Nvidia might want to cut 5nm TSMC orders for RTX 4000 series as demand cools

midian182

Posts: 8,023   +88
Staff member
In brief: Nvidia, AMD, and Apple are all reportedly cutting their wafer orders from TSMC as people put less priority on buying the latest electronic goods in light of rising global inflation. In the case of team green, it is also dealing with an excess of RTX 3000-series stock and more ex-mining cards hitting the market, making its upcoming RTX 4000 series a less-enticing prospect.

According to a report by DigiTimes, translated by RetiredEngineer, three of TSMC's major customers—Apple, Nvidia, and AMD—are looking to revise their orders.

The reassessment comes as we leave behind the pandemic era that saw a boom in consumer electronic sales as people worked and played at home. The world is also dealing with an economic downturn caused by rising inflation and the Russia/Ukraine war. Global PC sales have already slowed, and fewer people are rushing to buy the latest smartphones and TVs.

Some highlights of the report include a claim that iPhone 14 mass production has already started, but the initial shipment target of 90 million has been cut by 10%; the A16 SoC in the iPhone 14 will reportedly stick with TSMC's 5nm process node.

AMD, meanwhile, is said to have reduced its 7/6nm wafers orders by around 20,000 in total for the fourth quarter and Q1 2023. It is noted, however, that orders for 5nm wafers for its PC and server hardware have not been affected.

Nvidia has already made pre-payments to secure 5nm capacity from TSMC. The company is expected to return to the Taiwanese giant for its RTX 4000 series after defecting to Samsung for consumer Ampere—it already uses TSMC for its 5nm Hopper data-center architecture. But with a glut of current-gen cards that it's trying to get rid of, miners selling their GPUs as crypto crashes, and rising inflation, Nvidia is facing lower demand and wants to cut 5nm orders.

It seems TSMC is unsympathetic to Nvidia's plight and is offering no concessions. The best it can do is delay shipments by one quarter or to Q1 2023, which would mean Nvidia finding replacement customers for TSMC's vacated production capacity.

h/t: VideoCardz

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EdmondRC

Posts: 268   +349
Supposedly RTX 40 is going to release in just a couple of months, it would be quite silly to purchase an RTX 30 series card right now unless you found a great deal. AMD cards are available for under MSRP, there is a 6600 on Newegg today for $275 with a promo code. If I really needed a GPU today, I would purchase that one.
 

zamroni111

Posts: 359   +211
If AMD can RTX this time they may need to cut orders further.
Amd will happily take over Nvidia and apple 5nm allocation to produce zen4 and package it as epyc 7004.
Server processor is the most profitable mass market chip anyway.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,150   +2,316
Of course the main title needs to only include nvidia then clicking on it reveals apple and amd.

Have to love this propaganda campaign.

Anyways, as mentioned above, AMD can use that capacity for Epyc, plus Threadrippers and Instinct parts.
 

umbala

Posts: 647   +1,140
Good. All these companies are getting exactly what they deserve. Back when all these crypto-turds were gobbling up their video cards at inflated prices they were happier than pigs in sh*t. Now that crapto crapped out and the market is flooded with beat up old cards suddenly they can't sell their brand new overpriced cards. What a surprise!
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,526   +2,494
Supposedly RTX 40 is going to release in just a couple of months, it would be quite silly to purchase an RTX 30 series card right now unless you found a great deal. AMD cards are available for under MSRP, there is a 6600 on Newegg today for $275 with a promo code. If I really needed a GPU today, I would purchase that one.
Keyword: Supposedly
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,150   +2,316
Good. All these companies are getting exactly what they deserve. Back when all these crypto-turds were gobbling up their video cards at inflated prices they were happier than pigs in sh*t. Now that crapto crapped out and the market is flooded with beat up old cards suddenly they can't sell their brand new overpriced cards. What a surprise!
Out of the companies mentioned, only nvidia sold directly to miners and at inflated prices and even stopped selling gpus on their site so they didnt had to follow msrp prices.

AMD kept selling their reference gpus at msrp on their site.

Apple has nothing that can be used to mine, afaik.
 

KIAg1978

Posts: 25   +29
If you are a fish you will take the bait, nvdia is premarketing the new lineup with the line "there won't be enough for all" in that way they will increase demand once again by fear!! If anything they are already trying to push customers in state of Get ready To buy, in that way they can have again overblown prices !! Fear of not having will create fast sales as all the noobs of life will run again to take what is supposed to Not be there when you want it in a normal price! So my hope is that people will start buying what they want and not what is sold to them !! I am a sales person and I don't consider my self a FISH ,for once I hope people will think and don't just rush to take the bait!!
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,524   +5,383
If you are a fish you will take the bait, nvdia is premarketing the new lineup with the line "there won't be enough for all" in that way they will increase demand once again by fear!! If anything they are already trying to push customers in state of Get ready To buy, in that way they can have again overblown prices !! Fear of not having will create fast sales as all the noobs of life will run again to take what is supposed to Not be there when you want it in a normal price! So my hope is that people will start buying what they want and not what is sold to them !! I am a sales person and I don't consider my self a FISH ,for once I hope people will think and don't just rush to take the bait!!
Frankly, with all the controversy constantly around nVidia I'm afraid to buy their products. And I don't think I'll drop a penny on 40 series cards. Maybe pick up a used 3080 or just buy a new AMD 7000 series card.
 

KIAg1978

Posts: 25   +29
Frankly, with all the controversy constantly around nVidia I'm afraid to buy their products. And I don't think I'll drop a penny on 40 series cards. Maybe pick up a used 3080 or just buy a new AMD 7000 series card.
From a gamers view if you don't have a gsync monitor RTX did not bring nothing until now ,so you will save a few euros,in the other hand AMD hoesnt done something to elevate in gamers mind in a different way rather than consumption maybe ,FSR is not ready to tackle RTX hardware wise and all that only if you are playing games full graphics , if you are not then there is no point....so what's left ?monitors ,if you have a 240hz monitor you might need a really powerful Gpu ,the second reason is future proof your PC maybe thats the only reason to buy a high and Gpu and on my opinion the correct one. So yes AMD could be a good choice to save some money nothing more nothing less.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,524   +5,383
From a gamers view if you don't have a gsync monitor RTX did not bring nothing until now ,so you will save a few euros,in the other hand AMD hoesnt done something to elevate in gamers mind in a different way rather than consumption maybe ,FSR is not ready to tackle RTX hardware wise and all that only if you are playing games full graphics , if you are not then there is no point....so what's left ?monitors ,if you have a 240hz monitor you might need a really powerful Gpu ,the second reason is future proof your PC maybe thats the only reason to buy a high and Gpu and on my opinion the correct one. So yes AMD could be a good choice to save some money nothing more nothing less.
Not judging because it's Friday and I'm totally drinking, but are you drunk? Basically everything I play is non RTX and still see it as a gimmick. I have a unique set of circumstances to have my setup, but I use a 65" 4ktv as a monitor and plan on upgrading to a 75" 8k soon
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,123   +822
Surely other phone manufacturers and car manufacturers will be needing wafers
lots of companies stuff up orders during covid

Anyway hopefully get bundled GPUs at MSRP - - older ones should be nicely priced

I suppose the other problem is 4090 etc will need a lot of new hardware to make the most of it - Fast memory 1000/12000 PSU , 4K screen etc - so best in complete new build ( though that can be staged )
I do want to build another PC but will wait the Zen4/5 stabilises motherboards are top notch
So that's a another year away or Intel if they up their game and support
Good news as more Fabs come online - PS5 Pro hopefully will get some better options as wafers get cheaper.
Nvidia could of put more FE in the retail channel ( or commissioned ones )and put constraints on sellers to make sure they go to gamers
 

KIAg1978

Posts: 25   +29
Not judging because it's Friday and I'm totally drinking, but are you drunk? Basically everything I play is non RTX and still see it as a gimmick. I have a unique set of circumstances to have my setup, but I use a 65" 4ktv as a monitor and plan on upgrading to a 75" 8k soon
Well ,I am talking NOT about you !! If you have that kind of a monitor you NEED 10090 rtx Fsr and me with a brush trying to make it look better !! You have something else ,money to spend ,good for you but I am talking about the usual people with a real monitor and not a TV, so you are right, but only for your self ,by my estimate you are probably just a 10 % maybe a 15% of the market , because I haven't done any research even a single digit PROBABLY, so you are not in my group !!
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,829   +4,275
So many people conflate RTX with ray tracing on a tech forum it's crazy. I guess Nvidia did a great marketing job with it.
 

OortCloud

Posts: 767   +743
My sympathy for nVidia after the **** they have pulled and the ruthless profiteering during this covid/crypto shortages is limited.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,524   +5,383
Well ,I am talking NOT about you !! If you have that kind of a monitor you NEED 10090 rtx Fsr and me with a brush trying to make it look better !! You have something else ,money to spend ,good for you but I am talking about the usual people with a real monitor and not a TV, so you are right, but only for your self ,by my estimate you are probably just a 10 % maybe a 15% of the market , because I haven't done any research even a single digit PROBABLY, so you are not in my group !!
I'm probably in the fraction of a fraction of a percent part of the market. Basically no one needs a 3090
 

McMurdeR

Posts: 535   +672
Frankly, with all the controversy constantly around nVidia I'm afraid to buy their products. And I don't think I'll drop a penny on 40 series cards. Maybe pick up a used 3080 or just buy a new AMD 7000 series card.

It depends on price and availability, but even as a long term PC gaming hardware enthusiast, I haven't bought any CPU or GPU hardware since 2016. I didn't really want anything new until 2019, and since then, with prices and availability where they are, it hasn't been worth looking..
 

8600M GT

Posts: 44   +27
Some time last year I wrote that with the prices being so high, AMD and nVIDIA were driving people away from the hobby, and they risked losing part of their audience over the long term. Of course crypto bears much of the blame for that, but I think that's part of their current problem - people who found other hobbies when they couldn't buy GPUs.

But there are so many other things too. Lots of people bought gaming computers in 2020 and 2021, a lot more than the previous couple years, so it makes sense that demand would be lower now. No need to upgrade yet.

And the prices are still high compared to 2017 or so. A midrange card now costs a lot more than a midrange card then, including after you adjust for inflation. The RX 480 debuted at $200 in 2016. Now midrange cards are close to double that. Current-gen MSRPs are a lot higher than previous-gen MSRPs, and if you ask me the asking prices are still too high.

nVIDIA can try to cut supply to keep prices high, but they risk reducing the market long-term by doing so.
 

zamroni111

Posts: 359   +211
My sympathy for nVidia after the **** they have pulled and the ruthless profiteering during this covid/crypto shortages is limited.
This guy in India could buy 3060ti at msrp from authorized distributor 10 months ago
I think it was non authorized resellers that inflate the price.
Authorized distributors and resellers are usually bound by manufacturers not to sell product above msrp.

The shortage I guess is caused by big size of ampere chips that Samsung 8nm can't yield in good amount
 
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yRaz

Posts: 4,524   +5,383
Some time last year I wrote that with the prices being so high, AMD and nVIDIA were driving people away from the hobby, and they risked losing part of their audience over the long term. Of course crypto bears much of the blame for that, but I think that's part of their current problem - people who found other hobbies when they couldn't buy GPUs.

But there are so many other things too. Lots of people bought gaming computers in 2020 and 2021, a lot more than the previous couple years, so it makes sense that demand would be lower now. No need to upgrade yet.

And the prices are still high compared to 2017 or so. A midrange card now costs a lot more than a midrange card then, including after you adjust for inflation. The RX 480 debuted at $200 in 2016. Now midrange cards are close to double that. Current-gen MSRPs are a lot higher than previous-gen MSRPs, and if you ask me the asking prices are still too high.

nVIDIA can try to cut supply to keep prices high, but they risk reducing the market long-term by doing so.
Why did you choose that name? 8000 series has been irrelevant for, well, as long as that name has been irrelevant. I had 2 8800GTs in SLI.

8600M, though.....go back to china