.

I agree with most of what you said, but think the tariffs should still remain to force these companies to manufacture back in the USA.

It's the corrupt politicians on both the left and right that continue to sell this country away because of their greed. We need people to wake up and realize we are being played by both sides while they and crooked CEOs lobby to continue to profit off our backs.
 
Trump didn’t stand for high taxes... you do realize that it was HIS anti-China policy that led to this, right?
You're not wrong at all, but let's also take into account that Trump also lowered the taxes for business in the US that manufactures can take advantage of, but still don't. The issue currently is that there is no competition in terms of chip manufacturing and China has everything by the reigns in that aspect. There is also an issue with shipping products from overseas to here as China again owns the most containers and raised their prices for that as well. You can't blame them for taking advantage of a country that has crooked politicians and greedy CEOs.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,998   +831
The idea that all manufacturing is dependent upon China is the crux of the problem. It should have never been this way. Evidence of a corrupt system. Keep the tariffs. They need to learn.