RTX 4000 series incoming? Nvidia says graphics card supply will improve in the second...

Dimitriid

Posts: 1,530   +2,993
Interesting. I was not aware that nVidia had enabled some "pro" features on consumer cards. I would be surprised, however, if they enabled full compute potential on consumer cards as they can charge substantially more money for compute cards made for HPC.
Yeah I think that move was aimed more at what I call the "Homelab" crowd of people but they understand is good practice: The same people that are interesting as hobbyist on recycled servers, raspberry pi clusters and gpu passthrough set ups on their home well, mostly have jobs on IT.

In fact I think in no small measure people like the homelab side of miniature enterprise environments and software as a way to practice and build up their resume on these subjects so they will be the ones eventually weighting in and calling the shots when companies purchase infrastructure and such.

So I don't think Nvidia means for people to fully use consumer cards for enterprise features, but it doesn't hurts than anyone with a Pascal era GPU or better can now actually play around Hyper V or ESXi or Proxmox set ups on their home and then go praise Nvidia products at work and just solidify their status as a now serious enterprise infrastructure provider.
 
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Neatfeatguy

Posts: 641   +1,131
After spending $800 on an RTX 3070 I don't think I can justify it again next time. I'll just stick to console gaming, though I will miss the bells and whistles of PC gaming

RTX 3070 is a solid card. I think it comes to double the performance of a GTX 980Ti and I ran one of those for 6+ years; gaming across 1080p through 5760x1080 resolutions. If you're not an eye candy wh0re, a decent GPU should last you a good 4+ years if you're not expecting to game on 4k. My 980Ti ran games well enough with settings adjustments on 1440p to give around 60fps.

Got the 980Ti in July of 2015, used it until August of 2021 - 73 months.
That comes out to $8.90 a month if you break down the cost over 73 months. Helluva good card, still works 1080p gaming well. The card is in the hands of someone else now for the past 6 months and hopefully is still going.

If DLSS remains a thing that's used in games as the years go on, a RTX card from this series may very well provide you a long time of gaming use. But, in the end it's all dependent on the user. Hopefully you won't feel so slated if you find yourself getting good use out of that 3070 for the next 4+ years.
 

Sausagemeat

Posts: 1,202   +1,059
I’m priced out. I play about 10 hours a week on average and mostly minecraft. I’m not spending thousands on a GPU for the odd AAA game I sink some time on.

But when TES VI launches, if MS haven’t ruined it I will probably want to buy new hardware. I guess itl be a prebuilt by then. I can’t see this industry getting cheaper anytime soon.
 

BadThad

Posts: 809   +944
Nothing is going to improve even if they make more chips. The market is well established now and businesses and scalpers have a system to generate $$$. As long as there's profit to be had, prices will be well above MSRP as that price is merely a suggestion.

Looks like I'll be using my $800 RX6800 for many more years as it suits my needs as a gamer well. I typically spent $150-200 on a card so $800+ was a stretch for me....BIG TIME. I had to take what I could get last year so I paid Microcenter their grossly inflated price. I'm sure they've enjoyed the extra profit and I don't see why they would stop. If you could buy a card for $200 and sell it for $800+, you're doing quite well.
 

brucek

Posts: 971   +1,447
"Why the sudden increase in GPU supply? The obvious answer would be the arrival of Ampere’s successor, codenamed Lovelace"

That's not an obvious answer to me, at all. If anything I'd imagine a new generation would increase demand from buyers while temporarily decreasing yield from the manufacturers as they switch from mature lines to new ones - so net result is buyers having even less chance of finding the card they want.

I see two ways perceived supply picks up:

1) Nividia jacks up the prices even more, to the point where the handful of people who want to pay say $2,500 for the card will find them readily available at that price;

2) Nvidia has secured additional fabrication capacity, either because an actual new facility came online or because someone else's contract ended and Nvidia won this round of bidding for that capacity (higher prices helps with that too.)
 

Dimitrios

Posts: 1,000   +802
Nothing is going to improve even if they make more chips. The market is well established now and businesses and scalpers have a system to generate $$$. As long as there's profit to be had, prices will be well above MSRP as that price is merely a suggestion.

Looks like I'll be using my $800 RX6800 for many more years as it suits my needs as a gamer well. I typically spent $150-200 on a card so $800+ was a stretch for me....BIG TIME. I had to take what I could get last year so I paid Microcenter their grossly inflated price. I'm sure they've enjoyed the extra profit and I don't see why they would stop. If you could buy a card for $200 and sell it for $800+, you're doing quite well.

Yup, they had a taste of it and prices will never be the same again.

I wish I bought one of those inflated cards during that time but I made a mistake hesitating and I'm so far and deep and just can't cower down with the super duper inflated prices now. I just can't sink that low. Have an old RX580 tuned to the limits. My dog managed to get into my room and rubbed against my new Ryzen build and my card turned Green while playing a game! Her weight pushed the cable into the wall bending the card lightly. (Knock on wood) still runs well, just had to pull it back a little lol!
 

Loli Pop Carbon

Posts: 24   +14
RTX 4090 will be at least $2000 (MSRP), so that means $3000-$3500 real price.
and later
RTX 4090 Ti for $2500 (MSRP), as in $3500-$4000 real price.

I expect the entire stack to go up in price by +$100 to +$500 (or more), depending on tier.

That means I'm stuck with 1080 Ti until who knows when. Not that I need to upgrade soon, but when the time comes, I'm not sure I could afford any GPU (xx70 or xx80 series) if this trend continues.

Maybe I could afford it, but my conscience just won't let me pay such a ridiculous amount for just a graphic card, ever.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 539   +970
RTX 3070 is a solid card. I think it comes to double the performance of a GTX 980Ti and I ran one of those for 6+ years; gaming across 1080p through 5760x1080 resolutions. If you're not an eye candy wh0re, a decent GPU should last you a good 4+ years if you're not expecting to game on 4k. My 980Ti ran games well enough with settings adjustments on 1440p to give around 60fps.

Got the 980Ti in July of 2015, used it until August of 2021 - 73 months.
That comes out to $8.90 a month if you break down the cost over 73 months. Helluva good card, still works 1080p gaming well. The card is in the hands of someone else now for the past 6 months and hopefully is still going.

If DLSS remains a thing that's used in games as the years go on, a RTX card from this series may very well provide you a long time of gaming use. But, in the end it's all dependent on the user. Hopefully you won't feel so slated if you find yourself getting good use out of that 3070 for the next 4+ years.
Unfortunately it's a solid card today and even that is debatable (what resolution, what games and what settings? Ultra + RT? NO!).

In 6 months with the next gen being out of the ordinary better (at least 2x) this entire generation (both Ampere and RDNA2, all tiers, not just 3070) will look like an expensive joke compared to Lovelace and RDNA3.

Sure next gen will be even more expensive, that will not change, but hey at least 2x performance will...

So 4 years holding of with the 3070 is gonna be loooooong in the tooth...
That means I'm stuck with 1080 Ti until who knows when. Not that I need to upgrade soon, but when the time comes, I'm not sure I could afford any GPU (xx70 or xx80 series) if this trend continues.

Maybe I could afford it, but my conscience just won't let me pay such a ridiculous amount for just a graphic card, ever.
I know what you mean, I won't pay more than $700 for a GPU and even that was too much for me 1 year ago, but today I'm not willing to go past that. I would prefer $500 for the performance I'm looking for. Maybe Lovelace and RDNA3 having 2x performance will actually make the $500-$700 range more appealing, I'm talking real shop prices.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 641   +1,131
Unfortunately it's a solid card today and even that is debatable (what resolution, what games and what settings? Ultra + RT? NO!).

In 6 months with the next gen being out of the ordinary better (at least 2x) this entire generation (both Ampere and RDNA2, all tiers, not just 3070) will look like an expensive joke compared to Lovelace and RDNA3.

Sure next gen will be even more expensive, that will not change, but hey at least 2x performance will...

So 4 years holding of with the 3070 is gonna be loooooong in the tooth...

You know for a fact that someone that purchased a 3070 won't have a solid gaming performance with it for multiple years because they can't max everything?

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Assuming people buy these cards (AMD or Nvidia) to game with a gimmick like raytracing is laughable. Neither company does it well, last gen or this gen. I personally feel that Nvidia is even worse at it because they have special, dedicated cores on their RTX cards to handle raytracing and the performance hit is still very significant. If next gen delivers on a much improved performance level, then maybe next gen might be the one that actually makes raytracing viable when gaming. I still think they're at least 2 generations away before we get to that point, but we wait and see.

We've seen no mention of next gen releases coming, only conjectures. However, if these rumors do hold truth and we see something come out at the end of the year, that doesn't mean all previous GPUs are instantly worthless. People will continue to use GTX 1080/1080Ti cards and continue to use the RTX 2070/2080/2080Ti cards and....surprise, surprise, the RTX 3xxx series.

If you're not comfortable with using a good GPU for multiple years, by all means, upgrade all the time. Good for you. Telling others a GPU can't be used for 4+ years, that's your opinion. Game how you like to game, let others game how they like to game.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 539   +970
You know for a fact that someone that purchased a 3070 won't have a solid gaming performance with it for multiple years because they can't max everything?

cc094200-8350-4fc0-9220-0e413a2c18af_text.gif


Assuming people buy these cards (AMD or Nvidia) to game with a gimmick like raytracing is laughable. Neither company does it well, last gen or this gen. I personally feel that Nvidia is even worse at it because they have special, dedicated cores on their RTX cards to handle raytracing and the performance hit is still very significant. If next gen delivers on a much improved performance level, then maybe next gen might be the one that actually makes raytracing viable when gaming. I still think they're at least 2 generations away before we get to that point, but we wait and see.

We've seen no mention of next gen releases coming, only conjectures. However, if these rumors do hold truth and we see something come out at the end of the year, that doesn't mean all previous GPUs are instantly worthless. People will continue to use GTX 1080/1080Ti cards and continue to use the RTX 2070/2080/2080Ti cards and....surprise, surprise, the RTX 3xxx series.

If you're not comfortable with using a good GPU for multiple years, by all means, upgrade all the time. Good for you. Telling others a GPU can't be used for 4+ years, that's your opinion. Game how you like to game, let others game how they like to game.
You're missing my point, or maybe I did not make myself clear enough...

It's not that people will NOT use older GPUs when next gen comes, that's absurd and I never said that, what I did say and now I'll try with more explanations, is that usually a gen to gen perf increase is about 30-40% and on a good case 50-60%, but if the rumors are true and there are zero reason at this point not to be, with so many leaks and the competition getting fiercer and fiercer, both Lovelace and RDNA3 will have at least 2x performance, that's +100%, not 40%, not 60%... but at least 100% more.

So it's precisely because of this huge leap in one generation (rarely seen) that all the other gens, including the current one will look silly compared to the next gen in both raster and RT performance.

And it's also because of this why RT will skyrocket in games present and much bigger user adoption too, in the next 2 years, let alone 4 years.

Current gen will get older faster than normally would. That's what I'm saying. And it's all thanks to fiercer competition between nvidia and AMD (Radeon coming back to fight) and we can soon add intel in the fight too, so expect even faster and higher advancement in GPUs going forward.

Do you see my point now? And why 4 years holding to a 3070 is way too optimistic, unless one can't afford to buy again, one should starting with next gen if the price is right for their budget, because the perf will be there for sure.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 641   +1,131
You're missing my point, or maybe I did not make myself clear enough...

It's not that people will NOT use older GPUs when next gen comes, that's absurd and I never said that, what I did say and now I'll try with more explanations, is that usually a gen to gen perf increase is about 30-40% and on a good case 50-60%, but if the rumors are true and there are zero reason at this point not to be, with so many leaks and the competition getting fiercer and fiercer, both Lovelace and RDNA3 will have at least 2x performance, that's +100%, not 40%, not 60%... but at least 100% more.

So it's precisely because of this huge leap in one generation (rarely seen) that all the other gens, including the current one will look silly compared to the next gen in both raster and RT performance.

And it's also because of this why RT will skyrocket in games present and much bigger user adoption too, in the next 2 years, let alone 4 years.

Current gen will get older faster than normally would. That's what I'm saying. And it's all thanks to fiercer competition between nvidia and AMD (Radeon coming back to fight) and we can soon add intel in the fight too, so expect even faster and higher advancement in GPUs going forward.

Do you see my point now? And why 4 years holding to a 3070 is way too optimistic, unless one can't afford to buy again, one should starting with next gen if the price is right for their budget, because the perf will be there for sure.
Still, you're unhappy with a 3070 - we get it.

You cannot dictate what others find appropriate in terms of games and performance they enjoy playing with.

Stop assuming, you look foolish. If you want to upgrade constantly because you enjoy the maxed out eye candy + RT, by all means, follow your heart. Stop telling others that their choice is bad and it won't be a good option in a year or two.

You remind me of the stuck up kids in my high school days; it was in a richer neighborhood, but my family wasn't rich. I got hand-me-downs from my older brother, my parents were divorced and I had been working jobs since I was 12 to help pay for things. People at high school were constantly flabbergasted that I didn't have the need to spend hundreds of dollars on a single pair of pants or buy every iteration of the new Michael Jordan's or Doc Martin's that hit the shelf. People tried to make fun of me because the car I had because it wasn't some BMW or Mercedes or Corvette....I had a junker of a car, but it got me from A to B and was reliable.

Just because you don't like it and think it's not viable to enjoy a GPU for more than a year or two doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Stop telling people what they they will enjoy.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 539   +970
Still, you're unhappy with a 3070 - we get it.

You cannot dictate what others find appropriate in terms of games and performance they enjoy playing with.

Stop assuming, you look foolish. If you want to upgrade constantly because you enjoy the maxed out eye candy + RT, by all means, follow your heart. Stop telling others that their choice is bad and it won't be a good option in a year or two.

You remind me of the stuck up kids in my high school days; it was in a richer neighborhood, but my family wasn't rich. I got hand-me-downs from my older brother, my parents were divorced and I had been working jobs since I was 12 to help pay for things. People at high school were constantly flabbergasted that I didn't have the need to spend hundreds of dollars on a single pair of pants or buy every iteration of the new Michael Jordan's or Doc Martin's that hit the shelf. People tried to make fun of me because the car I had because it wasn't some BMW or Mercedes or Corvette....I had a junker of a car, but it got me from A to B and was reliable.

Just because you don't like it and think it's not viable to enjoy a GPU for more than a year or two doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. Stop telling people what they they will enjoy.
Again you don't get me...

If it would be up to me, no, I would not want to upgrade every year or every 2 years. I would love to buy a $500 GPU to last me 4 years without needing to play on Medium-Low in the 4th year...

It's a conjuncture of reasons why this won't be possible: the poor performance gains we got in the past 2 generations while prices increased exponentially (unjustified by those mediocre perf gains) + the new tech in games that is not even working properly on the most expensive GPUs today...

They made this perfect storm for their own gains and we consumers are suffering from it while being caught in it. Long are the days when you could buy a GTX 1060 6GB and use it at 1080p for 4 years without downgrading settings or a GTX 1080Ti the same at 1440p or even 4k...

What we used to be able to do and squeeze the performance of a GPU 5-6 years ago, we will not be ably to do again or the same with a GPU (any GPU, any tier) that we buy today for the next 4 years, let alone more...

That's the sad part and I'm just trying to raise the alarm so people won't be naive into thinking that they can still do that successfully like they did before... Then it worked, now it won't.

So be happy with a 3070, but get used to the fact that you will play on Medium, or lower settings in 4 years. I would say in 2 years from now actually.

You may disagree with my prediction and I disagree with your optimism or nativity, so then let's agree to disagree and stop here.
 

mbk34

Posts: 236   +154
I had that one, sold it for $1300. Went fast once I posted it on amazon. It looked nice, but I already have my 3080.
I tried to help someone that may be in need on TPU and offered it there for $1100 (since it cost $900 after taxes + shipping), but no one took it. Sold it on amazon market instead.

Had a 3060Ti I used for a couple months, spent about $500 on it. Sold it for $900.

I can see why folks are grabbing up GPUs when they can and selling them off for more. So far I put an extra $600 (after amazon seller fees) into my pocket. I feel kind of bad ripping folks off, but at the same time if someone is willing to spend extra money to get a card and I'm putting some extra money into my pocket, I won't lose any sleep over it.

Which makes me want to sell more. I might just keep hitting up newegg shuffle and working on hitting up Micro Center again, see if I can't land a decently priced 3060Ti/3070/3080.
I honestly find it a bit sad that there are so many scalpers out there just like you.
 

pcnthuziast

Posts: 1,245   +1,011
If supply were the sole reason for increased prices, this would be noteworthy, but since supply has almost nothing to do with it, this is moot. If anything, as supply increases and demand is more fully realized in terms of how it relates to sales accross an increasingly diverse market spanning numerous demographics, the viability and profitability of ever increasing prices will only be solidified as completely and inexplicably justifiable.