"nVidia didn't cheat"

By olefarte · 10 replies
Jun 2, 2003
  1. Well it looks like nVidia and FutureMark have gotten there head's together and decided that maybe everything's alright in benchmark land afterall.
    One has to wonder about the power a big company like nVidia might have over a small one like FutureMark. Maybe this is the reason nVidia has been somewhat quiet on the whole issue. But really, how does the change in attitude come so quick, well lets see.......

    At any rate, now do we go back to version 220 and get those points back on 3D Mark 03 that we so covet? I guess we'll see. Oh, and I guess ATi didn't cheat either, right?
  2. negroplasty

    negroplasty TS Guru Posts: 516   +12

    That's great! You know, it does actually sound believable that they didn't cheat, people jump to conclusions without enough evidence to support their theory.

    Although I get the implication that you are suggesting that NVIDIA bribed ATi, please correct me if I am wrong as I don't like making incorrect assumptions; as if it was, I would be contradicting myself within a post, which would be embarrassing ;) .
  3. olefarte

    olefarte TechSpot Ambassador Topic Starter Posts: 1,345   +13

    timmoore wrote,
    I think you meant "bribed FutureMark"? Maybe I did, but the truth is I don't know, and that was only vague opinion, and not really a good one at that. But however the turn around came about nVidia must have made a detailed explanation of how they do things and convinced FutureMark they were right.
    As far as jumping to conclusions, FutureMark came out and flat said nVidia as well as ATi cheated. Doesn't it seem like someone like FutureMark who has been in business for quite a few years would know cheats? I mean obviously, this kind of stuff must not have been done before, or at least not seen by anybody. If nVidia would have stayed in the program, maybe this would have never happened in the first place. As for ATi, can't defend them.
  4. MrGaribaldi

    MrGaribaldi TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 2,512

    One of the stranger about-turns I've seen in a long time...

    First they publish an audit telling the world what it regards as cheating, and how Nvidia (according to that definition) cheated, and now they suddenly change their definition...

    So it is now allowed to rewrite the code the the IHV's hearts content...

    I'm sad to see this happening, as I think this'll remove much the 3dmark's usefullnes...
  5. PreservedSwine

    PreservedSwine TS Rookie Posts: 325

    Inserting clip planes, creating buffer over-runs, and discardig 3Dm03's shaders and implenting shaders that lower IQ is'nt
    cheating, huh:rolleyes:

    Yes, no doubt they were cheating, they simply bullied FM, ala' Microsft.....
  6. negroplasty

    negroplasty TS Guru Posts: 516   +12

    Yes Olefarte, that is what I meant, if you notice the time of the post (GMT) you would see I have a reason ;); well spotted!

    I believe it is possible that NVIDIA bullied FM into saying such things, after all, NVIDIA is a financial giant and as I recently learned; Futuremark has a crew of less than 30. As Neowin put it, "lawfolk" were most likely involved in this, and that is coming from a NVIDIA fan (note that I am being fair here).

    I am not throwing away the possibility that what both companies are saying is fully true, as everything is true to a certain extent; I am only exploring the most apparent options aside from the reasons provided by both corporations. Which, if I might add, have a few areas that make me think twice before believing them.
  7. forciano

    forciano TS Rookie Posts: 24

    theres something i dont like in all this, perhaps im just tired of watching this thing go on and on.
  8. iss

    iss TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,994

    Well according ot the article at extreme tech speculations that futuremark has changed its position are unfounded.

    However, Tero Sarkkinen, executive vice president of sales and marketing for FutureMark, said the joint statement indicated only that the two sides had begun talking over their differences, instead of feuding publicly. FutureMark has not rescinded the conclusions found within its audit statement, only revised the terminology used within it.
  9. olefarte

    olefarte TechSpot Ambassador Topic Starter Posts: 1,345   +13

    This is one of the more amazing things that's come up lately. Notice the site it's coming from.
  10. iss

    iss TechSpot Chancellor Posts: 1,994

    ROFL that is to funny.

    My guess is that futuremark reworded their statements regarding Nvidia's antic after Nvidia threatend Legal action against them. its cheaper to re word your statemtn than pay attorney's.
  11. MrGaribaldi

    MrGaribaldi TechSpot Ambassador Posts: 2,512

    olefarte> LOL! Well, I'm not really too surprised... If I had payed 4-500$ for a card, and it didn't perform anywhere near what it was hyped to, I'd feel pretty pissed off....

    iss> Yes, that sound plausible...

    As far as my previous post in this thread, I'm going to change my stance a little bit...
    It isn't ok to rewrite shaders, insert clip planes etc., but instead of calling it cheating, it's now called optimizations, which isn't allowed to do with 3dmark...

    Why do I have the feeling that Nvidia forced FM to change the wording, because they were scared?

    Just imagine what the shareholders would do when they found that Nvidia had cheated to inflate the scores, and thus increase their stock price..... A nice legal battle which Nvidia would have a hard time winning...

    So I guess "the big bully" got scared into doing what it did...
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