PCI Express

[andygibbs]

Hi,

Now that PCI-express graphics cards are becoming more common, I was wandering, does PCI-express use similar technology to standard PCI and if it does, will we soon be seeing other PCI-express cards eg. wireless cards, firewires etc.

Also, could somebody please explain to me, how dual pci-express graphics cards work, the benefits that having dual card brings etc.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Nodsu]

PCI-E is completely different from PCI technology wise.
From a consumer point of view it's just a slot you plug stuff in to and hence no different from PCI.
You can connect anything you want to PCI-E and it is up to the manufacturers whether they make a product for PCI-E or not.
I suppose with Intel doing its pushing we will see PCI slots becoming extinct in 10 years or so and we will be having only PCI-E products. Or maybe some other new bus thing.

If you mean dual graphics cards in a "SLI" configuration then it means that basically you have two GPUs working on the same image. So in a perfct world you would get double the rendering speed.
Not quite double in real life though

 

[vnf4ultra]

pci-e

PCI-E is completely different from PCI technology wise.
From a consumer point of view it's just a slot you plug stuff in to and hence no different from PCI.
You can connect anything you want to PCI-E and it is up to the manufacturers whether they make a product for PCI-E or not.
I suppose with Intel doing its pushing we will see PCI slots becoming extinct in 10 years or so and we will be having only PCI-E products. Or maybe some other new bus thing.

If you mean dual graphics cards in a "SLI" configuration then it means that basically you have two GPUs working on the same image. So in a perfct world you would get double the rendering speed.
Not quite double in real life though

Yeah, what he said.

 

[nein]

Hi,

Now that PCI-express graphics cards are becoming more common, I was wandering, does PCI-express use similar technology to standard PCI and if it does, will we soon be seeing other PCI-express cards eg. wireless cards, firewires etc.

No it used very different technology than standard PCI, PCI used classical Intel Symmetric Processing techniques (Processing in sequential, one at a time symmetrical time-slices specified by LATENCY values - also known as time-share processing, time-division processing).

PCI-e used Distributed Processing technology not Symmetric Processing, the same technology AMD had been using for quite some time. The first AMD primitive in-use consumer version is EV6 in all AMD's K7 Processors. It is what allowed AMD K7s to out-perform equivalent Intel despite always with a lower bus speed disavantage than Intel hardware. It is also what made AMD's Dually more efficient and more Scalable than Intel's Dually.

Also, could somebody please explain to me, how dual pci-express graphics cards work, the benefits that having dual card brings etc.

PCI-e allowed "simultanenous data streams from multiple simultanenous data sources to multiple simultanenous destinations" enabling true parallel-processing and true multi-tasking. (CROSSBAR)

Instead of PCI classical - sequential one data stream at a time to one destination which actually allowed doing only one thing at a time.

It took Intel 4 years for PCI-e because Intel is forced to shift from Symmetric Processing toward AMD Distributed Processing technology since the K7 series.

Intel's northbridges and southbridges are no longer hubs, they are switches. Hubs are Time-share/Symmetric Processing devices, switches are Distributed Processing devices.

 

[shadow_29]

first of all pci express is supposed to be the successor to agp interface.pci devices like modems,lan card,audio cards dont require that fast a bus.pci express has a 4 gb/s transfer rate since it has the ability to simultaneously transfer data upsteram and downstream it would have a 8 gb/s bus speed.intel is already pushing for the new pci express slots.if you check out a new mobo based on intel 915/925 x chipset(lga 775)you'll see that besides the pci express X16 interface for the video card there is already 2 pci expess slots namely pxi express X1 along with good old pci slots.why???well because besides the good old pci,new devices really dont need that fast an interface so not a lot of devices are available with this interface.but in this fast pc market its impossible to be future proof.but rest assured that even if intel would want to push out theold pci and bring in the new pci express,its going to take a long time,pci express which was a necessity in the graphic market to increase the agp interface took about a 9 months to a year to get it mainstream approval(quantity),it would take even a longer time for intel to try and through good old pci out.

 

[nein]

first of all pci express is supposed to be the successor to agp interface.pci devices like modems,lan card,audio cards dont require that fast a bus.pci express has a 4 gb/s transfer rate since it has the ability to simultaneously transfer data upsteram and downstream it would have a 8 gb/s bus speed.intel is already pushing for the new pci express slots.if you check out a new mobo based on intel 915/925 x chipset(lga 775)you'll see that besides the pci express X16 interface for the video card there is already 2 pci expess slots namely pxi express X1 along with good old pci slots.why???well because besides the good old pci,new devices really dont need that fast an interface so not a lot of devices are available with this interface.but in this fast pc market its impossible to be future proof.but rest assured that even if intel would want to push out theold pci and bring in the new pci express,its going to take a long time,pci express which was a necessity in the graphic market to increase the agp interface took about a 9 months to a year to get it mainstream approval(quantity),it would take even a longer time for intel to try and through good old pci out.

Can you try for something better than the "I wanna be different" version above?

 

[shadow_29]

hey nien,i only tried to explain it as simply as i can in laymans terms.excuse me if i offended you but ask any one about which one is easier to understand and a bit more practical.

your version-

"PCI-e allowed "simultanenous data streams from multiple simultanenous data sources to multiple simultanenous destinations" enabling true parallel-processing and true multi-tasking. (CROSSBAR)

Instead of PCI classical - sequential one data stream at a time to one destination which actually allowed doing only one thing at a time.

It took Intel 4 years for PCI-e because Intel is forced to shift from Symmetric Processing toward AMD Distributed Processing technology since the K7 series.

Intel's northbridges and southbridges are no longer hubs, they are switches. Hubs are Time-share/Symmetric Processing devices, switches are Distributed Processing devices."

and then read my version and ask which one makes more sense to a layman.i only tried to explain it more simply without any technical terms.sorry again.

 

[nein]

hey nien,i only tried to explain it as simply as i can in laymans terms.excuse me if i offended you but ask any one about which one is easier to understand and a bit more practical.

I'm not offended.

your version-

"PCI-e allowed "simultanenous data streams from multiple simultanenous data sources to multiple simultanenous destinations" enabling true parallel-processing and true multi-tasking. (CROSSBAR)

Instead of PCI classical - sequential one data stream at a time to one destination which actually allowed doing only one thing at a time.

It took Intel 4 years for PCI-e because Intel is forced to shift from Symmetric Processing toward AMD Distributed Processing technology since the K7 series.


Intel's northbridges and southbridges are no longer hubs, they are switches. Hubs are Time-share/Symmetric Processing devices, switches are Distributed Processing devices."

and then read my version and ask which one makes more sense to a layman.i only tried to explain it more simply without any technical terms.sorry again.

I supposed yours is far superior to mine, I had never actually studied English and simply used "Me Tarzan, you Jane English"... hence any of mine are always broken.

"Me Tarzan, you Jane English" is more difficult to read and less practical than "I wanna be different English"?

 

[shadow_29]

hey like i said i never looked at your explanation in a condescending manner,if anything i consider yours to be more descriptive.the real reason was that i didnt pay much attention to your post,for all i know you could be an engineer/professional who does this for a living.well you clearly sound either pissed or just bored.whichever it might be professor p,I didnt even READ your post,so lay off.we both said pretty much the same thing so whats your problem?.

 

[nein]

hey like i said i never looked at your explanation in a condescending manner,if anything i consider yours to be more descriptive.the real reason was that i didnt pay much attention to your post,for all i know you could be an engineer/professional who does this for a living.

I do "does this" for a living.

well you clearly sound either pissed or just bored.whichever it might be professor p,I didnt even READ your post,so lay off.we both said pretty much the same thing so whats your problem?.

I did say I used - Me Tarzan, you Jane English. A person naturally with definite English difficulty not being born an English speaking native.

 

[chief barker]

laugh!!!!

Rofl.....at Both Of You.

 

[nein]

Ha Ha Ha...

 

[shadow_29]

So what do you want? For everyone to acknowledge your mental superiority or that we are all mere troglodytes compared to you.I know i might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but .......... look around there arent that many here.also why do you keep quoting me -what are you a school teacher?

hence any of mine are always broken

words taken out of context do seem foolish and especially to someone such as yourself,who probably seems bored and has not much else to do but go after everyother person who crosses your path or aybe god forbid explains anything that you already have.If you've forgotten than the purpose of this forum was to help others and this post to explain pci express.so forgive me if i wasnt as technically gifted or descriptive as you.

 

[nein]

I'm not asking for you to be technically gifted or descriptively talented, etc... I had simply asked...

_________________________________________________________
Originally Posted by shadow_29
first of all pci express is supposed to be the successor to agp interface.pci devices like modems,lan card,audio cards dont require that fast a bus.pci express has a 4 gb/s transfer rate since it has the ability to simultaneously transfer data upsteram and downstream it would have a 8 gb/s bus speed.intel is already pushing for the new pci express slots.if you check out a new mobo based on intel 915/925 x chipset(lga 775)you'll see that besides the pci express X16 interface for the video card there is already 2 pci expess slots namely pxi express X1 along with good old pci slots.why???well because besides the good old pci,new devices really dont need that fast an interface so not a lot of devices are available with this interface.but in this fast pc market its impossible to be future proof.but rest assured that even if intel would want to push out theold pci and bring in the new pci express,its going to take a long time,pci express which was a necessity in the graphic market to increase the agp interface took about a 9 months to a year to get it mainstream approval(quantity),it would take even a longer time for intel to try and through good old pci out.
_________________________________________________________

Can you try for something better than the "I wanna be different" version above?

 

[shadow_29]

No it used very different technology than standard PCI, PCI used classical Intel Symmetric Processing techniques (Processing in sequential, one at a time symmetrical time-slices specified by LATENCY values - also known as time-share processing, time-division processing).

PCI-e used Distributed Processing technology not Symmetric Processing, the same technology AMD had been using for quite some time. The first AMD primitive in-use consumer version is EV6 in all AMD's K7 Processors. It is what allowed AMD K7s to out-perform equivalent Intel despite always with a lower bus speed disavantage than Intel hardware. It is also what made AMD's Dually more efficient and more Scalable than Intel's Dually.


PCI-e allowed "simultanenous data streams from multiple simultanenous data sources to multiple simultanenous destinations" enabling true parallel-processing and true multi-tasking. (CROSSBAR)

Instead of PCI classical - sequential one data stream at a time to one destination which actually allowed doing only one thing at a time.

It took Intel 4 years for PCI-e because Intel is forced to shift from Symmetric Processing toward AMD Distributed Processing technology since the K7 series.

Intel's northbridges and southbridges are no longer hubs, they are switches. Hubs are Time-share/Symmetric Processing devices, switches are Distributed Processing devices.

how's this for different and discriptive?.

not to mention simple.

 

[nein]

I prefer to read from another rather than reading my own writings.

 

[shadow_29]

well............bite me then

 

[Didou]

There is a feature called "Private Messaging". Feel free to use it instead of spreading a petty feud on the forums.

 

[shadow_29]

sorry, I should refrain myself from "petty feud" like this.