Only two states are opposed to the idea of a cashless society

tylerb1489

Posts: 17   +13
To go cashless is to become slave to the state and to any kind of chaos in infrastructure.

Internet goes out - all shops close for the duration. It's total crap.

You’ll be able to transfer digital dollars via Bluetooth or NFC when connectivity isn’t available. Once you connect online again it will tender the transaction and sync just like how apply pay works when you use it with out wifi or data.
 

waclark

Posts: 795   +493
... you do realise, that if internet goes out no shop can process any transaction (no matter if cashless or cash ones)? Only very small shops could get your cash payment, but if internet goes out, then electricity goes out as well, so they wont be able to accept cash either (they need to calculate and print receipt).
That's false. If the internet goes out I can collect cash all day long. Electricity and the Internet are not that intertwined. I've lost Internet at home on multiple occasions and the lights stayed on. And even if the power goes out, I can calculate cost with a handheld calculator (or pencil and paper) that doesn't need electricity or even Internet and I can hand write you a receipt. People have been taking cash far longer than the Internet has been around, so sorry, but your assertion has no merit. In fact, this is one of the reasons why cashless may not be the best option, in a case of a power outage, if we are all cashless, you cannot buy or sell anything. But with cash you can continue to operate.
 

waclark

Posts: 795   +493
You’ll be able to transfer digital dollars via Bluetooth or NFC when connectivity isn’t available. Once you connect online again it will tender the transaction and sync just like how apply pay works when you use it with out wifi or data.
This is true, but I can tell you from first hand experience that the back-end sync process isn't perfect. We have a POS system in our small business that is supposed to do just that, but what we've experienced is that it often breaks or requires a lot of manual intervention to get everything processed. I can't imagine what that would look like for a Costco or Walmart.
 

Skjorn

Posts: 740   +609
... you do realise, that if internet goes out no shop can process any transaction (no matter if cashless or cash ones)? Only very small shops could get your cash payment, but if internet goes out, then electricity goes out as well, so they wont be able to accept cash either (they need to calculate and print receipt).
Why does the electricity have to go out when the internet goes out? Is your life powered by PoE? How could we have ever have made in store transactions without the the internet!?!
 

Skjorn

Posts: 740   +609
This is true, but I can tell you from first hand experience that the back-end sync process isn't perfect. We have a POS system in our small business that is supposed to do just that, but what we've experienced is that it often breaks or requires a lot of manual intervention to get everything processed. I can't imagine what that would look like for a Costco or Walmart.
Costco and Walmart aren't your small business with limited resources.
 

EdmondRC

Posts: 448   +655
If I have a $20 bill in my hand, I can buy food or goods with it. I dont need a bank account, a credit card, or even electricity to do it.

The threat of being able to do that keeps the dollar in check from running away or being locked down. We've already seen banks willing to shut down peoples accounts for wrong think, and the only way those people got by was cash donations (the canadian truckers are a great example).

In an all digital world a single use of the ban button can and will destroy lives. One crisis, one bad actor is all it takes to screw everybody.
This is exactly right. There are already financial institutions denying credit for things like gun purchases or denying loans to businesses that don't meet their EGS standards. Even being a pro-life organization can get you denied because the modern thing to do is cancel someone who doesn't share your viewpoint.
A completely cashless society means that if you are deemed "dangerous" because you posted something wrong on social media being "cancelled" could easily be extended to your digital currency account, which will be frozen.
The only options you'll be left with are seeking legal help, but who is going to help you when you can't pay them if you lose? Bartering things you own maybe, but that will only last you so long. And begging.
 

AlaskaGuy

Posts: 749   +620
This is exactly right. There are already financial institutions denying credit for things like gun purchases or denying loans to businesses that don't meet their EGS standards. Even being a pro-life organization can get you denied because the modern thing to do is cancel someone who doesn't share your viewpoint.
A completely cashless society means that if you are deemed "dangerous" because you posted something wrong on social media being "cancelled" could easily be extended to your digital currency account, which will be frozen.
The only options you'll be left with are seeking legal help, but who is going to help you when you can't pay them if you lose? Bartering things you own maybe, but that will only last you so long. And begging.
I'm reminded of last year when the Communist regime of Canada was freezing bank accounts of Canadians who disagree with their policies.
 

AndreV

Posts: 20   +7
"Only two states are opposed to the idea of a cashless society"
Translation: "We - the government, have an agenda and want to implement all cashless society for absolute control of the population, and for this purpose we use propaganda and we try to make look somewhat real by saying that most, but not quite all, want cashless society, when in reality most dont want an exclusive cashless society. Anyway, we lie, because there's no one who can expose us."

There, this is the real title.
 

PEnnn

Posts: 1,010   +1,361
Does one REALLY need to remind the bright minds here that cashless DOES NOT mean there will be no money of any kind whatsoever!! It's NOT about abolishing money!!

I guess reading something AND understanding it does require a huge amount of brain power after all!!
 

dangh

Posts: 854   +1,447
That's false. If the internet goes out I can collect cash all day long. Electricity and the Internet are not that intertwined. I've lost Internet at home on multiple occasions and the lights stayed on. And even if the power goes out, I can calculate cost with a handheld calculator (or pencil and paper) that doesn't need electricity or even Internet and I can hand write you a receipt. People have been taking cash far longer than the Internet has been around, so sorry, but your assertion has no merit. In fact, this is one of the reasons why cashless may not be the best option, in a case of a power outage, if we are all cashless, you cannot buy or sell anything. But with cash you can continue to operate.
If internet goes out, then cash registers in large outlets goes out. They are connected live to many systems to ensure all transactions are processed and inventory changes trigger supply chain operations so next night delivery will bring what's needed.
Now, where was the last time you went shopping and you couldn't pay with card because internet is out? Sure, electricity and internet aren't same and are not directly connected, but in real life I seen much more blackouts in shop than card payments issues because of faulty internet. If something happens that internet is out usually is related to wider issue.

And no, if power goes out you can't calculate and write receipt - each commodity have it's own tax code and correct receipt number which but can use to handle taxes, and seller using to register transaction. It is required by law and selling anything without that is asking for a big trouble.
And how would you handle a return of an item bought with hand - written receipt? I'd like to see that;)
Only very small shops with less strict regulations could handle a small number of off tegister transactions.

People were using cash for ages, but the usage has been always evolving. You still do cash operations even if it is in your bank account. Bank notes are already just a proof of value, not a value itself, so it is same as a digital token of confirmation. Just printed.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 1,094   +2,020
If internet goes out, then cash registers in large outlets goes out. They are connected live to many systems to ensure all transactions are processed and inventory changes trigger supply chain operations so next night delivery will bring what's needed.
Now, where was the last time you went shopping and you couldn't pay with card because internet is out? Sure, electricity and internet aren't same and are not directly connected, but in real life I seen much more blackouts in shop than card payments issues because of faulty internet. If something happens that internet is out usually is related to wider issue.

And no, if power goes out you can't calculate and write receipt - each commodity have it's own tax code and correct receipt number which but can use to handle taxes, and seller using to register transaction. It is required by law and selling anything without that is asking for a big trouble.
And how would you handle a return of an item bought with hand - written receipt? I'd like to see that;)
Only very small shops with less strict regulations could handle a small number of off tegister transactions.

People were using cash for ages, but the usage has been always evolving. You still do cash operations even if it is in your bank account. Bank notes are already just a proof of value, not a value itself, so it is same as a digital token of confirmation. Just printed.

Last place I worked the POS software was designed to be functional even without network connectivity; intranet. If the internet went out, the system was even designed to function on taking credit cards. Loss of internet did not mean a loss of use on the registers. Loss of intranet would limit the system to only being able to handle cash sales.

Here how the system functioned:
All registers reported data to the sales computer (office computer/server).
Server housed credit card processing software (internet was not required to run credit/debit cards, but it was required to process out the end of day batch) and databases.

You take an order on a register, the data is processed/housed on the databases on the server. End of day (system reboot), the office computer would back up all main databases on the registers should some intranet issue arise, the registers could function as their own server. Once the intranet service was restored all sales data on the registers would be written to the server computer.

Here's how credit/debit cards work:
Normal - order is placed, payment option is selected, if paying by card the credit card is swiped. At this point the card information is sent to the credit card/bank and asks if the card is active and if funds are available. If funds are available a transaction authorization code is created and tied to the transaction. This information is stored in the batch file until it's processed at the end of the business day. Once the batch file is processed out, this is when exchange of funds from the credit card company/bank goes to the store's account

If internet is down (not all businesses use this feature): if the option for a credit/debit sale is selected, the credit card software on the office computer tries to reach out to the credit card/bank and gets a failure. This doesn't stop the sale though, what happens is:
* credit card info is encrypted
* a temporary approval code is assigned to the sale
* encrypted info is saved in a batch file
* the transaction is considered complete and sale is good to go. customer leaves with their stuff.
* once the internet is restored the encrypted batch file is processed. This now functions as if the cards were present and pushes the information out the credit card/banks and asks for a "real" approval code. 99.9% of the time, the credit card/bank says the card is good and provides an approval code and funds are transferred from the cardholder to the store's account. That small % of the time the cards are declined, that sale is lost (customer got goods without having to pay).

There's a bit more to it all, but that's kind of the gist of it all. If you followed all that, great. If not...well....

Long story short: registers will work without the internet and credit cards will, too (as long as the store you're at is setup to take cards when the internet is down)




Calculating taxes is pretty simple:
I'm not sure about taxes for other parts of the world, but in the States as long as you know the sales tax amount you can easily calculate taxes for a sale. You may need to know other rules, such as if there are any goods that are not taxable (like in MN, there are no sales taxes on clothing. But if you go to WI, they have sales tax on clothing).

In my county/city, sales taxes are 7.35%
If I stop at the local store and I buy things that are all taxed and I have $100 worth of purchases, I have to add tax to that sale. My total, with tax, is $107.35
 

3volv3d

Posts: 450   +238
Does one REALLY need to remind the bright minds here that cashless DOES NOT mean there will be no money of any kind whatsoever!! It's NOT about abolishing money!!

I guess reading something AND understanding it does require a huge amount of brain power after all!!

They hated crypto, they destroyed it, and stopped the decentralization of banks.
Oh crypto was never going to work, well, no, they would never let it. And would it be for the better if it did who knows.
They didn't like covid crashing the economies, they came out of lockdown to save the economy.
Putin holds Ukraine to ransom, and gets a slap for it.
The energy companies decide to hold the UK to ransom, and get paid off, with illegally printed money, that will be dished out to help those who need, creating a bigger debt.
No one has money, except the rich, no one decides how to use that money, except the rich. IF they don't want to put it back in the system and help the world go around, and instead horde it to be rich and have a the globe crash, they can.
If they are rich and influential like Musk, they can dangerously make the markets rise and fall like a wave machine, with no real goal, other than to show they can.
And then their is the Sunak family, in control of the UK's future, where yes, there will be no Money for you, not to spend on what you want.
Imagine the Britcoin, the digital currency, centralized, under their control, and I mean all under their control.
On the one hand I can see the silver lining of them watching your every purchase, were you silly enough to buy 20 cigs a day, well, we now refuse you on the NHS. Not wasting a doctors precious time on you.
Or maybe you get limited to a bottle of coke a week, your kids health is their concern after all, and it could control obesity.
But F me, I can't buy some fkn weed now. My dealer ain't gonna except my digi monies. It's tracked, he couldn't if he wanted to. Now I am reduced to the exchange of hand jobs for my substances.
Honestly, F society. In America and the UK now, it's all drink, drink driving, and violence, bar brawls and the aftermath.
But hippie types wanting to chill out and watch some Dave Chapelle while eating brownies, we are the plague to society.
Don't get me wrong its clear we have always been under control, but it gets worse and worse with every itteration of this virus infested matrix, and the next one is going to be worse.
Nov 5th celebrates how Guy Fawkes failed to destroy the Houses of Parliment, but we should be mourning the loss of someone who tried to free us.

 

Gastec

Posts: 299   +156
... you do realise, that if internet goes out no shop can process any transaction (no matter if cashless or cash ones)? Only very small shops could get your cash payment, but if internet goes out, then electricity goes out as well, so they wont be able to accept cash either (they need to calculate and print receipt).
The Internet turns off, you go out and buy a loaf of bread from your local shop for a few coins, not the crypto kind, the metallic kind.
 

Gastec

Posts: 299   +156
So not-cashless means you keep ALL your money under your mattress?? You don't have a single bank account??

How is cashless any different from having your money in the bank??
Not under my mattress, under the mattresses of the Templars.
 

MyIOnU

Posts: 135   +295
I'm for cashless, but without option for government to see my account balance and stuff.
Real money is something I do not use for years, I have better control using my card or phone, and that is as well much more safe.

Good luck with that.
 

Gastec

Posts: 299   +156
I think people do not understand what is really coming and what the WEF is talking about out in the open (just imagine behind closed doors). The future government issued crypto-dollars will be completely controllable. The next "crisis" and they will be able to lock down where you spend your money, what you spend it on, who you donate it to, etc. The cashless society that is being planned is not the same as carrying a debit/credit card as most of these people assume. The cashless society of the future is a completely centralized and micro-controllable currency that will literally be able to keep your from buying gasoline or steak if you've used up all your "carbon credits" for the month. It is the future of communism and totalitarianism, the ultimate form of social control. And of course it will be implemented because of some crisis, some major fraud like FTX or something along those lines where people will again willingly give the government control over their lives in exchange for a perception of "safety". It doesn't really do any good to talk about it though, too many people already beleive in this future dystopia. The past speaks loudly, centralized governments always trend toward totalitarianism and eventually bring systemic oppression on all but the elites. We are getting very close to that, but this time on a worldwide scale.
It's Neo-Marxism. Perhaps it will be called Crypto-Marxism in the future.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 1,111   +941
Suspect.

Have them take the Twitter poll, after real people have their subscriptions.. and just not automated bots replying to a survey nobody took, or heard of...

 

m3tavision

Posts: 1,111   +941
Does one REALLY need to remind the bright minds here that cashless DOES NOT mean there will be no money of any kind whatsoever!! It's NOT about abolishing money!!

I guess reading something AND understanding it does require a huge amount of brain power after all!!


That is exactly what it means.... there will be no money. It's self explanatory.


Any exchange, would now have to go through some central authority and log said exchange. I could not give some kid $15 bucks for shoveling my snow... because money would not exist. I would have to credit him, and HAVE THAT be logged and tracked.

Currency is not tracked. It's agnostic and legal tender for all debt Public or Private.




 

moral hazard

Posts: 38   +15
I've had the same $5 bill sitting in my wallet for the last 3 years. Until I wash my car, it's going to to languish there.
 

waclark

Posts: 795   +493
If internet goes out, then cash registers in large outlets goes out. They are connected live to many systems to ensure all transactions are processed and inventory changes trigger supply chain operations so next night delivery will bring what's needed.
Now, where was the last time you went shopping and you couldn't pay with card because internet is out? Sure, electricity and internet aren't same and are not directly connected, but in real life I seen much more blackouts in shop than card payments issues because of faulty internet. If something happens that internet is out usually is related to wider issue.

And no, if power goes out you can't calculate and write receipt - each commodity have it's own tax code and correct receipt number which but can use to handle taxes, and seller using to register transaction. It is required by law and selling anything without that is asking for a big trouble.
And how would you handle a return of an item bought with hand - written receipt? I'd like to see that;)
Only very small shops with less strict regulations could handle a small number of off tegister transactions.

People were using cash for ages, but the usage has been always evolving. You still do cash operations even if it is in your bank account. Bank notes are already just a proof of value, not a value itself, so it is same as a digital token of confirmation. Just printed.
Yes, large outlets and even small businesses have their POS tied to the internet. That doesn't mean you can't do business. Ask me how I know? I own a small business and have had internet outages which didn't prevent me from taking credit cards and/or cash. For larger retail outlets it can be a problem, but it's not insurmountable. If you have power you can swipe CC or take cash and everything will get processed on the back end, assuming you have a good POS.

If you lose power, you can still take cash, which was the whole point. In all likelihood if a large retail business loses power, they are closing, not because they can't take money, but because it's dark inside the store and that presents a host of other issues. For restaurants it generally means you can't cook food. But, just losing power is not in and of itself preventing you from doing business. Sure, it might impact some of the inventory control systems, but again, that can be dealt with.

If we go cashless, and you lose power, it's a huge problem which is why I'm against it. The percieved benefits of going cashless do not out weigh the potential issues, IMHO.